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I wonder if Piccatiny is hiring?

[url="http://www.rdecom.army.mil/rdemagazine/200306/itf_m908_cartridge.html"]Finding new and better ways to blow up stuff.[/url]

See, not everything from NJ is bad:



<i>Picatinny Arsenal, N.J.—The Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center’s 120mm M908 ammunition cartridge was recently deployed to the Middle East to support Operation Iraqi Freedom. The M908 is fired from the M1A1 and M1A2 Abrams tanks and is used to destroy concrete obstacles, permitting the rapid advance of infantry and armor.

The M908 was developed in response to an urgent requirement from Korea in 1996, when the M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle and its 165mm M123 demolition round was removed from the Army’s inventory, an action that threatened to leave combat engineers without a means to destroy or "rubble" large obstacles that would otherwise impede friendly troops.

In late 1996, the center conducted tests using several 120mm ammunition items in inventory. The tests revealed that modifying the M830A1 high explosive, multi-purpose cartridge performed just as well, if not better, at reducing obstacles than the 35-pound M123 warhead. The modification also proved effective against bunkers, concrete walls and light armored vehicles.

As a result of successful testing, the M830A1 was modified to produce the M908. Specifically, the M830A1’s proximity switch nose—used to defend against attacking helicopters—was replaced with a hard steel nose. The steel nose allows the projectile to "burrow" itself inside an obstacle before the warhead functions. This fractures the concrete block from the inside out and is more effective than detonating a large explosive on the block’s surface. To date, Alliant Techsystems and General Dynamics-OTS have converted more than 19,000 M908s.

"The M908 met an urgent Army requirement for Korea, and now, with other contingencies, has become a highly desirable item in our Abrams inventory for bunker defeat and urban battle," said Bill Sanville, project manager, Maneuver Ammunition Systems.

</i>

Edited by - Tritonal on Jul 28 2003 1:01 PM

We need to test-fire one of those up Saddam's ass.

---
Pete Nelson
Your Warthog Territory Webmaster

_________________
Pete Nelson
Your Warthog Territory Webmaster

Now that, would be messy!

Castro's beard would also make a suitable target.

"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."

why are they wasting time on THAT when they should be developing what tanks have needed for 90 years. An effective suppressor for the main gun ROFL ( OH how I wish LOL )

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

You mean like this one:

<i>XM1028 120mm Canister Tank Cartridge
The Tank Cartridge, 120mm, Canister, XM1028, is a tank round comprised of 1150 (est.) tungsten balls, which are expelled upon muzzle exit. There is no fuse on this round. While the dispersion pattern increases with range as the velocity of the balls decreases, the dense tungsten balls are used to minimize the velocity fall-off. This program responds to the USFK urgency of need signed by the CINC in Dec ‘99. RAPT Initiative Funding to be used for 6.0M in FY02 to accelerate development by one year earlier than previously planned.

This round meets urgent CINC, USFK requirements to provide effective rapid lethal reaction against massed assaulting infantry armed with hand held anti-tank and automatic weapons at close range (500 meters or less) thereby improving survivability. Additionally, this round will significantly increase the tank’s lethality and enhance the tank crew’s survivability. This additional capability will give the Abrams Tank the ability to survive RPG ambushes and to fully support friendly infantry assaults.

</i>


[url="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m1028.htm"]Link[/url]


<img src="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/m1028_pic1.jpg" border=0>




Edited by - Tritonal on Jul 29 2003 1:42 PM

I'm surprised they didn't use flechettes instead of balls.

"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."

CANISTER!!!!!!!! I figured it had been outlawed by now as inhumane..... <font size=6> <font color=red>CANISTER!!! </font id=red></font id=size6> I love canister... so long as I'm behind the cannon firing it

Overkill??? I'd kill a fly with a howitzer if I had one.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

Now they'll get that quail!

A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down...

Snipe,

Just a guess, but wouldn't the ball bearings 'bounce' better than flechettes. I thought the flechettes tended to imbed themselves into solid walls and surfaces (apart from the soft squishy things they are supposed to imbed themselves into)

The ball bearings might bounce of solid surfaces better and perhaps catch a BG on the rebound..?

Either way, that's a mean muther of a round...



"A .44 magnum beats 4 Aces everytime..."

Infantrymen are quite fond of seeking cover when under fire. So my thinking is that flechette's would be better because they would penetrate most cover a lot better than the balls.

But regardless, cannister rds were badly needed.

"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."

Using ball bearings was likely more a response to "Cost effectiveness" than anything else. But atleast our Abrhams tanks can now "play Claymore" <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>


As you can see I'm a big fan of anything that gets rid of the enemy infantry in my AO with out me having to do a whole lot of work.
(Warthogs, Howitzers, Abrahms, Claymores, Apaches, mortars, Flamethrowers)

Overkill??? I'd kill a fly with a howitzer if I had one.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

There was some stupid film about 25 years ago where a guy was going to take out a stadium with a blimp that had a bank of big home made claymores mounted on it.

OK, so it was obviously a silly film, but one bit where he tested one of these home made Claymores inside(!!!) a dark barn was fun. He set it off and the side and roof of the barn just got perforated and the sun light streamed in through all the little holes.

Even at the tender age of 10 I thought "COOL" <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>...

Wonder if the boffs who came up with this round watched the same film...




"A .44 magnum beats 4 Aces everytime..."

Yeah. He was going to take out the Super Bowl. I think the name of the movie was Black Sunday, or something like that...

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

BR,

I was wondering how you managed to remember such an obscure film, untill I got a review from the web...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Black sunday has to rank as one of the most gripping thrillers of all time. Disillusioned Vietnam war hero Bruce Dern joins forces with femme fatale Marthe Keller - a member of Black September terrorist organisation - to pull off the deadliest attack ever on US soil. Their target - 80,000 unsuspecting Superbowl spectators. Their weapon - a blimp full of millions of lethal darts. The one man who can stop them - Robert Shaw - is the ruthless Mossad agent known in close circles as The final solution, yet he has become a tired war veteran beginning to question the direction he is going. He must find and stop the threat before it is too late.... <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

As soon as I saw Mossad mentioned, I thought "That'll be why..." <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>




"A .44 magnum beats 4 Aces everytime..."

Actually, tht's not why. about 2-3 years ago I was really bored and sat down and read that in about an hour. The idea to use the blimp as a Claymore stuck in my mind ever since

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

I had a retired CMS in ROTC during Highschool. When he was active he was in security police (AF MP/Base defence) one of the things he said they did during Veitnam to defend the airbases in the south was...

1. They'd take a 55 gallon drum cut of the top, and bury it at a 45 degree angle
2. Tape a WP grenade to a clamore
3. Place said claymore in bottom of Drum
4. Fill said drum with as much jellied gasoline as possible( NAPALM )
5. When the VC attacked set of said claymore
6. (apparantly) watch VC bar-b-que.

I have not been able to verify that they actually did this so I have to take the Chiefs word for it, however I think I would want a very good foxhole very far away from any of these drums.... but they would be effective anti personel, eh Sniper.... <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Overkill??? I'd kill a fly with a howitzer if I had one.

Edited by - Stinger on Jul 31 2003 08:10 AM

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

LOL… I'd have thought the foxhole would need to be on a different continent before you'd feel really safe.

We used to make Pringles mortars. OK I admit they are not the final word in destructive firepower, but you could set them off in your kitchen without worrying too much.

Take one empty Pringles tube (good reason to finish a tube, beer is an essential component also). Make a little hole in the bottom.
Get one empty beer can (see, told you. To be honest there where already a lot of empty cans lying about. How else do you think we came up with this idea…).
Place a little propellant in the bottom of the tube, perhaps a little Vit N320.
Pop the beer can in the Pringles tube.
Apply a BBQ lighter to the little hole.
And usually the Pringles tube ruptures, but if you're lucky you manage to get the beer can airborne.
Wouldn't worry the VC, but the cat didn't like it much...




"A .44 magnum beats 4 Aces everytime..."

Sounds pretty effective to me Stinger.

"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."

I wonder if I could hit people off my 5th floor balcony using one of those things...

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

The only problem I see is that an M1 tank only holds so many 120MM rounds and we have so many rounds now that they will only be able to carry 1 or 2 of each....... Guess we need a bigger magazine now....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Do I hear M1-A3 anyone?????

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Edited by - Captain C on Aug 03 2003 12:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I wonder if I could hit people off my 5th floor balcony using one of those things...

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Lots of bottle rockets lit simultaneously, fired from a shoulder mounted poster tube isn't very effective when being shot at a downwards angle like that.

If your pringle tube mortar would work though. You'd probably get someone if they set up, then load the first volley, or after taking cover from the first volley. Then get them while thier reloading, and wide open.
Or maybe just "clunk" an aluminum can off someone's head. (Picture who ever would be most fun for a target. Those who despise fun of any kind might work best.)

"There are itches only Special Forces can scratch"

_________________

Oh. if anyones interest is piqued. The shoulder mounted poster tube, firing bottle rockets.

The concept was first used (involving me) by my Brother & Myself.

I'd be the one firing the bottle rockets. While my brother would reload the tube.
1. Pull the cap off the end
2. load the bottle rockets.
3. light them, then put the (optional) poster tube cap back on the end.

Kinda like an RPG. Yet might require more steps to reload.

"There are itches only Special Forces can scratch"

_________________

LOL, I like the bottle rocket RPG

<i>BTW, have any of you guys ever heard of an "Air Bomb Repeater" firework? Basically it goes up like a bottle rocket but then you get five fairly large explosions when it reaches its highest altitude.</i>


Here's something else, delayed concussion grenades…

Take a plastic pop bottle and fill it about a quarter full with dry ice.
Put the cap on good and tight and leave it near somebody nervous (who preferably hasn't been to the lavatory lately).
When these things go off, they are very loud.


And there are Coffee Tin mortars as well.

Get one very large metal coffee tins with the press on lids. Make a pencil sized hole in the base and the lid.
Take the lid off and hold it upside down over a gas source until it's good and full. Hold your finger over the hole in the base.
Put the lid back on and put it lid side down raised up on a couple of bricks.
Take your finger of the hole and light it.
The gas will burn with a gentle little flame until the pressure in the tin equalises and then the flame pops into the tin and…
Bang…
You can get these things about 20 to 30 foot high




"A .44 magnum beats 4 Aces everytime..."

BR's, Tock's and HP's plans start to take shape...

<img src="http://www.fullyauto.demon.co.uk/rpg.jpg" border=0>


"A .44 magnum beats 4 Aces everytime..."

Edited by - 44hollowpoint on Aug 04 2003 06:51 AM