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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2004, 08:58 
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Ok guys, Im having a heated argument with some Active duty army guys that are being staunch supporters of John Kerry. How possible i have no clue.

The latest argument is over the Swift Boat association Movie.

Throw me all the links you know that expose Kerry's flawed leadership and false Medals that took place during his service in Vietnam.



"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2004, 09:17 
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mudd go to world net daily they have it. I tried to post link to movie earlier didnt take I guess.


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2004, 10:30 
Did you know that J Kerry is the ONLY Swift boat captain that did NOT finish his tour of duty?(This of course excepting those who were killed).

That new commercial comes out today with all his fellow vets dissing him. That ought to do it. :P

Try also here: http://p074.ezboard.com/fhistorypolitic ... s68862frm8
(EzBoard, must be registered)

All kinds of anti-kerry articles posted there. And also here:

http://worldaffairsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?f=41



"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2004, 10:31 
Here's the latest Drudge report on the new Kerry book by his swift boat veterans:

Drudge reports on anti-kerry book

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE AUG 03, 2004 21:35:02 ET XXXXX

BOOK CLAIMS KERRY WAR 'FABRICATIONS'

**Exclusive**

A veterans group seeking to deeply discredit Democrat John Kerry's military service will charge in the new bombshell book UNFIT FOR COMMAND:

# Two of John Kerry's three Purple Heart decorations resulted from self-inflicted wounds, not suffered under enemy fire.

# All three of Kerry's Purple Hearts were for minor injuries, not requiring a single hour of hospitalization.

# A "fanny wound" was the highlight of Kerry's much touted "no man left behind" Bronze Star.

# Kerry turned the tragic death of a father and small child in a Vietnamese fishing boat into an act of "heroism" by filing a false report on the incident.

# Kerry entered an abandoned Vietnamese village and slaughtered the domestic animals owned by the civilians and burned down their homes with his Zippo lighter.

# Kerry's reckless behavior convinced his colleagues that he had to go -- becoming the only Swift Boat veteran to serve only four months.

The Kerry campaign is planning to vigorously counter the charges and will accuse the veteran's groups of being well-financed by a top Bush donor from Texas, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

"They hired a goddamn private investigator to dig up trash!" charged a top Kerry adviser traveling with the senator late Tuesday. "This is pay for play, and the dirtiest of all dirty tricks ever played on a candidate for the presidency. How low can they go?"

Kerry supporters are comparing the effort by the veterans to the Arkansas State troopers tell-all against Bill Clinton.

UNFIT FOR COMMAND will not be released until August 15.

The names. The details. All on the record.

Developing..

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2004, 17:22 
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I WAS WATCHING THE NEWS AND THEY TALKED ABOUT THIS AD, PUT OUT BY THESE "SWIFTBOAT VETS' 2 QUESTIONS

1. WHY IS SEN McCAINE CONDEMNING IT? AND HE ALSO IS CALLING ON THE WHITE HOUSE TO CONDEMN IT
2. WHY IS THE WHITE HOUSE AFTER McCAINES ATTACK ON IT SAYING ITS NOT OUR AD AND WE DONT CONTROL WHAT IS SAID AND WE DONT DISAGREE WITH SEN KERRY'S SERVICE OR MILITARY RECORDS?

YOU KNOW ME, MONEY TALKS AND BS JUST PILES UP

" The nation that will insist in drawing a board line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards" --SIR WILLIAM BUTLER

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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 05:04 
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Take a look at this site...

http://www.swiftvets.com/

Senator John Kerry has made his 4-month combat tour in Vietnam the centerpiece of his bid for the Presidency. His campaign jets a handful of veterans around the country, and trots them out at public appearances to sing his praises. John Kerry wants us to believe that these men represent all those he calls his "band of brothers."


But most combat veterans who served with John Kerry in Vietnam see him in a very different light.
.


(Touch the photo to see which Swift officers support John Kerry, or click it to read more)

The purpose of this photo is to correct the misleading use of our
images -- against our will -- to further John Kerry's campaign.
.
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has been formed to counter the false "war crimes" charges John Kerry repeatedly made against Vietnam veterans who served in our units and elsewhere, and to accurately portray Kerry's brief tour in Vietnam as a junior grade Lieutenant. We speak from personal experience -- our group includes men who served beside Kerry in combat as well as his commanders. Though we come from different backgrounds and hold varying political opinions, we agree on one thing: John Kerry misrepresented his record and ours in Vietnam and therefore exhibits serious flaws in character and lacks the potential to lead.

We regret the need to do this. Most Swift boat veterans would like nothing better than to support one of our own for America's highest office, regardless of whether he was running as a Democrat or a Republican. However, Kerry's phony war crimes charges, his exaggerated claims about his own service in Vietnam, and his deliberate misrepresentation of the nature and effectiveness of Swift boat operations compels us to step forward.

For more than thirty years, most Vietnam veterans kept silent as we were maligned as misfits, addicts, and baby killers. Now that a key creator of that poisonous image is seeking the Presidency we have resolved to end our silence.


The time has come to set the record straight.

"Live every day like it's the last, 'cause one day you're gonna be right!" Ray Charles (6/10/04 was the day)

Edited by - 30mike-mike on Aug 06 2004 06:46 AM

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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 07:21 
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THE LINK DIDNT WORK BUT,I READ THE THREAD 30MM
BUT,

IT STILL DOESNT ANSWER THE 2 QUESTIONS ABOVE?

" The nation that will insist in drawing a board line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards" --SIR WILLIAM BUTLER

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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 07:45 
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Try it now!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Wasn't meant to answer those specific questions, Goose, just more fuel for the fire!

"Live every day like it's the last, 'cause one day you're gonna be right!" Ray Charles (6/10/04 was the day)

Edited by - 30mike-mike on Aug 06 2004 06:47 AM

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 08:01 
McCain looks like the good guy for condemning it. He's not running for anything, it doesn't hurt him to take the high ground, in fact it probably slightly enhances his overall reputation. "See, McCain isn't partisan".

Yeah, right. He's a politician too.

The white house is saying it's not their ad Goose because........It's not their ad.

Pretty simple.

And what's with putting 'swiftboat vets' in quotations? These guys all served in Kerry's Swiftboat squadron. Some of them have won multiple decorations for bravery in combat.

It seems to me that when that many guys from your old unit come out against you, that there is some fire behind all the smoke.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 08:02 
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I WENT TO THE SITE, STILL HE SAID,SHE SAID,



" The nation that will insist in drawing a board line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards" --SIR WILLIAM BUTLER

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 08:04 
He said-she said from 20 guys that were there with Kerry.

That's an awful lot of he said she said, eh?

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 08:20 
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/ ... index.html

I DONT LIKE CNN,BUT COULDNT FIND ANYTHING RIGHT OFF THE BAT ON THIS THAT STARTS TO TALK ABOUT THE STORY.

BUT NOW THE 13 GUYS WHO SAY HE IS " WAS A HERO" ARE LIARS? OR MISLEAD?
OR THE GUYS WHO SAY KERRY IS "UNFIT" ARE REALLY IN THE POCKETS OF THE RNC? OR AFTER 30+ PLUS YEARS JUST NOW GOT AROUND TO LAUNCHING A FULL SCALE ATTACK ON HIS WAR RECORD? WHERE HAS THE ADS BEEN BEFORE THAT?
BEING A SEN. FROM MASS. AINT IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO STOP?

I AINT ATTACKING ANYONES RECORD,AND GOING TO POST ALL THE "BUSH BASHING SITES" WHO ATTACK HIS RECORD IN THE TEXAS GUARD.

THIS SHOULD BE A NETURAL AREA FOR US, PLENTY OF OTHER THINGS TO PICK APART

THATS JUST MHO

I'LL BE BACK LATER ON TODAY

" The nation that will insist in drawing a board line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards" --SIR WILLIAM BUTLER<font size=6></font id=size6>

Edited by - sgtgoose1 on Aug 06 2004 07:22 AM

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 08:48 
<img src="http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/Swift.jpg" border=0>

Kerry is pictured here with the men who oppose him now.

Kerry has been opposed by many members of this group since he returned in 1971 and began calling the swiftboat vets war criminals.

He was rebutted by swift boat vets then, and many of the same swift boat vets are now coming out against him again.

Kerry claims in his own words to have participated in war crimes. I don't want a commander in chief who acknowledges to have commited war crimes- do you?

Kerry would also be the first president in the history of the US that is considered a national hero by the ENEMY we fought.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 08:50 
Did you see what the surgeon that treated him for his first purple heart said?

"Kerry doesn't deserve his first purple heart. I know, i'm the doctor that treated him".

The wound has been described by that doctor as a fingernail scratch.

3 purple hearts, not a single hour in the hospital.

Wow.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 09:55 
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I'm with ya snipe. Goose, I believe a big part of the reason these guys, not necessarily the whole reason, is that Mr. heinz has touting his record in Vietnam and using photos that also have these men in them. Being a resident of Taxachusetts I can say that I have no recollection of Mr. heinz using his war record in such a manner to run for senate.
These men obviously feel that his use of photographs that show them with him presents a false endorsement. If suddenly 13 of your comerades from your days in Desert Storm called you out if you were running for office, would'nt that lead you to believe that there was indeed something to be looked at. Perhaps you should go out of the way in such an enourmous undertaking such as the presidency, to ensure that you showed only those people that support you now?
I know that I would be damn sure that if I were in the public eye like a presidential candidate, I would go out of the way to have at least a couple of my volunteers, out of the thousands I have, find out who supported me now.
Quite simply, these guys feel passionately enough about their own reputations, to make sure he does not bring any of them down with his.

Smitty


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 11:22 
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BACK,

I RESPECT YOUR VIEWS, I'M JUST TOTALLY SURE THERES NOT A ANOTHER MOTIVE,ON BOTHSIDES OF THIS ISSUE

" The nation that will insist in drawing a board line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards" --SIR WILLIAM BUTLER

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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 11:50 
Many of the men pictured in the photo above sued Kerry in federal court to prevent his campaign from using them in Kerry's ads.

Kerry has therefore been forced to stop using that picture.

Goose, you're hooked up with the VA: Have you EVER seen a soldier with three purple hearts that did not spend a single hour in the hospital for his wounds?

Ever even heard of one?

Kerry has admitted to commiting war-crimes. Kerry is now accused by this same group of commiting specific war crimes- the murder of a young unarmed boy, the torching of a village, and the indiscriminite firing upon of unarmed vietnamese. So when Kerry admits it, and when a group of decorated veterans provide the details, why is that hard to believe? He SAID he did it, remember? These guys are merely filling in the blanks that Kerry left out.

Kerry volunteered for swift boat duty before they were commited to vietnam- before anyone knew they would be commited to vietnam.
Every other swift boat captain that served in Vietnam who was not killed finished his tour. Every one.

Every one but Kerry.

Kerry would take his men back out into the field, into hostile territory, so that he could re-enact battle scenes on film. Who does that Goose? Who? Who risks their men's lives to go back out and make a movie that makes them look good? A movie that all of a sudden opens the DNC convention when Kerry is running for president.
Would you risk your men's lives to do that? Me either.

Kerry is considered by the Vietnamese communists to be a national war hero. His photo resides in a place of honor in the Vietnamese victory museum. The CO of the NV Army has specificly named Kerry himself as instrumental to the North's victory.

Do we need a man like that as commander in chief? Do we want a man like that as commander in chief?

Even if ALL of the rest is utter lies(don't count on it), that one factor alone should be enough that no vet who's ever served should ever even consider voting for the man.

And one word on Bush's service if i may. Since when is being a fighter pilot tasked with the defense of CONUS during the cold war either A: A safe job, or B: a rear echelon job?

Bush's squadron could've been called to action in Nam(some NG F-106 sqdrns were), and if the Reds had attacked he'd have been at the tip of the spear to prevent the nuclear destruction of America. How is any of that dishonorable service?

YES, there is a period of time that can not be accounted for, so PERHAPS Bush was AWOL for a time, but i think it rather more likely that because of political connections he got a wink and a nod from the Wing King and was allowed to miss guard drills. Fair? No.
Dishonorable? No, not dishonorable either.

Obviously Bush was no model soldier, but i've yet to hear a single former bush miltary colleague come out and blast him.

Kerry now has over 300 such former comrades in arms doing just that.

If 300 of your old military colleagues came out and blasted you, i wouldn't vote for you either Goose- as i'm sure you can understand.





"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2004, 16:55 
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SNIPE,
WHAT I'M SHOWING IS THERE IS ALWAYS 2 SIDES TO THE STORY
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/ ... index.html

I DONT DISAGREE WITH ALOT OF WHAT HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT KERRY .
I'M JUST TRYING TO BRING OUT THE ONE THING THAT HAS REALLY BEEN I THINK IS THE WT'S HEART
SHOWING BOTHSIDES.

I DONT ASK VETS IF THEY HAVE A PURPLE HEART OR SILVER STAR,WHEN I'M AT THE VA, I'M MORE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THEY NEED OR PROBLEMS.

LIKE I SAID EARLIER I'LL PUNCH "D" SPOTS PLUS THE "R" BUTTON I DONT STRAIGHT TICKETS
I'M TO THE POINT I'LL JUST LEAVE IT UNTOUCHED,I CANT SUPPORT EITHER ONE RIGHT NOW.

" The nation that will insist in drawing a board line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards" --SIR WILLIAM BUTLER

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PostPosted: 08 Aug 2004, 03:49 
Well, it is your right.

I just don't see what Bush has done that is so terrible- at least with regards to the war on terror.

He was obviously told that Iraq had WMD, it has come out that the president of Egypt told Tommy Franks, CENTCOMCINC straight out that Saddam had the biologicals, and would use them on our troops. If he believed- as all of us did, let's not forget that- that they had WMD, that they had an active and ongoing nuclear program(which they did), then the Iraqi invasion was not only justified, but a damned good idea.

There has not been a single foriegn terrorist attack on US soil since 9-11.

That reason alone gets George my vote. I sure wish he would dump Cheyney though. I can't stand that bastard.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2004, 15:01 
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There are always two sides to everything, 1. The Truth, and 2. Lies

Marge: There's someone here who I think can help you. Homer: Who, Batman? Marge: No he's a scientist. Homer: Batman's a scientist? Marge: It's not Batman!


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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2004, 06:18 
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Unfit for command?
Tony Blankley (archive)


August 11, 2004 | Print | Send

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/tony ... 0811.shtml

A Tony Blankley review:


I stayed up late last night and read from cover to cover the book "Unfit for Command -- Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry." An impartial reader (if there is still such a beast in this election season) would have to conclude that either the book is a pack of lies, or John Kerry is in fact a reckless, lying man who misrepresented the facts in order to receive medals he didn't deserve, and is indeed unfit to command even a tugboat, let alone the United States military as president.

The book appears to be meticulously researched and reported. It is replete with copious footnotes, a detailed index and two appendices. Firsthand witnesses are named and quoted verbatim to support each specific, shocking charge. Each charge of false heroics is logically presented. The authors quote the official Navy citation and then present the purported eyewitness testimony that refutes the official finding. The witnesses who are summoned forth are officers and men who served simultaneously with Kerry in Coastal Division 11 and purport to be eyewitnesses to the events in question.

And yet, there is another group of men, the sailors who served directly under John Kerry on the same boat with him -- his band of brothers. They have traveled around the country with Mr. Kerry and have vouched for his description of his heroic, able and selfless service to our country.

One of these groups of men are lying through their teeth. This is not a case of failed memories. In a few instances, it could be a case of honest differences of perception of events. But considering all the testimony and evidence, John Kerry is either Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. As of this moment there is about a 50-50 chance that we will elect, in the person of John Kerry, either a very fine man or a truly despicable man president of the United States.

Either group of men, if we knew nothing else, would seem to be credible, reliable witnesses. Both groups served honorably in Vietnam, gained many medals and have apparently lived respectable lives since then. Few, if any of them, have been politically active in the last 30 years.

The men making the charges are almost all of his fellow officers and the higher chain of command in Kerry's Coastal Division 11. The book points out that on John Kerry's Website he has a photo of himself and 19 fellow swift boat officers, taken while they were simultaneously serving in that unit. Of those 19 fellow officers, 11 have asked him to stop using their image with him. Of the remaining eight, two are deceased, four don't wish to be involved, and one is not a supporter of Kerry but didn't have the opportunity to sign the letter calling for the photo to be taken off the Website. Only one of the 19, Skip Barker, supports Mr. Kerry.

There has been some confusion about whether the witnesses against Kerry had an adequate view of his conduct, compared with the view of his supporters who were on his boat. The book explains that the swift boats usually moved in a pack of three or four on the same mission. They operated within yards of each other. Moreover, they all docked, bunked, ate and lived in the same camp.

If one compared their relations to an army company of men, the fellow junior officers who captained the tiny swift boats were the functional equivalent of squad leaders, each with their own handful of men under them. Squad leaders, operating on the same mission together are in excellent positions to assess the performance of their fellow squad leaders. They are covering each other's flanks. The book is filled with testimony of these men, describing what they claim they clearly saw John Kerry doing and not doing.

Of course, almost every presidential campaign has an outcropping of scandal charges. Usually it is by one or two people -- a woman who claimed she met the candidate in a bar, some political opponent from a long-forgotten campaign reprieving his shopworn, uncorroborated calumny. If a book is involved in such charges, the opposing party usually finds a hack ghostwriter.

But this scandal charge is by over 200 respectable former naval officers and men. The primary author, John O'Neill, first started publicly challenging Mr. Kerry 30 years ago on the "Dick Cavett Show." The co-author, Jerome Corsi, is not a political hack, but a college friend of Mr. O'Neill, with a Ph.D. from Harvard and a distinguished writing career.

The book has the ring of sincerity to it, and the mark of careful research and writing. If they are not telling the truth, all these men have exposed themselves to financially ruinous libel actions by Mr. Kerry -- who has the private resources to prosecute such actions. Even as a public figure, he might well win such an action, if this book is the pack of lies the Kerry camp says it is.

If it is not a pack of lies, the nation needs to know that, too. I would encourage some of the major voices of the non-conservative mainline media -- Tim Russert, Dan Rather, Leonard Downie Jr. of the Washington Post -- to do as I did. Spend an evening reading the book. If they are not struck by the damning picture it paints of John Kerry and the credibility of the presentation, forget about it. But if they judge it as I did, then let their consciences be their guide


"Live every day like it's the last, 'cause one day you're gonna be right!" Ray Charles (6/10/04 was the day)

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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2004, 09:20 
Never happen. The leftist media elite will never turn on their own dog. What's more, they KNOW what kind of man Kerry is. They've followed his career since 1972 when Kerry began accusing our veterans of unsubstantiated warcrimes, and admitting he himself commited war crimes.

Tell us more about those war crimes J F'ing K, we want to know what you did.

Oh, your commanders did it for us: He shot an unarmed and wounded vietcong boy. He torched a village. He had a love of indiscriminitely firing on civilians.

I guess we don't need you to tell us anything John. We couldn't believe you even if you did.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan


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PostPosted: 13 Aug 2004, 10:21 
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Oh, they'll read it alright. But they'll sure as hell never admit it or objectively discuss it.

"Live every day like it's the last, 'cause one day you're gonna be right!" Ray Charles (6/10/04 was the day)

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