WT Forums

Some very disturbing news has come out of the Iraq today some rear echelon personnel have been captured by the Iraqis it appears that they have been tortured and some executed. This is appalling I know the United States has not seek war criminals since the end of a the Second World War but this time we must demand that these individuals who have committed these war crimes to be turned over to us!
We must send a message that POW should be treated humanly and that they will be a price for those who disregard the rules of the Geneva Convention. I was totally disappointed that we did not demand the individuals that missed treated our POW in the first gulf war. Those who we have had hostility with since the Second World War have the ignored the Geneva Convention and have never paid the price for doing so it is time now to reverse this!

Let this be a lesson to all US military personnel.

DON'T SURRENDER.

I personally would rather go down with my rifle in my hand, but i guess that's just me...

"We shall leave no man behind"

Truer words have never been spoken. Iraq's upper echelon allready deserves to run the gauntlet like the Nazi Leaders did at the end of World War two.

My first thought after reading that was if we capture Qusay and/or Uday, to put the other foot to the other ribs, and have them beatdown close enough to Badghdad for the Iraqi's there to see.

As tempting as that would be. It would be a war crime...but thats why we want them alive, so they can be thrown in jail, and jumped while thier praying like Johnny Taliban was.

"Liberal bastards. I fart in thier general direction"

_________________

AFTER THE STORIES THOSE PILOTS TOLD FROM GW1,AINT NO WAY I WOULD SURRENDER!!!!!!

I AINT JOHN McAINE OR ANY OF THOSE OTHER HERO'S, I COULDNT LIVE WITH MYSELF IF I COULDNT HOLD OUT.

BUT WHAT THEY DID HERE THOSE"F-ING RAG'S" IS NOT FORGIVEABLE!!!!!!!!!
WE'LL FIND THEM,AND WHEN WE DO I'M SURE THEY'LL PUT UP "RESISTANCE"<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle> AND SOME GRUNTS ARE GOING TO DEAL WITH THEM

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>This is appalling I know the United States has not seek war criminals since the end of a the Second World War but this time we must demand that these individuals who have committed these war crimes to be turned over to us! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

We have been and the UN has been trying war criminals all through the Bosnian conflict, somalia, Afghanistan.

_________________
\"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. \"

George S. Patton

Im with snipe. Surrender is not in our blood.

However i also know that we cant pass judgement on ourtroops that were captured or "Executed." We dont know what took place with this engagement. And we cannot say that these men did not fight and resist. It may be a fact that our troops did resist, and that the Iraqis wanted payback.

I will say this. I have only respect for these men that chose to earn the right to wear the U.S. Uniform and proudly went to serve our nations call.

Everyone has a job to perform from in the service. To refer to these men as REMFs is a crock of shit and they deserve a hell of allot more respect!

_________________
\"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. \"

George S. Patton

Quote TheBigThug
“We have been and the UN has been trying war criminals all through the Bosnian conflict, somalia, Afghanistan.”

Sorry I did not think of that thank you for pointing it out. I guess the reason I did not think of this was because no American POW where in those actions. Somalia I guess does count but I do not think we ever got our hands on the Somalia’s which cause us so much trouble.
I did feel better when I heard President Bush say we will hold people to account for these crimes he is the first president to make a comment like this that I can remember.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Sorry I did not think of that thank you for pointing it out. I guess the reason I did not think of this was because no American POW where in those actions. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

There were 3 U.S. POWS in the Balkans Conflict. 3 U.S. Army soldiers patrolling the borders of Macedonia.

Warrant Officer Michael Durant In Somalia.

Countless engagements with NPA communist militia in the Phillipines.

U.S. Marines during the early Balkans campaigns attacked in macedonia.

Several Serbian leaders have been prosecuted for warcrimes. Several Somali Warlords as well.

There have been allot of U.S. Servicemen serving in UN Uniform that have been captured and held as prisoners throughout the U.N.s Existance.

Their was evan a Colonal held in Beruit and sadly executed later. and a few marines during that action that had been captured and executed.

Unfortunately not all events are publicised well in the U.S. I cant watch and search for the news for you.

At this time we are prosecuteing Terrorists involved in the U.S. Consulate bombings over seas, the U.S. Cole, The Twin Towers WTC. as well as several coalition members that are prosecuting other terrorists captured in their countries.

_________________
\"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. \"

George S. Patton

UN Is so jacked up that some members think that Henry Kissinger should be tried as a war criminal for bombing Hanoi, durring Operation Linebacker...........Hell with the paper tiger the U.N. is proving to be, its time we exact our own justice. If the U.N. is envolved it will be another fiasco.

If your not having fun, your not doing it right!

While we're on the subject, everyone write to Amnesty International and ask them what they think now of the treatment of Taliban prisoners. Poor babies, they didn't get their milk and cookies.


"See that green switch? Flip it down."

Is everyone seeing some of these guys family members claiming they were support personnel so they should not have been near the front. On family member state that the woman was just a cook and she should have been safe.

One mother stated her son joined for opportunity not to fight.

I understand the mothes' concerns for there children, the problem is the press believes this is true.

Big Thug, Sorry I was unaware of most of this I call myself a person who keeps up with most things but I missed most of this news. Thank you again for helping keep my facts straight.

You are definitely right about us not knowing the circumstances Mudd.

Perhaps they ran out of ammo, perhaps they were unconscious, wounded, etc, etc.

I just can't comprehend surrendering to the Iraqi's.

You know what is likely to happen, and it aint pleasant at all.

But unless we are there, we can't really say. I'm sure everything will come out eventually.

"We shall leave no man behind"

BY NO MEANS I'M I PASSING JUDGEMENT ON THEM,

THE PROBLEM IS NOW JUST GETTING THEM HOME IN ONE PIECE.

LETS FACE IT THE "UN" IS "UN-AMERICAN".WE'LL NEVER GET ANYTHING DONE THRU THEM AGAIN,LIKE WE EVER DID.

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Is everyone seeing some of these guys family members claiming they were support personnel so they should not have been near the front. On family member state that the woman was just a cook and she should have been safe.

One mother stated her son joined for opportunity not to fight.

I understand the mothes' concerns for there children, the problem is the press believes this is true.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

From what I understood, they <i>were</i> in the back. They got off the beaten path, realized they were in the wrong place, and turned around to see the Iraqis closing in. Our forces have been passing through a lot of land, planning to come back later and secure each town, so it may have been some of the implanted regulars coming out to surprise us from the rear. Maybe they could've fought, maybe not. They may not have been armed with much if they weren't expecting to encounter hostile forces.

However, the mom seems to be a little unclear on the concept. Her daughter is in hostile enemy territory. There is no "safe zone." Regardless of what she wrote home and told her parents to make them feel less worried.

"See that green switch? Flip it down."

Getting lost in the FEBA is not good.

Onward to Baghdad!!!

[quote]


Their was evan a Colonal held in Beruit and sadly executed later. and a few marines during that action that had been captured and executed.

Unfortunately not all events are publicised well in the U.S. I cant watch and search for the news for you.

------------

He was sliced and diced slowly too. Think it was Col. Buckley, USMC type at least. We still have 3 corporate type Mercs from Dyncorp being held in Colombia too.

The big problem in Iraq. We don't have enough troops and firepower. Add in LONG supply lines and unhappy locals.

The Baghdad 500 has turned into an ambush alley. This is a Rumsfeld designed campaign and he doesn't have a clue about logistics or ground tactics. Big hint was when we couldn't open up a Northern front from Turkey and they still went with shock & awe. It's turning into a big SNAFU. Another hint was the flak trap for the Apaches.

Jack

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The big problem in Iraq. We don't have enough troops and firepower. Add in LONG supply lines and unhappy locals.

The Baghdad 500 has turned into an ambush alley. This is a Rumsfeld designed campaign and he doesn't have a clue about logistics or ground tactics. Big hint was when we couldn't open up a Northern front from Turkey and they still went with shock & awe. It's turning into a big SNAFU. Another hint was the flak trap for the Apaches.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Plenty of troops, plenty of firepower. Supply lines might be long, but air power is going to cover that (as well as your lack of 'firepower' issue).

Rumsfeld DID NOT design the campaign. What is going on right now is the result of lessons learned from the last time we were there, and the fact that finally someone incorporated the basic tenets of a forward-thinking individual who was well ahead of his time. Rumsfeld knows enough to let the appropriate military leadership do the planning, target selection, etc. THOSE lessons were learned in Southeast Asia.

It's obvious from your comments you have no idea what "Shock and Awe" really is. Lately that phrase has been used more than a Phillipino whore, and no explanation has been given in the media. The media likes it because it has a nice sound to it, and as superficial as the media is, they are willing to take it at face value. The term is a misnomer for what is really going on. When we look back on this war in 10, 20, even 50 years from now, we are going to realize that it was a revolution in warfare.

What you need to do is a Google search for "John Boyd Shock and Awe". The man was a genius who was obviously 30+ years ahead of his time. He revolutionized the Marine Corps style of waging war in the early 80s, and the Army has begun to follow the doctrine as well. Everything you see on the boob tube is a result of people finally implementing what to him was common sense. Do your homework, instead of remaining glued to CNN, or Al Jazeera, or whoever else.

I apologize if I come off sounding pissed, but I am, for a lot of reasons. In the words of R. Lee Ermey, don't "...open your alligator sized mouth before engaging your humming-bird sized brain." The only way to increase the size of that brain is to do some real homework on the tragic, historic, and hopefully liberating event taking place in Iraq right now.

I continue to pray for peace, the Palestinians and Israelis, the people of Afghanistan, the Iraqis (both military and civilian), our troops, their families, our leadership, French president Chirac, Russian President Putin, and the Pope. I'm sure several of you are going to wonder about the Pope. Well, if John Paul II can't see the parallels between the Catholic Church before and during World War II, and what is currently happening under Saddam Hussein's regime, then the good Lord should call him home and get someone less senile running the ship.

Maneuver warfare is key.




ATTACK!

Edited by - air2mud on Mar 26 2003 06:26 AM

[quote]
[. Do your homework, instead of remaining glued to CNN, or Al Jazeera, or whoever else.

I apologize if I come off sounding pissed, --------

Lots of assumptions there. I hope you understand DMMH and a few other items that are required to keep aircraft flying. Or how sand eats up rotors and turbines.

Any bets I can't get inside of your OODA cycle?

Jack

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Lots of assumptions there. I hope you understand DMMH and a few other items that are required to keep aircraft flying. Or how sand eats up rotors and turbines.

Any bets I can't get inside of your OODA cycle?

Jack
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Your original post stated that it was a Rumsfeld-designed campaign, and as I said, I have to disagree. If you want to talk to the political side of that argument, Vice President Cheney was/is a huge supporter of John Boyd's theories. I also believe the administration is smart enough to let us do our thing the best way we know how.

I am very well aware of maintenance issues during surge ops...funny you should mention it, I was talking with our guys about it today.

With the cooperation of the ANG Hog units over there, knowing how outstanding our unit's maintainers are, and from what I've heard from the field so far, current and planned maintenance (at least for the Hogs) is going well.

Step inside my OODA. Once I Observe you, I will skip right to Act, circle the Hogs, and put an AIM-9 up your tailpipe!




ATTACK!

The main problem is the fact that the 4th ID was politicly taken from the fight.

That doesn't happen...none of the LOC difficulties happen.

As it is the Iraqi army is counterattacking in two columns- one from Baghdad 1000 vehicles strong, and one from Basra 120 vehicles strong.

I expect that by nightfall EST very few of them will remain.

I have never seen an entire corps commit suicide before.

Onward to Baghdad!!!

[quote]
.

I expect that by nightfall EST very few of them will remain.

I have never seen an entire corps commit suicide before.

Onward to Baghdad!!!
----------------------

Funny part is we haven't seen much video of tank plinking. 2 nasty days of sandstorms have grounded the CAS. We know with our PGMs, large columns of tracks should be an easy target.

Besides the sandstorms am seeing some nasty mud that is stopping our vehicles.

Jack