WT Forums

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
How to keep a lunatick in consistent suspense...

reply to this thread, as it invests into the cheap entertainment of others. Namely mine.




"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

It would be entertaining if the answer was a matter of life & death and Stinger hadn't already answered it.

Let the thread amuse you I'm bailing out of it.

W.A.B. Moderator. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/

_________________

But more one question before I bail.

Was Snipe just being biased towards Poke?

Don't recall him ever having a Commies back when they said I don't know what I'm talking about in any of my posts about Russian Military and Russian Military equiptment. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

W.A.B. Moderator. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/



Edited by - Lunatock on Jan 08 2004 09:56 AM

_________________

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
But more one question before I bail.

Was Snipe just being biased towards Poke?

Don't recall him ever having a Commies back when they said I don't know what I'm talking about in any of my posts about Russian Military and Russian Military equiptment. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

W.A.B. Moderator. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/



Edited by - Lunatock on Jan 08 2004 09:56 AM
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

but more one question before you bail?

AHAHAHAHA



Sorry dude, but you must speak in english. I can not transpose as to what the hell you are trying to say. First it was punctuation errors. now you cannot formulate a sentance in proper grammatical order.

So yes one last question is in order. As to what purpose do you need to understand Russian manufactored military hardware?

Second question. If you were a military scout and could identify said above vehicles on a battlefield. Would you beable to accurately describe and convey exactly what it is you saw on the battlefield that would be inteligable and decipherable to your commanders. Now haveing said this. Do we need to Recruit, Field and standup a lunatick brigade in the fashion of say, navajo codetalkers to transmit, relay and decipher your psychobable? this is clearly not cost effective for the Department of Defense. However what was invested upon you, by taxdollars was the valuable and cost effective public schooling, you failed to apply in this thread.

The Tools of success were there. you failed to pick up and apply them.


"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

Ok #1.

It's called Democracy??? THAT'S why I'm looking into Russian Military Equiptment, and I'm free to say nothing is your business.

2. Yes I would know a BTR, T-64, T-72, and T-80 on sight.

How hard would it be too understand "Russian Armor, T-72's coming"?

And I never claimed to be a scout, or hold any other job in the Military. You made that assumption yourself.

P.s. Congradulations on taking a perfectly legit thread...and ruining it with your Trolling! <img src=newicons/anim_cussing.gif border=0 align=middle>



W.A.B. Moderator. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/

_________________

See Luna, now THAT post we can all understand!

Already you are making significant improvement.

Kudos Sir, Kudos...

PS...no need to get upset dude. We're doing this out of love. True it's 'tough love', but it's love nonetheless.

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>

Trolling?

sorry im a Fly fisherman here. No sport in trolling.

See anyone can crash a hook into a fish. But it takes true sporting art in the ways of Tieing the Flyline, tippet and Fly.

I like to tie my own flies, and tease the fish that failed to go to school with the other fishies. you know the ones that should of been learning, instead they are curious sorts that like to getthemselves into things their grey matter fails to alarm them to the impending doom.

It truly is an art form. Only one that can be applied and understood by those with a solid grasp and command of the english language.

No worries, eventually i'll get bored with you, and wade to the other side of the pond. As you fail to rise to the challenges set before you by the many anglers here.

Ok off you go, be thankful I use barbless hooks.. Dont be late to school now...



"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

<i>See Luna, now THAT post we can all understand!</i>

Aye, Aye to that.
See, its not hard.


How did you come around so fast?


Edited by - Tritonal on Jan 08 2004 12:13 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I like to tie my own flies, and tease the fish that failed to go to school with the other fishies. you know the ones that should of been learning, instead they are curious sorts that like to get themselves into things their grey matter fails to alarm them to the impending doom.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

So your saying no good can come out of being on WT/In the company of Military Type People?

<img src="http://www.usafa-aog.org/2002/05/k-cover.jpg" border=0>



W.A.B. Moderator. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/



Edited by - Lunatock on Jan 08 2004 4:51 PM

_________________

No, Lunatock, that's not what he's saying at all. He's saying that you shouldn't have ditched class to hotbox your car QUITE so many times in high school. <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> You would have learned better communication skills, and we would understand what you are trying to find out about USAFA.

And don't blame this on the military. There isn't some mysterious shroud that enters our brains when we swear the oath that prevents us from understanding you. I would guess that we are just more of a "tough love" bunch than most civilians, who will just smile and nod and make you think they understand, when they have no better idea what you are saying than we do. We don't doubt your knowledge in a variety of miltary subjects, it's your ability to communicate that knowledge that we are teasing you about.

Perhaps try this?:

<b>Ma'am! I'm requesting some insight into USAFA Cadet Training Sessions! What's it like to get yelled at and be the one yelling?!</b>

Same idea as presenting yourself before tournament judges, answering instructos, ect.

Hope that sentence in bold simplifies things a little.

*Grandmaster Shin. WTSDA's founder is ex-S.Korean Air Force, and used to train any willing USAFA recruits that got stationed at the same base. That Org. draws rather heavily from the Military as far as protocol.



W.A.B. Moderator. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/

_________________

Well now, why didn't you just word it like that in the first place? Nouns and verbs, coherent punctuation... It was beautiful! I am wiping a tear from my eye...

What are training sessions like? Well, before I begin, I must explain that none of this exists anymore. The Agenda for Change that first got its tickle my fourth class year has now wiped the slate clean entirely. As sad as it is that a 2nd LT remembers "old school" training, it is the case. Military training at USAFA now consists mainly of paper pushing, and not a whole lot more.

There are 3 basic varieties of after school/weekend training sessions: a flame session, a training session, and a beat session.

Flame session: Fourthclassmen stand with their backs to the wall, shouting knowledge. Knowledge is memorized in set assignments on a weekly basis, from a small book called Contrails. This is stuff like quotes, the history of the AF, Army, and Navy, quotes, general information about the AF, planes (manufacturer/nickname/crew comp/weapons load/primary mission if it's really long and hard to remember), quotes, and other random military related stuff. During flame sessions, the key is knowing your stuff, and shouting the loudest. Upperclassmen pace and wander about the hallway, asking specific questions or asking for quotes, yelling at said 4* if it isn't fast enough or a mistake is made, or if your uniform isn't perfect, or if it's cloudy, or if he didn't like what was for lunch. A standard thing to do is to ask three 4* standing together to say the same quote, but make them say it about 10 words apart, or have one say Article 1 of the Code of Conduct, another say Article 2, another Article 3, etc. All at top volume. Not a whole lot of physical training goes on here, mostly mental.

Training sessions: General physical/mental training, almost always done outside. Standard to a training session is a formation run, with rubber duckies (rubber M-16s, weigh about 8-10 lbs). Jodies are called, pushups are done, "Navy pushups" (put rifle above head, put it down, put it above head, continue until said rifle weighs about 100 lbs), more running, more general physical stuff. All the while, uppers yell and "motivate" you to continue, but none of it is all that terrible. This is meat and potatoes training, mostly for general physical conditioning.

Beat sessions: By far the most hated training sessions. There is no way to make a beat session anything other than what it is - misery. Most of what is done during these times can't really be explained, just that it is usually more physical, but can be a combination of the other two, just to an extreme. "Beat" does NOT mean that the 4* are EVER hit or punched or touched at all. All of this is just physical conditioning until you think you're gonna just die. You won't, of course. But you think you might. To explain, I'll tell you what my most memoriable Beat Session was. They taught us to navigate with compasses, gave us 2 compasses, a map, and sent us off into the late afternoon well armed with field jackets/canteens/rifles/ets. It was late Jan, snow on the ground, pretty cold. We get to our destination not long after dark, an undisclosed location on Academy grounds, and as soon as we walk into the clearing headlights turn on all around us. "Welcome to the Jungle" is blaring, and all the 1* (Firsties) were waiting for us. Extreme yelling and physical conditioning commenced for who knows how long. I distinctly remember not being able to lift my face from the snow, I had done so many pushups, rifle raises, whatever. One of my classmates had to pick me up by the back of my jacket so we could get in the Mother (a free floating squat position, knees at 90*). And there was more after that. All of a sudden, there was some cue, and they all got into their cars and drove away, leaving us in the dark, exhausted and alone. On the way back, of the 9 of us there, 3 guys cried. I would die before I'd tell you who, though. It was all I could do to carry my rifle back. We thought we were alone at the time, but we later learned that 3 uppers were trailing us, for safety reasons. I guess they had followed us out as well. It was after midnight when we got back that Friday night. So that's kind of what a beat session is like. They only happen about once a month, if that, for obvious reasons.

What is it like being the upper? It is hard and fun at the same time. On one hand, the 4* are like your kids. You get frustrated when they screw up, and it makes you so happy to see them succeed. But there isn't really anything spectacular about the yelling and training. You suddenly learn that there are a LOT of rules that you have to follow, like no name calling, no touching AT ALL, no pointing, and above all, SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY! You find yourself repeating the same dumb catch-phrases that you were so tired of hearing from your uppers, simply because you run out of things to say. How many times can you tell someone to do the same thing without just going insane? It becomes robotic in a way. You also learn that bull horns lower a person's IQ by an average of 100 pts. But, each year you have a different role, and you grow up and mature because of it. You learn a lot, and I really mean a lot, being an upperclassman. Sometimes you have to do stuff that really sucks, like chewing out a 4* that you really think has their stuff together usually, but needs it that time. An anecdote about that: My firstie year there was this female 4* in my squadron. Overall, she had her act together, but she let it go to her head and started getting sloppy. So I pulled her aside and gave her a good stern talking to. I knew it cut pretty deep (females training other females tended to get pretty personal pretty quick, it didn't take much from another female to really rock my world, whereas the guys never got to me at all), because I could see tears welling behind her eyes, but she was doing everything she could not to cry in front of me. And that just made me sick, because I hated having to do it, but, it was necessary. If I didn't, she wouldn't learn.

Does that answer your question pretty well, Lunatock?<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

lol.

I love this place.

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Well now, why didn't you just word it like that in the first place? Nouns and verbs, coherent punctuation... It was beautiful! I am wiping a tear from my eye...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Someone else's training, and you got the return investment. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>What are training sessions like? Well, before I begin, I must explain that none of this exists anymore. The Agenda for Change that first got its tickle my fourth class year has now wiped the slate clean entirely. As sad as it is that a 2nd LT remembers "old school" training, it is the case. Military training at USAFA now consists mainly of paper pushing, and not a whole lot more.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

The USAFA Cadet's didn't adapt somehow?
A few years back the USMC banned the Corporal promotion hazing. One D.I. known as "Sgt Brutus" said he was promoted to Corporal, and was hazed in a bar.

About fifteen other Marines held him down, one more burned his arm w/ a zippo.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>There are 3 basic varieties of after school/weekend training sessions: a flame session, a training session, and a beat session.

Flame session: Fourthclassmen stand with their backs to the wall, shouting knowledge. Knowledge is memorized in set assignments on a weekly basis, from a small book called Contrails. This is stuff like quotes, the history of the AF, Army, and Navy, quotes, general information about the AF, planes (manufacturer/nickname/crew comp/weapons load/primary mission if it's really long and hard to remember), quotes, and other random military related stuff. During flame sessions, the key is knowing your stuff, and shouting the loudest. Upperclassmen pace and wander about the hallway, asking specific questions or asking for quotes, yelling at said 4* if it isn't fast enough or a mistake is made, or if your uniform isn't perfect, or if it's cloudy, or if he didn't like what was for lunch. A standard thing to do is to ask three 4* standing together to say the same quote, but make them say it about 10 words apart, or have one say Article 1 of the Code of Conduct, another say Article 2, another Article 3, etc. All at top volume. Not a whole lot of physical training goes on here, mostly mental.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Pity you not doing flame sessions anymore. I've got one question that might of stumped a lot of them, and the answer might of made them mentally smack thier foreheads.

Q."Name at least one USAFA Graduate that went on to become one of Grandmaster Jae Chul Shin's top instructors."

A. (Master) Chuck Norris.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Training sessions: General physical/mental training, almost always done outside. Standard to a training session is a formation run, with rubber duckies (rubber M-16s, weigh about 8-10 lbs). Jodies are called, pushups are done, "Navy pushups" (put rifle above head, put it down, put it above head, continue until said rifle weighs about 100 lbs), more running, more general physical stuff. All the while, uppers yell and "motivate" you to continue, but none of it is all that terrible. This is meat and potatoes training, mostly for general physical conditioning.

Beat sessions: By far the most hated training sessions. There is no way to make a beat session anything other than what it is - misery. Most of what is done during these times can't really be explained, just that it is usually more physical, but can be a combination of the other two, just to an extreme. "Beat" does NOT mean that the 4* are EVER hit or punched or touched at all. All of this is just physical conditioning until you think you're gonna just die. You won't, of course. But you think you might. To explain, I'll tell you what my most memoriable Beat Session was. They taught us to navigate with compasses, gave us 2 compasses, a map, and sent us off into the late afternoon well armed with field jackets/canteens/rifles/ets. It was late Jan, snow on the ground, pretty cold. We get to our destination not long after dark, an undisclosed location on Academy grounds, and as soon as we walk into the clearing headlights turn on all around us. "Welcome to the Jungle" is blaring, and all the 1* (Firsties) were waiting for us. Extreme yelling and physical conditioning commenced for who knows how long. I distinctly remember not being able to lift my face from the snow, I had done so many pushups, rifle raises, whatever. One of my classmates had to pick me up by the back of my jacket so we could get in the Mother (a free floating squat position, knees at 90*). And there was more after that. All of a sudden, there was some cue, and they all got into their cars and drove away, leaving us in the dark, exhausted and alone. On the way back, of the 9 of us there, 3 guys cried. I would die before I'd tell you who, though. It was all I could do to carry my rifle back. We thought we were alone at the time, but we later learned that 3 uppers were trailing us, for safety reasons. I guess they had followed us out as well. It was after midnight when we got back that Friday night. So that's kind of what a beat session is like. They only happen about once a month, if that, for obvious reasons.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Good times huh?

That description of "beat sessions" has me more eager for a chance to test for the Cho Dan Bo, or Black Belt Candidate. 500 jumping jacks, pushups, situps, mountain climbers, and squat thrusts. Then the test after warming up.

Never seen anyone that took it actually fail yet...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>What is it like being the upper? It is hard and fun at the same time. On one hand, the 4* are like your kids. You get frustrated when they screw up, and it makes you so happy to see them succeed. But there isn't really anything spectacular about the yelling and training. You suddenly learn that there are a LOT of rules that you have to follow, like no name calling, no touching AT ALL, no pointing, and above all, SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY! You find yourself repeating the same dumb catch-phrases that you were so tired of hearing from your uppers, simply because you run out of things to say. How many times can you tell someone to do the same thing without just going insane? It becomes robotic in a way. You also learn that bull horns lower a person's IQ by an average of 100 pts. But, each year you have a different role, and you grow up and mature because of it. You learn a lot, and I really mean a lot, being an upperclassman. Sometimes you have to do stuff that really sucks, like chewing out a 4* that you really think has their stuff together usually, but needs it that time. An anecdote about that: My firstie year there was this female 4* in my squadron. Overall, she had her act together, but she let it go to her head and started getting sloppy. So I pulled her aside and gave her a good stern talking to. I knew it cut pretty deep (females training other females tended to get pretty personal pretty quick, it didn't take much from another female to really rock my world, whereas the guys never got to me at all), because I could see tears welling behind her eyes, but she was doing everything she could not to cry in front of me. And that just made me sick, because I hated having to do it, but, it was necessary. If I didn't, she wouldn't learn.

Does that answer your question pretty well, Lunatock?<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Almost! There's two that I've dealt with personally, and you might have as well...

#1! "May I go to the bathroom?" or "I gotta go to the bathroom."

Many varients to that one question. <img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

#2. Has anyone told you/been tricked into telling you thier tired? <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

W.A.B. Moderator. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/



Edited by - Lunatock on Jan 09 2004 09:34 AM

_________________

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The USAFA Cadet's didn't adapt somehow? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Yes, in fact, they have adapted. They've shut up and colored, like they are expected to, because no one wants to be sent to jail for something as stupid as yelling at a 4*. But no, we haven't sold out to The Man. That's why the edodo exists.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I've got one question that might of stumped a lot of them, and the answer might of made them mentally smack thier foreheads.

Q."Name at least one USAFA Graduate that went on to become one of Grandmaster Jae Chul Shin's top instructors."

A. (Master) Chuck Norris.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Jae Chul Shin and it's top instructors aren't nearly as important to the average usafa cadet as it is to you. You would have gotten a blank stare from the 4* you asked it of, and been laughed at later by other uppers. If you asked it as a 4*, you would have gotten "a firm talking to" by the upper.

As for question #1, it's not nearly as profound as you think. If a training session lasts on average 3 hours, and we drink about 1 canteen each hour, you can sure as hell bet that everyone's going to need to use the bathroom, and probably more than once. It's built into the training schedule, actually.

And question #2, you seem to have missed the whole point. The point of training is to make you tired. So, for a 4* to tell his/her uppers that they are tired is like telling them the sky is blue. If anything, it'll just get you more beatings. Nobody is that stupid. At least, not more than once.

Actually no. That's going on the merit of Chuck Norris. Quite possibly the most well known USAFA Grad. Unless of course, there are some strict rules agaisnt mentioning the fact he was once a Cadet.

Perhaps I should of been more specific. A few times I was asked by someone if they could get a drink, or go to the bathroom about 10-15 minutes from class ending.
Not so much the question, as the fact that someone was kicking ass, and pulls a stunt like that when thier almost done.

Right, different set of rules. Hehehe, guess you caught me not using my brain? <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

And saying your tired, or answering "yes" if someone asks if your tired <i>is</i> taken as a sign your not being worked hard enough.

Doesn't stop any of my superiors from asking on a regular basis...and being sneaky almost as often.



W.A.B. Moderator. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/

_________________

Holy shit Luna, you have made a full grammatical recovery!

I am most impressed.

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>

Lunatock I hate to burst your bubble about Chuck Norris but he was enlisted at 18 in the USAF as security police.... Check out the official AF link to the info.http://www.af.mil/news/Jun2001/n20010627_0875.shtml

"face it....perhaps your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others!"

Oh yeah he is Queer as Folk! too...

LOL typical AP...Always trying to compensate for something..

The texas Rump Ranger! Wow what a role model!

He ranks right up there with Catholic Priests!

<img src="http://www.biohazcentral.com/albums/MrMudd/glass.jpg" border=0>

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

LMAO





"face it....perhaps your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others!"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Holy shit Luna, you have made a full grammatical recovery!

I am most impressed.

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

This may come as a shock. But those same superiors tell me to straighten up & fly right on occasion. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

W.A.B. Moderator. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/

_________________

I don't understand, do uppers not flame the freshman? So you don't have first classmen at the barracks looking for cadets who don't strain properly or something else and then yell at them or make them push?

if not there getting off easy.

btw, I've always understood lunatock's posts with the utmost clarity.


<img src="http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/bombers/b5/b62-7.jpg" border=0>
overthere? naw, we'll kill 'em from here.


Edited by - flyboy on Jan 10 2004 8:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

He ranks right up there with Catholic Priests!

<img src="http://www.biohazcentral.com/albums/MrMudd/glass.jpg" border=0>

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

<img src=newicons/anim_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

Homer: Kids, you tried your best, and you failed miserably. The lesson is: never try!

_________________
\"My name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit.\"