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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>What about Oakland?

Once he's finally back into his groove, he'd be able to pump new life into the Raiders' passing game. They can kick "Old Man Gannon" outta there and bring someone who's still got a few years left in their arm into the program.

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Dude, Warner is one more concussion away from being an anylist on FOX. Oaklands crummy offensive line would accelerate that career move for him. Gannon is not the problem in Oakland. He hasn't played bad, but unless he is up to his standard of the last three years, people seem to be his worst critic. Oakland's problem is the same as San Fransisco post Bill Walsh, or Dallas post Jimmy Johnson. Bill Callahan was able to to ride Grudens coatails for one season. Like Switzer and Seifert, it will not last, and it hasn't. Callahan is not a bad coach, but with the egos, talent, and enemey's the Raiders have, as well as a retard like Al Davis behind the scenese, it takes a special coach to make that team work. John Madden, Tom Flores, Jon Gruden, even Mike Shanahan was turning things around, but "good" coaches tend to become bad coaches in Oakland...Just the way that team works. Look at the Raiders roster that last 20 years, look at all the Heisman trophy winners, Pro-Bowl players..They always have great talent, what they always do not have is the chemistry of a winner, it takes a great coach to provide that direction.

BTW I played Wide Reciever and Defensive Back in High School, was the captain of the "freeze team" for three years, the freeze team were the guys on the sidelines that frooze their asses off because they were not on the field playing. I got alot of varsity time my senior year, but was pretty mediocore all in all.



Edited by - chadrewsky on Nov 14 2003 04:03 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Gannon is not the problem in Oakland.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Right, but he's not the solution either. Once a QB in the NFL has 10+ years under their belt, you have to keep an eye on 'em.

As for assigning blame, on ANY team, the first two positions to come under fire are of course the head coach and the quarterback. Gannon's a good quarterback, but he's old and he's been getting the crap kicked out of him lately, due in large part (as you said) to the O-line. However, Shanahan's not getting his head out of Al Davis' ass long enough to make changes either.

Everybody keeps pointing the finger at Al Davis. So he's a cranky ol' bastard that can't run a football team. The coaches shouldn't cow down to him because they're afraid of losing their job or whatnot. Look at Parcells and the Cowboys.

All I heard throughout the offseason was how Parcells and Jerry Jones were gonna start "butting heads" because Jerry's an "involved" owner (which is a joke, but that's for a different thread) and Parcells wants to run things his way. However, Parcells came in, told Jones he didn't want him to be involved and to stay the hell off his sidelines during games, and look... 7-2 Cowboys, #1 rated defense in the NFL, etc, etc.

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Benjamin Franklin, 1759

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>However, Parcells came in, told Jones he didn't want him to be involved and to stay the hell off his sidelines during games, and look... 7-2 Cowboys, #1 rated defense in the NFL, etc, etc.
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Jon Gruden did exactly that, and got himself bounced to Tampa bay. Al Davis is a tyrant, and only a few people can suceed under his style of operation. Both John Madden, and Tom Flores let AL's bs go in one ear and out the other, but both also quit the Raiders after 10 years. John Madden won more games in 10 years than any other coach in NFL history, and this was before the 16 game regular season the NFL adopted in the late 70's....

As for Gannon, I don't buy the age issue in his regard, you are talking about the reigning NFL MVP and a quarterback that broke 3 NFL single season passing records last season. But without protection he is mere mortal, just like any other QB. he threw more picks in the Super Bowl than he did through the first 14 regular season games last season, QB can't do much when pass rushers are beating him around.



Edited by - chadrewsky on Nov 15 2003 01:14 AM

The Dallas run is an illusion.

#1 defense....an insult to previous holders of that rank.

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>

ditto, there is gonna be some fresh "tuna salad" in the playoffs.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Jon Gruden did exactly that, and got himself bounced to Tampa bay.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Where he won the Superbowl the following year. I don't think that's a bad career move at all.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>As for Gannon, I don't buy the age issue in his regard, you are talking about the reigning NFL MVP and a quarterback that broke 3 NFL single season passing records last season.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
This is his 17th season!!! No QB plays for nearly TWO DECADES in the NFL, especially not with the abuse that Gannon's been taking. He's out for the season now with the surgery he just had. I'll be surprised if he even comes back next year.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>ditto, there is gonna be some fresh "tuna salad" in the playoffs.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Where's a doorknob when you need one?

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Dude...

Gannon has been in the NFL for 17 seasons, he hasn't played for 17 seaons. His record breaking season btw did hapeen only a year ago, where he was also the NFL's MVP. Throw the old logic out the window, todays atheletes take better care of themselves and last longer, especially if their playing time has not accumulated. I am tired of the slams on Gannon, he still is in the top teir of NFL quarterbacks. Have you watched a single game this year? Quit reading the newspapers and sports columns and make your own assesments.

It all worked out for Gruden, but it was not how he wanted it to work out, he wanted to stay a Raider, Al Davis insulted him by allowing him to enter into his final season with the Raiders without the contract extension he wanted, after that he was trade bait. His Super Bowl thrashing of his old team was poetic justice, even for me, and I am a die hard Raider's fan.

Gannon is capable of playing at a high level for another season or two...He takes good care of himself, and takes his preperation for the game just as serious. He is the consumate profesional.

Chad I have to agree with froggy on the Gannon issue Oakland would have to SERIOUSLY revamp their O-line for Gannon to stay on and remain effective. every year he gets older his ability to take hits and recover from them gets less and less, its a fact of life. I've been somewhat impressed with Mirer, far more so than I've ever been with Tuisiopio (or whatever his name is), but I don't think Mirer is the answer either. I would like to see him stay on as a QB coach due to his exp.(moving on up from there)

Bottom line last year was the year for the Raiders to win the Bowl. I told everyone I new that if they didn't win then it was back to the rebuilding board. I would have loved for them to have proved me wrong this year, but they didn't.

I hope Gruden breaks and ankle...... and I hope Al Davis gets runover by a bus.



28-18 Oakland! eat it Froggy <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Overkill??? I'd kill a fly with a howitzer if I had one.

Edited by - stinger on Nov 17 2003 06:55 AM

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

how about Gannon breaking his ankle WHILE he is running over Al with a bus lol

whoooo hooo my Chiefs were succesful yesterday!!!!...............at making the Bengles look competant lol, oh well just got thier heads slapped a little so back to reality. Couldent believe Vermeil didnt on-side kick that last time, they hadent really stopped the Bengles all day dont know why he thought he could then. Also noticed last week I think, that Holmes wasnt handeling the cold temps very well, seeemed to bother him on the sidelines, not good for the playoffs.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Eagles are starting to get healthy again and are looking good.

Laid a nice stomping on the Giants yesterday, including a 4 play goal line stand from the 1 yard line.

McNabb is finally back to his old self with two straight 300 yard passing games to go along with his 3 touchdown passes yesterday.

The Eagles have pulled into a tie with the Cowgirls for first place, and i fully expect them to leave the Girls in their rear view mirror.

Parcells Cowgirls were winning with smoke and mirrors.

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>

Snipe you KNOW that was an abberation, NO team could EVER possibly beat a team with jeremy shocky even if he is just setting on the bench, it was a freakin miracle my Rams were able to beat the Chicago Urlachers, at leaste that's what the adverts seem to imply <barf>

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

LOL

Poor Shock-me's Giants have lost in 3 tries out of 4 in playing the Eagles since he was drafted. So much for that eh?

LOL

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>

I just get tired of the NYC and LA press.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Raiders can't do anything right, they will no probably rally around Mirer, finish 8-8 and fall out of the Eli Manning sweepstakes.

Guys in regards to Gannon, I know where you are comming from, but no quarterback (the Raiders are using their third string guy now) would survive in that situation.

Gannon's game is not like an Elway or Favre, he is like a coach on the field, and I cannot think of a QB in the NFL that has a better command of his offense than Gannon. He will be back, for no other reason than to groom whatever young QB they draft. the guy can still play I am telling you, We will see next year if he is willing to take a pay cut to keep playing for the Raiders....If not he will end up as a Don Strock type player somewhere, maybe even Tampa..lol

Either way, Gannon is still a great QB.

Snipe didn't I tell you your Eagles would be ok? ITs gonna be a Tennesee Philly Super Bowl, thats my latest bandwagon pick.



Edited by - chadrewsky on Nov 18 2003 2:26 PM

Well I am glad "MeShawn" is being put in his place, this reminds me a little of what Gruden did to Ricky Watters when he was the offensive cordinator in Philly. He didn't severe ties with Ricky, but he told him who was running the show.

BTW, any Jimmy MacMahon fans here? I always liked his gutsy leadership style...

Here is the latest on Meshawn...

http://www.msnbc.com/news/995292.asp

Ideal scenario:

Rice finally retires (he hardly performs anymore anyway), and Gannon stays on as either a second-stringer or assistant coach or something. The Raiders sign on Keyshawn, and Mirer continues to play well. They begin rebuilding the offensive line with next year's draft, and they reform the passing game around Mirer/Keyshawn. Keyshawn's an experienced receiver that can grab the ball, which will help give Mirer the confidence he needs to bolster Oakland's passing game.

Critiques? Ideas? Suggestions?

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Benjamin Franklin, 1759

F*&)^(*&% that if the Raiders sign Keyshawn then I officially quit being a Raiders fan. He's almost as bad as that loudmouth moss.

Overkill??? I'd kill a fly with a howitzer if I had one.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

Frogger please do not take this the wrong way, but your on crack

Meshawn sux, his 40 time is slower than Warren Sapps, and he is easily shut down in the Red Zone. I have never been impressed by him, and the Raiders have a great young Wide Reciver in Jerry Porter.

Mirer does not bolster the Raiders passing game, the guy that makes that work is #12, and he is out for the season...Gannon has the NFL record for the most 300 yard passing games in a single season, the single game record for consecutive completions, and the most completions in a season ever....There is no way that Mirer is an upgrade over Gannon, and in Oakland the way they do things when the team is in sync, I cannot think of a better QB, than maybe Brett Favre...

Brown and Rice are ready to retire, I love them both, and have watched Brown since his rookie year, seeing #81 gone will be an end of an era for me. Brown may not have the stats Rice has, but he is second, while Rice had Joe Montana's and Steve Youngs throwing to him, Brown had to deal with the Jay Schroeder's and Billy Joe Hoberts, only in the last 4 years has Brown had a great QB in Rich Gannon.

Randy Moss at least can be a game breaker, when he is not being defended by Charles Woodson.

I need to warn you guys, talking Raiders football with me is almost as bad, if not worse than talking about the F-14.

hope it's a good game this week, but I'll have to keep switching back and forth cause the Ramies are on at the same time as usuall <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

That was typical of the Raiders and the Chiefs, it seems that every year, not matter what their records are, they play each other tough. Phillip Buchanon is a retard, and his little side show burned 15 yards. Mirer played well, and is a competent QB. Jumping on the Rick Mirer bandwogan is almost as absurd as the John Forcade bandwagon about 10 years ago, when he led the Saints to late season run....Now the Raiders are playing for the Eli Manning sweepstakes, with Denver struggling the Chiefs can run away with the Division in the next few weeks..

it was a VERY VERY good game. Hate has always been a good motivator in football and the Cheifs/Raiders has never been one of those "friendly rivalries". I knew the Cheifs would have a problem stopping those runs up the middle, they have all year.

Well folks the Rams AND the Chiefs are now leading thier respective divisions lol

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Big win for the Eagles yesterday.

McNabb again looked sharp, and is back to his pre-injury level again.

Watch out NFC, when McNabb gets it going like this the Eagles are almost impossible to beat.



<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>

yeah wanted to see that game but.....


"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

The Saints fired every bullet they had at the Eagles.

Didn't matter.

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>

cool-o, so Rams vs Eagles in the playoffs lol

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.