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CNN has been reporting about two T-37's that collided near Wichita. Just wanted to let you all know that 1) it wasn't me and 2) all four pilots survived with minimal injuries. One plane had to eject and the second was able to land although they landed gear up.

Happy Hollidays to you all! I have one flight this afternoon and then I'm going to let someone else fly me home for Christmas<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Thanks for the update, Roots. Have a good one, yourself! I think you've earned it!<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

King George II on Gen. James Wolfe: "Mad, is he? Then I wish he'd bite more of my other generals!"

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson

Poke one question how do they handle a student who has had major accident in training. Are they automatically washed out or do they go through remedial training?

The other question who bears the most responsibility in this situation the instructor or student. The reason I ask is I would hate think that a split second mistake will end careers. But then again we should be thankful they are all alive.

Ok after reading I forgot I asked two questions, darn it I need to learn to us my abicus again. lol

Hey Poke....where are you stationed? I am an instructor at Sheppard...

As for the crash, yup, it sucks. The last stinking day before christmas break (pronounced 'the only thing cool about AETC'). They were in formation and hit each other...not really releasable how they hit yet. The crew who ejected is OK except for minor bruises. The crew who made it back did so in an EXREMELY damaged aircraft and landed gear up.

That makes 5 US military aviation midairs in 2002 with 7 fatalities. 2 A10 midairs with 1 death in each, a viper midair with 1 death (a former student at Sheppard), a superhornet midair with 4 deaths and now our T37 with no deaths thankfully. Hopefully the tweet accident string is over. It started a little over 2 years ago at Vance AFB when a solo navy student rode one in. Then out at Columbus a solo student GLOC'd and punched out. At Laughlin last Jan. a tweet in the final turn to land spun into the ground killing both the instructor and the student (Nick Jabara, whose grandfather was the first jet ace in Korea). Now ours finishes the string for all the UPT bases.

The disturbing thing is this:

The collision at D-M at the beginning of the year, happened while I was en route from Shepppard to D-M for MRT.

The Viper was here at Spang, the week I arrived on station.

We also had the incident in June.

I was at Nellis for the for the mid-air just a few weeks ago.

Kind of strange for a few of us here, how these incidents just seem to follow us...

--Raven

"Work Hard, Party Hard, Hardly Sleep"

Yeah, almost like one of the posters here (who shall remain nameless) was back to his "voodoo-model" tricks...lol<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down...

Wow! It really worked?? <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -General George Patton

Luke, I'm a student at Vance. We've heard a lot about the Navy solo guy. And the Colombus G-Loc guy. Do you know when they will release names or if they have? I know a number of people down at Sheppard and it would be great to know. We've heard a lot about the Navy solo guy.

Mattlot- I honestly don't know what they do with the student and/or instructor. As far as being a career ender or whose fault, I think that mostly depends on the nature of the incident. There will be an extensive investigation about it.

I am not too sure if the names are released yet. It was my old instructor from when I was a student that punched out. As for the students, if you have some buds in C flight then you might want to call down to see if they are OK. Yeah, the navy solo guy was a crappy situation. As was the similar situation in the dual crew final turn crash at Laughlin in January. About 1.5 years ago we had a fatal T38 midair that I was pretty extensively involved with (I was SARCAP, life support officer for the interim safety board, and the students were from my flight - the one who survived was my assigned student, the other sat right next to my desk). It sucks with any fatality but you have to compartmentalize and move on because a short time from now you may be in a squadron that has a bad day in combat and you really MUST move on in that situation to keep fighting.

As far as what happens to the students and IPs....for the students not too much happens. If the student is really THAT bad then they are already gone or on their way out already just due to the nature of pilot training. The overall responsibility is on the pilot in command and that is the instructor. That is why there is a safety investigation board (SIB). They study the crash to figure out what went wrong - there are ALWAYS human errors that contribute to all or part of the situation. There is also what is called an accident investigation board (AIB). The SIB is for safety so all information is priviliged and CANNOT be used against you. The AIB is to find out if anyone is at fault. They do their own investigation and are not allowed to get information from the SIB. Here is where the lawyers may have to step in. If a rated pilot is found at fault then anything can happen from not too much trouble for a situation that even though errors were made was still pretty unavoidable, to taking a pilot's wings away for lack of judgement/airmanship, to jail time for gross negligence (look up the situation going on right now about the Springfield ANG F16 guys who deliberately disobeyed orders not to fire and ended up killing a bunch of Canadian troops).

It is pilots who are running these boards and making recommendations so it is not like it is people who do not understand how difficult it can be up there....so that is good for a mishap pilot but the pilot community is not one that is very tolerant of sloppiness or even the slightest hint of inaptitude so that keeps the safety boards honest.

That T-38 collision was August of 2001, right? That happened just after I got to Sheppard from BMT, and I had a few buddies who were out on the clean-up out there. That one was pretty much ignored on our side of the house, other than clean-up detail...but it's also another for my list..

--Raven

"Work Hard, Party Hard, Hardly Sleep"

"That happened just after I got to Sheppard from BMT, and I had a few buddies who were out on the clean-up out there"

Then those buddies were out there with me...looking for a friend's 'parts'...we had a LOT of help from those guys out there. I had a few good conversations with a few different students out in the field....

luke: I remember they loved it because it so much more lax out in the field with ya'll than it was back on station with the Phase BS...remember a real tall dark skinned kid named John Walker?

--Raven

"Work Hard, Party Hard, Hardly Sleep"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I remember they loved it because it so much more lax out in the field with ya'll than it was back on station with the Phase BS...remember a real tall dark skinned kid named John Walker?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I do not remember that guy but I do remember those guys being happy to just lay back and be human again. One of the senior enlisted life support guys and one major (a former enlisted guy) were all about keeping it very strict out there and railing at the students a lot. We kind of had to hold those guys back. Maybe myself and some others were wrong, but out looking for body parts while picking up wreckage seems like a place away from base where you can be normal (and of course still be professional - which every student, without exception, did a wonderful job at). A little bit of mutual respect goes quite a long way...I will fly a few of those guy's jets some day...