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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 16:41 
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Reservists say they remain in Iraq with no mission
By BILL BURKE

Members of a Fort Eustis reserve unit say they were sent to fly perilous missions over Iraq with outdated night vision goggles, old missile-avoidance systems and communications equipment they were unable to use.

They had to secretly borrow higher-quality night-vision goggles from a Navy source who ``probably put his career on the line to do something that our chain of command was unwilling to do,'' they say.

In a letter to Rep. Jo Ann Davis, R-1st District, the soldiers say they were treated like second-class citizens when compared with active-duty military, even though they were involved in the search for weapons of mass destruction during combat.

``Our air crews asked, `Why are the active units getting the extra protection and we are not, are we not as valuable? Is our mission not as important?' '' the letter asks.

It points out that some of the soldiers were issued bulletproof vests without the insertable ceramic plates that make them bulletproof and mittens with wool inserts -- ``knowing that the average temperature from April through October is 120 degrees.''

And though their mission ended June 24, they say they are being kept at a tented compound in Camp Udairi, Kuwait, ``without a purpose,'' a deployment the Army said probably will not end until next year.

The letter was written by Chief Warrant Officer Bill Basabilbaso of Newport News, a pilot and flight instructor in the unit. It echoes concerns raised by many other reservists, whose call-ups have increased dramatically since the United States launched its war on terrorism in 2001.

Basabilbaso said he sent the letter to Davis ``for her eyes only, not for public consumption.''

He said he wrote to Davis ``hoping she could initiate an investigation that will result in better funding and better training for the reserve soldier and better management of the reserve soldier once deployed.''

``This is a serious situation,'' Chris Connelly, Davis' chief of staff, said Friday. He said Davis will ask the secretary of the Army to review the issues raised in the letter.

Friends and family members of the 45-man Army aviation detachment said the letter expresses concerns shared by unit members and their families.

``It is disturbing to know that our men and women in uniform are being sent to fight a war without the proper equipment,'' said Kerry Bannon, a Norfolk resident whose fiance, Spc. Gregory Robinette, is a member of the unit.

Bannon said she supports the president, but the letter's questions need to be answered. She sent a version of the letter to Virginia's two U.S. senators, John Warner, who is chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and George Allen; and Rep. Ed Schrock, who represents the 2nd District.

In response, Schrock is ``drafting a letter to go to Army legislative affairs to try to find out what the problems are,'' said Tom Gordy, Schrock's chief of staff, on Friday. ``We often see that active-duty components have more modern equipment, and the reserve components sometimes have equipment that does not meet standards. A lot of times the reserves get the hand-me-downs.''

The disparity between equipment used by reserve and active-duty components ``is an issue we're going to have to address to reduce friendly-fire incidents and make sure we do things most efficiently,'' Gordy said.

Allen responded to Bannon on Sept. 5, saying he was sending a copy of the letter to the Department of the Army ``for their consideration, and I have asked them to keep me informed of their progress.''

Warner spokesman John Ullyot said Friday that the senator ``is looking into the matter.''

The reserve unit -- Detachment 1, B Company, 5th Battalion, 159th Aviation Regiment -- is made up of pilots who fly Chinook CH-47D helicopters and their support crew, including flight engineers, technicians and mechanics.

Most of the unit's members live in Virginia. They include college students, policemen, medical evacuation pilots, business owners and current and former airline pilots.

The part-time soldiers were mobilized Feb. 2 and arrived in Kuwait March 7, accompanied by four disassembled Chinooks the men reassembled at Camp Udairi, a U.S. air base in Kuwait, about 15 miles south of the Iraqi border.

The unit's battalion commander said last week that their deployment has been extended to a year under a new Pentagon policy that will mean longer duty assignments for Army reservists and National Guardsmen in Iraq and Kuwait. The unit's activation orders called for the members to spend no more than 179 days overseas.

The unit's aviators logged about 400 hours of daytime and nighttime flying during their mission, which was supporting the 75th Exploitation Task Force in the unsuccessful search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the letter said. Much of the mission was conducted under combat conditions after the March 20 Iraqi invasion. The unit suffered no casualties.

These are among the issues addressed in the letter:

Night-vision goggles

The unit unsuccessfully lobbied superiors to buy upgraded goggles long before deployment to Kuwait because the goggles that had been issued, called Type 1, are obsolete, the letter said.

``The Type 1 style were responsible for the many losses of aircraft and crews during Desert Storm,'' the letter said.

During a 10-year period starting in the mid-1980s, more than 183 aviators were killed and hundreds were injured in 88 crashes in which night-vision goggles were used, according to news reports. Flyers were wearing Type 1 goggles when some of those crashes occurred, according to those reports.

The head of the Army's aviation night-vision program said it would be an oversimplification to blame crashes and deaths solely on goggles. But he said the Army does not encourage the use of Type 1 goggles in combat.

Few Type 1 goggles remain in the Army's inventory, and most of them probably belong to reserve units, said Master Warrant Officer Dennis J. McIntire, who heads the Army's Aviation Night Vision Devices Branch at Fort Rucker, Ala.

He said the Fort Eustis unit should have upgraded to newer goggles before deployment. ``We want the guys who are on the front to have the best stuff,'' he said.

The detachment's commanders ``made every attempt'' to acquire upgraded goggles before deployment but were unsuccessful, said Lt. Col. Mark C. Smith, who commands the 5th Battalion, 159th Aviation Regiment. Smith responded from Kuwait to a series of written questions.

About a week before deployment, the reservists borrowed higher-quality goggles to use in the Middle East from a man who works for the Navy's night-vision goggles branch.

The special goggles amplify tiny particles of light and heat images, affording aviators a green-hued view of nocturnal landscapes that are virtually indiscernible to the unaided eye.

Still, flying in a low-light desert environment at night, especially under hostile conditions, ``is incredibly dangerous, the most dangerous helicopter flying you can do,'' said Tim Brown, a senior fellow with the Washington think tank GlobalSecurity.org.

There's little room for error when a pilot is traveling at more than 100 mph, Brown said, hugging the ground under radar at an altitude of 50 feet or less. ``You want the best equipment there is for that,'' he said.

Outmoded communications and safety equipment.

The unit's helicopters are equipped with outdated missile-avoidance systems, and commanders turned down aviators' requests for newer ones, the letter said.

It added that the latest equipment can help aviators avoid heat-seeking missiles used by Iraqi soldiers. The aging systems still installed on the unit's Chinooks were designed to combat missiles used in the 1970s and early 1980s, according to the letter.

Those systems are effective ``only under the best conditions, i.e. seeing the missile when it is launched and then being able to fly the helicopter behind something that will mask our huge heat signature such as a large sand dune or building (unlikely).''

The new systems cost about $80,000 each. Unit members said they were told that the Army provided only active-duty units with the systems.

Smith said the battalion asked to be moved up on the Army's ``Force Modernization Plan'' to obtain the systems but was unable to get them before deployment.

However, Smith said, the current equipment ``is an effective system and provides adequate protection for our helicopters.''

Most of the soldiers in the unit deployed without desert flight suits and flight boots, the letter said. Many of the soldiers, including ground crewmen, were not given protective inserts for their bulletproof vests, though flight crews were provided with the proper vests before taking part in the search for weapons of mass destruction, a member of the unit said.

``We even had to take money out of our own pockets to get oil and oil filters for the military vehicles we were taking with us,'' the letter said.

The unit members also complained that they were not properly trained to use on-board radios and other communications equipment that could help distinguish friend from foe in combat conditions.

``Since we operated out of Kuwait far into Iraq,'' the letter said, ``we had no way to relay problems, or get changes to our mission as they arose.''

More importantly, ``we had no way to relay a message if we had problems, or forced landings, unless we were in a location where we could contact the patrolling AWACS,'' or reconnaissance aircraft, the letter said.

Smith responded that the detachment was without a communications officer for more than a year before mobilization. Shortly before the unit was mobilized, it was assigned a replacement officer ``who has done an outstanding job'' providing training on high-frequency radios and other communications equipment, he said.

Unfortunately, he said, some of the training was provided after Detatchment 1 had departed.

Defense analyst Brown said he is not surprised when he hears that reserve units are not as well-equipped or highly trained as active components of the armed forces.

``Generally the Guard and reserve are the last to get the new stuff,'' he said. ``The active-duty guys . . . they always get the new stuff.''

Stuck in Kuwait

In Kuwait, the men in Detachment 1 spend their nights sleeping in air-conditioned tents and their days battling boredom, relatives and friends said. They kill time hanging out at the morale welfare center, watching football games on TV, playing video games on an Xbox and making day trips to Camp Doha, family members said.

Families and friends of the unit's members said earlier this month that they were issued orders to be sent home in September, but those orders were revoked without explanation.

Smith said he requested that the detachment be extended ``to assist this battalion in accomplishing this mission.'' He did not describe that mission.

Now the men are part of the Pentagon's new policy, which means that Army reservists will spend one year in the Middle East unless the U.S. Central Command decides to send them home early, Smith said.

Smith said he understands the soldiers' disappointment. ``But I consider them vital to the success of this unit's mission in support of the global war on terrorism.''

The Virginian-Pilot recently contacted more than a dozen family members and friends of the men in the unit, but most were reluctant to talk, saying they feared reprisals from the military.

One who did talk is Amanda Harris of Wise. She is the wife of a helicopter mechanic in the unit, Spc. Brian Harris. The two wed on Jan. 30, three days before he left Southwest Virginia for Fort Eustis.

``Neither one of us would be so frustrated if he had a mission there, but their mission is over,'' said Amanda Harris, 21.

In their letter, the unit members noted that their continued deployment in Kuwait without a mission ``will damage the retention of good experienced soldiers in the unit.''

The letter concludes: ``We did our mission; it is time for us to return to our lives, because we know that soon enough, we will be called again to serve for an extended period of time.''



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© Copyright 2003 HamptonRoads.com




Edited by - ViperTTB on Sep 17 2003 3:42 PM


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 17:58 
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Waa you take a pay check to play soldier part time, when your country calls because they need you it is problem. Read the fine print when you sign up.


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 18:11 
LOL, easy for you to say Matt. You aint dying for your country using obsolete and ill maintained equipment, and doing a job you recieved no training on.

How bout you go over there and do some dismounted patrols wearing a vest with no trauma plates, than you can run your goddamned mouth about what a soldier is payed to do.

Show some fucking respect. These people are fighting for you, and you are way out of line, and totally without clue.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton

Edited by - m21 sniper on Sep 17 2003 5:14 PM


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 18:33 
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Snipe you have unleasehed your carnage its ok..im sure he feels the love....<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

I'm a Firm believer only assholes hang out on the net. Wait im the epitemy of this! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Matt their is one thing to take accountability for ones choices in life. It's another to send Citizen soldiers into the meat grinder with rubber hammers and Marko Grouch Glasses, and expect them to be Competent in their activities.

I feel sorry for he guys in Gulf war 1 that show up to Gulf war 2 wearing gargoyle Sunglasses istead of Oaklies. Theirs always a Nerd in the community...


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 18:36 
"Matt their is one thing to take accountability for ones choices in life. It's another to send Citizen soldiers into the meat grinder with rubber hammers and Marko Grouch Glasses, and expect them to be Competent in their activities."

Yeah, that's what i would have said if i was a cultured officer in the Air force. ;)

Same message delivered in a different 'format', lol. Very well put Mr Mudd.



"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 18:40 
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I am with you on this one Snipe. Those guys signed up yes but they deserve the same up to date equipment the active guys have. Matt he is right, until your ass is hanging with sub standard equipment you have no right to critize these soldiers.

My only concern now is that the Warrant that wrote the letter has committed career suicide. The unit will get a lot of attention and hopefully the equipment it needs but rest assured some O-6 somewhere in this guys chain will make sure the guys career is killed. I am just glad he had the guts to do the right thing.

Fender
Hands clear. All switches off, safe or normal. Gun hot or cold? No limit, you bet.


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 18:44 
The most admirable thing about it Fender, is that the Warrant knew it would effectively end his career, and he did it any way.

A soldier can show his courage in more places than just the battlefield. Kudos to him.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 19:03 
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Yeah what you said Sniper...............dittos. <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle> I'd swear at him to, but my wife reads these sometimes and she'd kick my ass for sure.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 19:39 
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YOUR RIGHT SNIPE,
JUST A SORE SPOT MATT TO ALOT OF US.

BUT IN AUG 90 WE WERE DEPLOYED WITH OUTDATED MASK,FILTERS AND SUITS THAT EXPIRED IN 1979,INJECTORS DATED 1969,ARTIC GEAR,LONGJOHNS,ARTIC SLEEPING BAGS,DAMN IF ONLY THEY WOULD OF SHIPPED THE ICE!
WE WERE ACTIVE DUTY,IT WAS A BIG PROBLEM AND STILL IS TODAY.
THE RESERVES AND GUARD HAVE IT WORST ALOT OF TIMES.

THEN I SIGNED UP FOR 24/7 4 YRS,ALOT OF THESE FOLKS DID IT FOR PART-TIME AND IN CASE OF EXTREME TIMES,NOT TO FILL HOLES MADE BY SHORT SIGHTED,DAYDREAMERS WHO WONT ADMITT THEIR WRONG YAHOO-WHO'S!

PRESS TO TEST

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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 20:40 
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Heh all this talk of crappy equipment reminds me of my BT companies rifles... I had one of the best in the Company, it could only get a 3/16 space between the Upper reciever and lower reciever when you twisted it... most of the other M-16s were really bad.


Overkill??? I'd kill a fly with a howitzer if I had one.

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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 21:39 
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My brother is in the guard and has been over seas twice during this. My arguement is how come this substandard equipment only becomes an issue when they are mobilized. They are supposed to be maintaining and training with it all the time.

That is the failure. From what I see you guys are saying the guard does not have the equipment to do the job. They why have them on paper to bulster the force during peace if you can not use them when shit flys.


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 21:52 
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not to open old wounds but do you guys realize the more people have been killed or shot nightly in New Orleans than have been killed in Iraq. talk about security. Lets have some prospective. Every night an other murder spree happens here.

Police, Residents Concerned About Rising Murder Rate
06/27/2002

WWLTV.com
http://www.wwltv.com/local/WWLmdrrte062 ... c4b03.html

With the murder rate in New Orleans on the rise, police Chief Eddie Compass Thursday reached out to U.S. Attorney Jim Letten and federal authorities for help.

WWLTV.com
A toddler plays with crime scene tape left after Thursday morning's murder on Dryades Street as his older brother looks on. The victim had been sitting on the steps in the picture when he was shot.


According to Compass, federal officials have access to resources such as technology, as well as relationships with agencies like the Department of Housing and Urban Development, which he says could assist the NOPD in stemming the tide of violence.


The early hours of June 27 are just the kind of morning Compass is hoping to rid the city of.


That day, three people were gunned down in separate neighborhoods within two hours of each other.


At around midnight, 36-year-old Anthony Williams was found shot in the back of the head near Dante and Birch Streets Uptown.


Two hours later, on Dryades Street in Carrollton, 17-year-old Durel Williams was found shot in the back of the head.




WWLTV.com
Audrey Browder, who says violence has overtaken her neighborhood, has tried unsuccessfully to start a Neighborhood Watch program.
Area residents say the violence is escalating.


But according to Audrey Browder, who lives on Dryades, efforts to organize neighborhood watch meetings have been met with fear and complacency.


"I grew up in this neighborhood. I've been living in this neighborhood for over 35 years, and it's the worst I have ever seen it," said Browder. "My mother, my grandmother used to live over there (pointing), and for them to… I think they must be turning over in their graves if they could see what's going on in this neighborhood now."


At around the same time as the Dryades murder, a 32-year-old man was gunned down on Frenchmen Street in Treme.


According to investigators, they found crack cocaine near the victim's body.


All three cases remain open, with the suspects still at large.


Chief Compass has many ideas as to how to end the bloodshed, among them, forming Boy Scout troops in the projects, creating more summer jobs for young people, and partnering with churches.


Over in Carrollton, Audrey Browder is planning another neighborhood watch meeting, hoping that after Thursday's shooting, people will show up.


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 21:55 
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here is another shooting here I could post articles for hours.

Bagdad may be safer than here in some locations.

Students Scatter As Gunfire Erupts After School
15-Year-Old Victim Shot In Leg
Kelly Weston, Staff Writer

POSTED: 4:07 p.m. CDT September 17, 2003
UPDATED: 5:24 p.m. CDT September 17, 2003
http://www.theneworleanschannel.com/new ... etail.html
NEW ORLEANS -- Dozens of teenagers took refuge in a 7th Ward bar Wednesday after one student apparently shot another student in the 1500 block of Claiborne Avenue, police said.

The shooting happened at about 3:40 p.m. at the corner of Claiborne Avenue and Kelerec Street.

Police were searching for four suspects in school uniforms. Witnesses told officers that the shooter and three others with him are Clarke High School students.

The male victim, 15, a student at McDonogh 35, reportedly was shot in the leg and collapsed in the doorway of the Mother-In-Law Ernie K-Doe Lounge, where a wedding reception was in progress, according to proprietor Antoinette K-Doe. K-Doe said she and the wedding party members and guests took in as many as 70 children who scattered when the shots rang out.

The victim was taken to Charity Hospital, where he underwent surgery and was listed in stable condition, hospital spokesman Jerry Romig said. Doctors said the bullet entered and exited his leg near the knee, and the injury was not life-threatening.

Witnesses told police that the victim and the shooter knew each other and had argued on previous occasions.

K-Doe, whose bar sits across from a bus stop where students gather every afternoon, said she thought the fight was the result of a neighborhood and school rivalry.


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2003, 22:54 
Post articles for hours, it doesn't change the fact you were wrong.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton


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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2003, 06:39 
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[quote]

Reservists say they remain in Iraq with no mission
By BILL BURKE

Members of a Fort Eustis reserve unit say they were sent to fly perilous missions over Iraq with outdated night vision goggles, old missile-avoidance systems and communications equipment they were unable to use.

They had to secretly borrow higher-quality night-vision goggles from a Navy source who ``probably put his career on the line to do something that our chain of command was unwilling to do,'' they say.

------------

This crap of deploying troops with ancient gear is criminal. I don't care if their active or not. The gear they need doesn't cost much and probably a helluva of a lot less than what the DOD pisses away on NMD and their sweet VIP aircraft support.

High tech and sexy platforms are sucking up massive DOD bucks while the boots on the ground are suffering from a piss poor supply sytem.

Rummy's transformation is working all right. Troops will be leaving en mass when their contracts are up. Then what sports fans?

Jack

PS, am glad the Navy came through. There is some jointness.


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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2003, 07:37 
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Ok then the problem lies with what had to bring to the dance. Guard units from now on should be getting equal equipment and training prior to deployment or they should not be considered combat units. Either you are going have guard that is support and logistics command or you are going to have combat ready units.

Last year there was a big scandal in the guard with improper promotions, and training have to find the articles. The point is we as nation have known these problems existed and now are suprised when these problems become life threatening.

I love my brother to death, but I can tell you he and his guard members had very different attitude towards being soldiers-- because they were guard and some how immune to regular military discipline prior to september 11. Some guard units have a cancer that is a lack of leadership, political infighting, and people just looking for a pension. Until this nation decides what the role of the reserves is we are going to have problems.


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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2003, 08:35 
You know Matt, i got a question for you about your murders in New Orleans.

How many of those murdered in your city were trained soldiers armed with an assault rifle, in the company of others armed with assault rifles, and wearing body armor at the time they were murdered?

Oh, none.

New Orleans is not more dangerous than iRAG. I really don't know where you come up with this nonsense sometimes.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton


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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2003, 09:35 
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sniper I will never get you have some perspective here I can tell. My point is simple yes things are not perfect in Iraq, but even here in a civilized nation we are killing people left and right.

You once blew off what I used to do for a living and occupational hazards I was exposed to from disease--hate to say it bud a soldiers life is dangerous.

We should do everything possible to midigate the risk, but lets never kid ourselves we will never have a bloodless war. If we fight never have casualties, when the enemy is willing die droves we will lose. I am agree things could be going better but the sky is not falling. We are not loosing, nor are we suffering massive casualties as we did in WW 2, Korea, or Vietnam--until we put this in historical prospective the Democrats are going to shove it down our throats this is an other Vietnam which it is not.

Reasonible people can disagree, but if we begin to argue the sky is falling the american people will lose their resolve we will bring the troops home before the job is done and those soldiers who have died will have died in vain.

Sniper I like and respect you, but let's look at history here. How about Patton at the battle of the Bulge where his infantry had inferior cold weather gear. Let look at our troops at Valley Forge who went with out food, shoe, and suffered a smallpox out break during that winter. My point is the American soldier is resilliant, tough, and someone we should be proud of--fix the problems but lets not be defeatist.


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The reserves will be needing to go through some changes as well. In my opinion sending "militia" to Iraq is overextending ourselves a bit. Yes they swore an oath to defend this country, however the also believed in their chain of commands ability to train and equip them accordingly. Reservists do not live, and breath, warfighting like a full time profesional soldier, sailor, or airman...They have familys and buisness interetsts that also take up their lives. I blame much of this on the complacentcy of the 1990's. When the world was such a warm fuzzy place, or so our last administration led us to believe. September 11, brought that to a quick halt, now we must prepare our men & woman accordingly. Hell when I joined the reserves the last time they were called up was for Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm, before that was Vietnam. This seemed like a distant memory, and unlikely to happen again. Drill weekends consisted of reading the sports page, and drinking coffee with some admin work for the chop chain in between. This current conflict has shown that no matter what you do in the military, you still stand the chance of being put in harms way, the front is no longer in the front, nor is the rear in the rear. The dynamics of warfighting has changed dramaticaly.

Matt I don't blame you for you comments you are not the first to hold reservists and guard members in disdain, but again its a point of view issue, and one must see both sides of the issue before passing judgement.


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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2003, 13:59 
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You should have seen us standing in line before we left for Base "Y". They gave us all our atropene and then when we got to our base they told us to keep it with us all the time, and dont mind the fact that they are all exprired on their shelf life we will get a waiver for as long as you are at Base "Y" then we will get rid of them. Yeah sometimes we do ALL get the shit end of the stick and it is criminal. But the beauty of the good 'ol USA is that I have a system whereby even in the military I can get change. It may be slowly but we can get things done.
Matt as far as the Guard goes your really have to be a technician to understand the politics behind it.You wear a uniform every day and go to drills on weekends and go to warright along side other full time active duty guys. Funny thing though is that the active duty guys also make far more money than I do. Hows this I am a Tech Sarge over 18. Four years of that were active Navy and the rest is guard time with almost seven of that 14 years as a full time technician. Now get this, when I go on orders one weekend a month or when i take a trip, I make almost $1800.00 a month more than I do as a technician doing the same job every day of the week. So when you talk about political infighting you dont know the half. Why should i work every day as a technician, wear a uniform, deploy evry year for extended times to a war zone; do this for twenty years and get told that I cant retire untill 55 or come home from a war and loose a full one half my pay. Dude you dont know the half about guard politics.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2003, 16:10 
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First off I do not hold them in distain. My belief is you find the problems fix them or dissolve the unit if it can not do the mission.

My brother is in the guard and worked in the guard full time for a period, during that time his work weeks were on a civillian pay scale and drills on military pay scale. This meant he earned more money during the week than an active duty soldier.

The whole thing is a mess. Clinton did a fine job moving to rely on reservist more, waht a f88k up. Please understand my belief is that some want our military to be hamstrung by the reserves because they are the ones who have the most to loose when deployed so they will vote with canidates who will be of the clinton mold and turn their heads from tough conflicts.


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[quote]


The whole thing is a mess. Clinton did a fine job moving to rely on reservist more, waht a f88k up. Please understand my belief is that some want our military to be hamstrung by the reserves because they are the ones who have the most to loose when deployed so they will vote with canidates who will be of the clinton mold and turn their heads from tough conflicts.
--------

Yeah, believe the propaganda of ABC ( Always blame Clinton), read some real history. The current Guard/Reserve setup was post Nam to ensure they were called up in the new all volunteer force. The Pentagon wanted to ensure the entire country would feel some pain in a conflict.

Those who fail to read history are doomed to repeat it. Who was in charge on 911? Why haven't we had a full report on why the military failed to respond? We spent over 400 million taxbucks on the Columbia shuttle crash and less than 5% of that on a 911 investigation.

Where are UBL, Saddam, WMDs, yellowcake and a whole host of other bogus reasons for going to war in Iraq. Isn't it thrilling that Bush requests 87 billion taxbucks for Iraq and the US is having an economic meltdown??

Bush failed to take a flight physical in the Guard. I never heard of a military pilot failing to take a flight physical in my mere 12 years of active duty flying for the Navy. It's a court-martial offense.

So go ahead and blame Clinton and then check the history of the current administration. We have been PNACed.

Jack


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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2003, 19:07 
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Hog Driver

Joined: 08 Dec 2002, 10:36
Posts: 593
It seems that Army Guard/Reserve units suffer more from thie idea of "active-duty hand-me-downs" more than Air Guard/Reserve units.

Seems also that the Army hasn't really integrated its reserve components into the whole total-force concept either, as has the Air Force.

In the 1980s, the Guard units with the F-100s/A-37s/C-123s began going away and most of the units seemingly equipped on-par with the average active-duty unit.

Some units even expanded past the active duty. Some examples in the A-10 community being the AIM-9/DRA carriage being an Air Guard creation, and some Guard A-10-equipped units having Lightening Pod-capable and equipped jets, while most active-duty jets don't have the wiring for it, and are just now getting advanced countermeasures suites installed.

Here in AZ, a couple of our Army Guard units were still operating Am General M-151 jeeps and Kaiser M-715 5/4-ton pickups.


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