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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2004, 15:27 
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Joined: 12 Oct 2002, 11:09
Posts: 2857
there is a price for not being an ally and defending us. We dont defend you or prop up your socialist economy. I think the German's politicians will sh** if Bush is re elected and the base closing happen to think they followed the French interest instead of ours.

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German towns worry about U.S. troop pullout
Pentagon's realignment to change economic, social landscape
By Andy Eckardt
Producer
NBC News
Updated: 11:26 a.m. ET Aug. 19, 2004

MAINZ, Germany - In the days since President Bush announced the major troop realignment that will drastically alter U.S. military strategy accross the globe and transplant the approximately 70,000 troops currently based in Europe and Asia to new strategic locations, there has been widespread outcry from German communities that have hosted U.S. bases for decades.

The restructuring will not go into effect until 2006 and exact details on the changes have been scarce, but front-page stories on the pullout have filled Germany's leading newspapers.

"The Americans are leaving, fear is coming,” read a headline in Germany's tabloid newspaper Bild, reflecting concerns of many German communities.

But, General Charles F. Wald, Deputy Commander of the U.S. European Command, has reassured allies that the details of the restructuring are still to be determined.

"The largest adjustment will be with the U.S. Army in Europe, but who they are and where they go is still in discussion and negotiation," Wald told NBC News.

Close ties built over years
Many small communities in Germany have adjusted to the U.S. military presence with their infrastructure and economy over the years. For example, German car dealers set up businesses outside U.S. bases, and other retailers work as contractors on bases and sell local items in the U.S. shopping facilities.

"The loss of several hundred jobs for civilian employees is painful for the region," said Markus Gilbert from the local chamber of commerce in Giessen-Friedberg, where units of the 1st Armored Division are stationed.

According to the German labor union Verdi, the realignment of U.S. forces could endanger tens of thousands of jobs in a country that is already battling with high unemployment. In addition, regional governments fear financial losses in the retail and housing sector.

Even though political and military leaders have avoided naming U.S. divisions and U.S. base locations that will be affected, the re-deployment of the US Army's 1st Armored Division and 1st Infantry Division has been discussed in public.

According to the Frankfurter Rundschau newspaper, the U.S. Army is planning to close three of its five Giessen facilities, deploying more than 1,000 1st Armored Division soldiers and their families.

"This does not come as a surprise, we have known about the plans since May 2003," said Christoph Zoerb, the spokesman for the city of Giessen. "This will not lead to an economic exodus in our region, but we are very sad that the Americans are leaving, they are fully integrated and have become part of our society.”

Even when the soldiers returned from their mission in Iraq, the city organized homecoming ceremonies for the Americans. And, Zoerb and his colleagues will not easily accept the U.S. government's decision.

"We will increase our lobbying efforts and openly call for a re-evaluation of the withdrawal plans," said Zoerb.

Since fall of the Berlin wall, changes afoot
U.S. troops were based in large numbers in Germany during the Cold War, but since the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of military threat from the East Bloc, the U.S. military has gradually reduced its size in the country.

And, even though many small communities in Germany, like Giessen and Friedberg, are worried about the aftermath of the pull-out, many former base locations prove that there is life after.

In Wiesbaden, where the headquarters of the 1st Armored Division is located, only 10,000 Americans -- compared to once 30,000 US troops -- are still left. Large former U.S. compounds like Camp Lindsey and Camp Pieri were turned into modern housing areas and office space for local businesses.

Despite the criticism from many German officials, who say that the cleanup and re-construction process after handovers of U.S. facilities to local governments is timely and costly, there are many examples for successful conversions.

For the past five years, a former U.S. airfield in Hahn has been profitably operating as a civilian airport, from where low-budget airlines service several European destinations. Another former U.S. air base in Zweibrücken now functions as a business park, hosting multi-media firms, cinemas, and a factory outlet.

"It is very hard for some people, as they become very comfortable with the status quo, but from a military perspective, we are ready to move on," said Wald.

Re-alignment inevitable
For U.S. military leaders the re-alignment process is inevitable.

"There is a new threat, it is asymmetrical and it takes a different type of military to respond -- it takes new tactics, training and procedures," Wald said, referring to the global threat of the terrorism.

In the future, the U.S. military is planning to rely more on so called forward operating sites -- smaller, more flexible staging posts on the periphery of NATO or even outside the territory of the alliance.

These temporary facilities -- often former communist bloc bases -- could be used for strategic airlift or simply as re-fueling points, like Romanian air base Costanta, which was a staging area for special operations missions during the Iraq war.

"We are looking for a temporary fashion of bases, without the major infrastructure that is needed to support families," Wald added.

Continued presence
Yet, military officials have repeatedly stressed that facilities like the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, which has been regularly treating wounded U.S. soldiers, airmen and Marines from Iraq, and Ramstein Air Base in southwestern Germany will not be effected.

Ramstein Air Base, for example, is part of a military community that hosts nearly 42,000 troops, family members and DoD civilians, and is significant as a strategic airlift hub. Logistical support for Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan has been mainly coming from the Ramstein base.

The installation has actually been expanding. A new passenger and a new freight terminal were finished recently. The U.S. government is investing $375 million for construction on base and re-location of units from its Rhein-Main Air Base in Frankfurt, which is being shut down and moved to Ramstein and the Spangdahlem Air Force Base.

The German locals in the region have quietly adjusted to the increase in air traffic and do not complain about the noise that the large freight planes are generating, as they know what could be at stake. Ramstein Air Base is by far the largest employer in the region, with more than 6,000 German civilian workers.

"In the end, it will probably not be as bad as it sounds and, we are still committed to Europe," said Wald.
Andy Eckardt is an NBC News producer based in Mainz, Germany.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5757880/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2004, 16:45 
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Joined: 25 Nov 2002, 21:15
Posts: 2000
You know I find it ridiculous that the German goverment and people for the most part dislike us and our politics but when we threaten to take our troops (read money) home the tears start to fall. I say screw'em.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields


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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2004, 21:46 
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Joined: 24 Nov 2003, 18:10
Posts: 375
Cry to that idio you elected, not us. Have fun with the third french empire...I mean the EU.


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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2004, 22:20 
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 22:04
Posts: 220
Gentlemen,

If I may. This was coming regardless of what the Germans want. V Corps was going to stay in Iraq and by the same token, it and its soldiers are going to spend their monies there. This is just a reflection of reality. Those German towns who are going to suffer the economic hit already suffered the economic hit.

Anyone trying to stir up the issue have a political agenda in mind (ie to punish the Germans).

Lastly, even Rumsfeld supported EuroForce, trying to streamline NATO's own internal inefficencies. Do not blame the Europeans for wha the Americans tried to encourage.


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2004, 04:16 
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Joined: 25 Nov 2002, 21:15
Posts: 2000
OOE,
I am sure no one intended this as a punishment to the Germans. I was just lamenting the fact that now reality has come to roost the Germans are whinning.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2004, 06:10 
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Joined: 17 Mar 2003, 08:32
Posts: 1097
what pisses me off, is the're whining like its our responsibilty to make sure they have jobs...

You look as lost as a bastard child on Fathers day.

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2004, 14:58 
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\"Some Pup\"
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Joined: 26 Nov 2003, 17:17
Posts: 1022
Location: Missouri
It's mostly the upper class and politicians that don't like us. I knew several Germans while there; our church meetings weren't on base, and the local ward was combined while I was there. They liked us. They didn't like our leaders, but we were cool with them.

"Some pup"
Nickname by Fenderstrat72

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