WT Forums

Home | WT Forums | Hogpedia | Warthog blog | Hosted sites
It is currently 07 Apr 2025, 02:01

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 11:46 
Offline

Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 08:13
Posts: 454
In addition to the article here's a good (but lengthy) breakdown of the budgtet: http://64.177.207.201/pages/8_460.html

*

Authorization Act Pluses Up Pay, Creates New Civilian System
By Jim Garamone
American Forces Press Service


All service members receive at least a 3.7 percent pay raise. Certain mid-level noncommissioned officers, petty officers and officers will receive targeted pay raises of up to 6.25 percent. The average pay raise is 4.15 percent.

The bill continues the "buy-down" of out-of-pocket expenses by increasing the Basic Allowance for Housing. Currently service members living "on the economy" pay 7.5 percent of the housing costs out-of-pocket. That percentage will drop to 3.5 in fiscal 2004, and be eliminated in fiscal 2005.

The bill also continues hostile-fire or imminent-danger pay at the current level of $225 per month through Dec. 31, 2004. It continues separation pay at the current level of $250 per month for the same period.

The bill authorizes an increase in the Army's end-strength. The administration did not request this plus-up. Congress authorized an increase of 2,400 in the active duty Army and an increase of 1,779 for full-time Army reserve component soldiers on active duty.

The bill gives reservists and their families more access to Tricare – the military's health care program.

The bill authorizes a phased-in concurrent receipt program for military retirees. The current law requires that retired pay be reduced by the amount of any VA disability payment. Last year, the fiscal 2003 authorization act instituted a program allowing retirees who were awarded the Purple Heart and have disabilities rated at 60 percent or higher to keep both retirement pay and disability compensation.

Effective Jan. 1, 2004, all 20-year retirees with a Purple Heart or a combat- related disability will be eligible for concurrent receipt. The bill authorizes a phased-in full concurrent receipt program over the next 10 years for retirees who are most severely disabled (50 percent or more).

Congress gave the administration most of what it asked for in the new National Security Personnel System. The system, a centerpiece to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's transformation strategy, is designed to increase flexibility and allow supervisors the ability to manage more effectively.

He said the new system will give civilians the freedom that they will need to do their jobs. "Each of you has chosen to serve our national defense because you want to contribute to the peace and security of this country," he said. "This legislation will help you transform the department so DoD's great civilian workforce can be as agile, flexible and innovative as the forces you support in the field."

Other important parts of the act deal with environmental regulations. DoD asked for relief from some aspects of the Marine Mammal Protections Act and the Endangered Species Act. The bill allows DoD greater latitude and will give soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines the ability to participate in realistic training.

Overall funding levels are $74.2 billion for procurement, $114.4 billion for operations and maintenance and $63.4 billion for research, development, testing and evaluation.

On the equipment side, the bill authorizes $1.7 billion in research and development funding for the Army's Future Combat Systems program. It allots $2.9 billion for 42 Navy and Marine Corps' FA-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft. The bill has $3.5 billion for 22 Air Force F/A-22 Raptor aircraft, and $4.4 billion for the multiservice Joint Strike Fighter program.

The bill forged a compromise on aerial refueling. The Air Force proposed leasing 100 Boeing 767 aircraft as tankers. The compromise calls for the service to lease the first 20 aircraft and buy the rest outright. Officials estimate this will save the American taxpayers $4 billion over the life of the aircraft. The compromise allows the Air Force to begin replacing the aging fleet of KC-135 and KC-10 aircraft. The first KC-767s will be delivered in fiscal 2006.

The bill addresses the gap in strategic airlift by putting $2 billion toward delivery of 11 C-17 Globemaster III aircraft.

The V-22 Osprey program receives $872.2 million for continued development, including nine aircraft for the Marine Corps and two for the Air Force.

Again in fiscal 2004, unmanned aerial vehicle programs are doing well. The Air Force Global Hawk is slated for $40.2 million, while the UAV receives $211.6 million for 16 systems. Congress included an additional $18 million in the request for a turboprop version of the Predator.

The Army's Shadow Tactical UAV will receive $73.8 million for eight systems, and an additional $12.4 million for continued research.

In shipbuilding, $1.2 billion is slated for advanced procurement of the CVN-21 next-generation aircraft carrier. Full funding for the carrier is planned by fiscal 2007, but the ship will not join the fleet until 2013.

The budget also puts aside $1 billion for continued research for the DD(X) – an experimental warship that will be the test bed for the Littoral Combat Ship and the future cruiser.

The bill authorizes $3.2 billion for three more Arleigh Burke-class destroyers and $1.2 billion for another LPD-17 San Antonio-class ship.

The authorization bill sets aside $1.5 billion for another Virginia-class attack submarine and $1 billion for another boat in fiscal 2005.

Edited by - ViperTTB on Nov 24 2003 11:23 AM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 12:34 
"It allots $2.9 billion for 42 Navy and Marine Corps' FA-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft."

That works out to 69+ million each for the F-18E/F.

NOTE: The USMC is not a participant in the F-18E/F program.

"The bill has $3.5 billion for 22 Air Force F/A-22 Raptor aircraft"

$159 million each. Ouch.

The delivery of these 22 aircraft should guarantee the F-22 program survives and that the Raptor will see service.

"The V-22 Osprey program receives $872.2 million for continued development, including nine aircraft for the Marine Corps and two for the Air Force."

That would be $79,290,000 EACH...or 10 million MORE per aircraft than the F-18E/F.

SOMEONE PLEASE CANCEL THIS GODDAMNED OVERPRICED DEATH TRAP!



<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>

Edited by - m21 sniper on Nov 24 2003 11:35 AM


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 14:12 
Offline
WT Game Warden
User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2003, 08:32
Posts: 1097
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
"The V-22 Osprey program receives $872.2 million for continued development, including nine aircraft for the Marine Corps and two for the Air Force."

That would be $79,290,000 EACH...or 10 million MORE per aircraft than the F-18E/F.

SOMEONE PLEASE CANCEL THIS GODDAMNED OVERPRICED DEATH TRAP!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>And while your at it cancel Stryker too.

Overkill??? I'd kill a fly with a howitzer if I had one.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 14:21 
Offline

Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 08:13
Posts: 454
Snip:

It's worse. The $872 million is just for the 9 Marine (Navy Budget) V-22's. An additional $233 million is in the budget for the 2 Air Force V-22's, so the V-22 costs around $100 million per unit.

Some general notes based on the budget proposed by DOD (not all of it was passed. Some was increased):

Army Aircraft Procurement ($2 billion)
- $500 million is going toward CH-47 Mods
- $760 million for the Longbow
-$140 million for UH-60 Mods
- $139 million for 10 UH-60;Increasd to $210 million and 17 by Cong.
- $46 million for the Kiowa Warrior
-$71 million for "Airborne Avionics"
-$60 million for "Airborne Digitization"

Army Missile Procurement ($1.5 billion)
- $133 million for the Javelin
- $43 million for Line-of-sight Anti-tank system
- $561 million for the Patriot
- $2.9 million for Stinger
- $8 million for surface-launched AMRAAM System
- $10 million for TOW-2
- $107 million for MLRS
- $143 million for HIMARS
- $212 million for Patriot mods
- $50 million for spare parts

Army Weapons and Vehicles Procurement ($1.6 billion)
- $955 million for Stryker vehicles to equip a Stryker brigade
- $133 million for Bradley Sustainment
- $286 million for Abrams Mods
- $93 million for Abrams Upgrade Program
- $16 million for 1,480 M240 guns
- $10 million for 59 mortars
- $9 milloin for 600 XM107 Sniper Rifles
- $9 million for 9,000 M4 Carbines
- $5 million for 155mm Light Howitzer

Army Ammunition Procurement ($1.3 billion)
Army Tactical/Support Vehicles Procurement ($788 million)
Army Communications Equipment Procurement ($2.3 billion)
Army "Other Procurement" ($1 billion)
- $60 million for Night Vision Goggles

Navy Aircraft Procurement ($9 billion)
- $12.5 million for AV-8 Harriers
- $2.9 billion for 42 F/A-18E/F's
- $833 million for 9 V-22's
- $336 million for 13 MH-60S's
- $352 million for 6 MH-60R's
- $211 million for 2 E-2C's
- $335 million for F/A-18 Mods
- $207 million for EA-6 Mods
- $95 million for P-3 Orions Mods
- $81 million for H-46 Mods
- $43 million for E-2 Mods

Navy Weapons Procurement ($2 billion)
- $675 million for 12 Trident II Missiles
- $676 million for Missile Industrial Facilities
- $1 billion for "Other Missiles" (TLAM, AMRAAM, Sidewinder, HARM et)
Including the following new procurements: 53 AMRAAM; 167
Sidwinders; 429 JSOW; 84 SLAMER; 75 Standard Missiles; 90 RAM.
- $163 million for Torpoedos

Navy Ammunition Procurement ($922 million)
- $277 million for 12,000 JDAM's
- $232 million for Marine Corps ammunition

Navy Shipbuiding Procurement ($11 billion)
- $1.2 billion for Carrier Replacement Program
- $1.5 billion for 1 Virginia-class submarine
- $1 billion for Virginia-class submarine Advanced Procurement
- $930 million for 2 SSGN conversions
- $194 million for Cruiser Conversion
- $400 million for CVN Refueling Overhaul
- $160 million for SSN Refueling Overhaul
- $3 billion for 3 DDG-51's
- $335 million for LHD-1
- $1.2 billion for LPD-17
- $1 billion for Craft (3 LCAC; etc)

Navy "Other Procurement" - $5 billion
- $2 billion for Communication and Electronic Equipment

Department of the Navy - Marine Corps Procurement ($1 billion)
- $97 million for AAAV
- $112 million for Light-weight 155mm Howitzer
- $24 million for Night Vision Equipment

Air Force Aircraft Procurement ($12 billion)
- $3.7 billion for 22 F/A-22's
- $500 million F/A-22 Advanced Procurement
- $2 billoin for 11 C-17's
- $500 million for C-17 Advanced Procurement
- $336 million for 5 C-130J's
- $217 million for 2 V-22's
- $77 million for B-2A Mods
- $91 million for B-1B Mods
- $61 million for B-52 Mods
- $17 million for F-117 Mods
- $200 million for F-15 Mods
- $300 million for F-16 Mods
- $20 million for A-10 Mods
- $92 million for C-5 Mods
- $42 million for C-17 Mods
- $20 million for KC-10 Mods
- $200 million for C-130 Mods
- $50 million for E-3 Mods
- $40 million for H-60 Mods
- $10 million for Predator Mods
- $20 million for E-8 Mods
- $100 million for KC-135 Mods

Air Force Ammunition ($1.2 billion)
- 386 Aim-9X; 325 JSOW; 250 JASSM; 201 AMRAAM including within $386 million for "Other Missiles"
- $32 million for GPS

Air Force Other Procurement ($11 billion)
- $9 billion for Base Maintenance and Support Equipment
- $2 billion for Electronic and Telecom Equipment

Defense-Wide Procurement ($4 billion)



Edited by - ViperTTB on Nov 24 2003 3:09 PM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 14:35 
Offline

Joined: 10 Mar 2003, 14:49
Posts: 426
[quote]

- $352 million for 6 MH-60R's
- $211 million for 2 E-2C's
-----------

Wow, these prices are staggering. Nearly 60 million a pop for MH-60s and 105 million a pop for E-2s for the digital goodies. Not like the airframe has changed much in the last 30 odd years.

That chopper down in Afghan was a MH-53. Another pricey asset down for the count.

Ain't nothing cheap anymore in weapons and they still don't have body armor for all of the troops in Iraq yet.

Those J model Hercs are damn pricey and have serious problems. Props are hosed up and software needs modding.

Jack


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 14:58 
"It's worse. The $872 million is just for the 9 Marine (Navy Budget) V-22's. An additional $233 million is in the budget for the 2 Air Force V-22's, so the V-22 costs around $100 million per unit. "

LOL, thanx for making me feel better. ;)

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 15:07 
Offline

Joined: 23 Oct 2002, 20:45
Posts: 2802
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>. Congress included an additional $18 million in the request for a turboprop version of the Predator <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Predator was designed and built outside the normal acquisition procedures, as an experiment. That experiment turned out a system that the Air Force wanted for combat use.

Since the experimental development began in 1994, We’ve upgraded engines, we’ve upgraded sensors, we’ve done a lot of work. I think Predator proved its case in Kosovo, Afghanistan, OIF. I think if you spoke to the regional commanders, They would tell you that they thought it was a useful capability.

Air Force likes the Predator. Although it was never declared operational, it is being used as an operational system, because it works. You can only expect the Predator to function within certain parameters. Even though the system has bugs, the Air Force has few other options. Otherwise, you won’t have the capability at all.

UAVs get relatively little funding, compared to manned aircraft programs. The worst thing that happens with UAVs is that people ask them to do a lot, and they are asked to do more and more. The Predator was not designed to be armed, but nevertheless we are equiping and deploying them with Hellfire missiles.

After Desert Storm, for example, the Pentagon realized it needed more reconnaissance systems. That was 13 years ago, and they are still not doing anything about it. The F-22, the Joint Strike Fighter, those are the top of the list—UAVs are only the bottom of the system.

To be able to mount two Hellfire missiles per aircraft, the wings had to be modified.

The UCAV Concept testing had two phases. One focused on safely launching a Hellfire missile from a low altitude and hitting a target. The second phase was about engaging targets from altitudes as high as 15,000 feet. However, portions of the second phase have not been completed yet. The plan was to try to hit moving targets, but the Air Force ran out of money before they could accomplish that part of the test.

During the Hellfire tests, there were concerns about the 100-pound load and how it would affect the aircraft. We did reduce endurance by a couple of hours because of the drag. We also dissembled a wing to see how much fracturing we had, and we didn’t have that much. In turn we completely redesigned the wings. Not bad for a composite aircraft.

We are now developing Predator B, a turbo-prop system that, will have 50 percent more payload capacity, an endurance for up to 24 hours and speeds over 220 knots operating at altitudes of 45,000 feet.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 15:52 
Offline
WT Game Warden
User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2003, 08:32
Posts: 1097
Snipe: as for feeling better you must not have read down this far
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>$955 million for Stryker vehicles to equip a Stryker brigade<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Overkill??? I'd kill a fly with a howitzer if I had one.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 17:00 
Offline

Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 08:13
Posts: 454
Those expensive H-60R's are going to take on the ASW mission for carriers when the S-3 is retired (First, the CVW's will reduce their squadron of S-3's from 8 to 6). Variants of the Super Hornet will take on the tanker mission


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 19:57 
Offline

Joined: 10 Mar 2003, 14:49
Posts: 426
[quote]
We also dissembled a wing to see how much fracturing we had, and we didn’t have that much. In turn we completely redesigned the wings. Not bad for a composite aircraft.

-------

Since I fly a composite. Just go to the Guru, Burt Rutan. He has the knowledge power.

That a turboprop or a turboed recip? I have read of some far out Rotax motors with some serious turbos on it. 914 series ain't bad on the Rotax, dude at my airport has one on a damn autogyro. Worked on it a tad. It needs some choke when cold to start. This is an older design auto. Front motor vice a pusher and fully enclosed cockpit. Nice performer. He did land one day with his brakes on and ate the prop and rotors. Engine was fine. Lil pricey mistake without blood. Moi was on the prop turn to ensure it all worked and torqued right. It worked and that old Rotax has some power.

Jack


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 21:21 
"$955 million for Stryker vehicles to equip a Stryker brigade"

Gee, thanx Stinger, now i feel even happier. ;)

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 22:28 
Offline

Joined: 05 Oct 2002, 14:22
Posts: 5353
Location: Missouri
isnt there a temperature problem with Hellfires at high altitudes?

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2003, 23:06 
IR seekers usually work better at altitude, but SALH seekers do not because of cloud cover, etc.

That was the main drawback of the Copperhead PGP.

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2003, 07:35 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 17 Jun 2002, 10:29
Posts: 5935
Location: S of St Louis but in IL
The bill also autorized the National Imagery and Mapping Agency (NIMA) to change it's name to the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA). <font size=1>woopee</font id=size1>

Hajji, you can run, but why die tired?

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2003, 10:02 
I remember you mentioning that in St Louie.

LOL, at least you'll get new business cards now. ;)

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2003, 10:57 
Offline

Joined: 05 Oct 2002, 14:22
Posts: 5353
Location: Missouri
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>IR seekers usually work better at altitude, but SALH seekers do not because of cloud cover, etc <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

no this was some problem with the high altitude temp themselves, and the fact Hellfire was designed to work in the warmer lower atmosphere, wasnt a prob till they started hanging them on Predator.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2003, 11:40 
Hmmm, never heard of this problem.

When the Hellfire is fired in ballistic trajectory mode it gets pretty high. I'd have thought as high as pred normally operates, but i guess not.

Wonder if the Brits have the same problem with the Brimstone they use on fixed wing fighters. It's basicly a modified Hellfire IIRC.

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2003, 04:16 
Lesson one my young and eager friend...

If it is guided, it's a missile. ;)



<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2003, 12:19 
Offline

Joined: 05 Oct 2002, 14:22
Posts: 5353
Location: Missouri
uht oh, uht oh ROFL, ANYTHING hurled at an enemy is a missle including rocks and sticks lol. But yeah generally a missle is guided and a rocket is not. But what about the "moon rockets" which took our Astronauts to the moon? They were guided right? (ok just barely lol GOD how did they do it with the puters of the day).

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group