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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2004, 16:33 
Ever wondered what it was like to be on the wrong end of the Apache's 30mm gun?

Click here...

http://www.gobtb.com/video/224Helicopter_Kills.mpeg

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>


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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2004, 18:53 
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I don't want to sound like I am sick and twisted, but that is an AWESOME vid! Sucks to be them though.

'Alright, HIT HIM!!!' Damn.

"If all the commercials say: 'An Army of One', why am I surrounded by the fools!?"

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2004, 20:00 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I don't want to sound like I am sick and twisted, but that is an AWESOME vid! Sucks to be them though.

'Alright, HIT HIM!!!' Damn.

"If all the commercials say: 'An Army of One', why am I surrounded by the fools!?"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>I concur with this statement

You look as lost as a bastard child on Fathers day.

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PostPosted: 13 Jan 2004, 21:17 
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I hope there's more of that punishment to the insurgents and the rebels.
I'd even rather have those deaths over one wounded, American soldier any day.

Good Work, Apache Drivers.



<i>Rules of Engagement
Videotape Shows U.S. Helicopter Crew Firing on Suspected Iraqi Insurgents
By Martha Raddatz
ABCNEWS.com
Jan. 9— Graphic video footage from the gun camera of a U.S. Apache helicopter provides a window into the rules of engagement that often determine life and death in Iraq.


The video, obtained by ABCNEWS, shows grainy images of three Iraqis on the ground handling a long cylindrical object that the helicopter pilots believe is a weapon.
The pilots, from the Army's 4th Infantry Division, ask their commanders for permission to engage, then take the three men out one by one, using the Apache's devastating 30 mm cannons.

Nighttime Scene

The video opens with the helicopter tracking a man in a pickup truck north of Baghdad on Dec. 1, one day after the 4th Infantry Division engaged in the bloodiest battles with Iraqi insurgents since the end of major combat.

The pilots watch as the man pulls over and gets out to talk to another man waiting by a larger truck.

"Uh, big truck over here," one of the pilots is heard saying. "He's having a little powwow."

The pickup driver looks around, then reaches into his vehicle, takes out a tube-shaped object that appears to be about 4 or 5 feet long, and runs away from the road into a field. He drops the object in the field and heads back to the trucks.

"I got a guy running throwing a weapon," one of the pilots says. Retired Gen. Jack Keane, an ABCNEWS consultant who viewed the tape, said the object looked like a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, "or something larger than a rifle."

The pilots check in with their operational commander, who is monitoring the situation. When they tell him they are sure the man was carrying a weapon, he tells them: "Engage. Smoke him."

The pilots wait as a tractor arrives on the scene, near the spot where the pickup driver dropped the object. One of the Iraqis approaches the tractor driver.

Then, within minutes, the Apache pilots open fire with the heavy 30 mm cannon, killing first the Iraqi in the field, then the tractor driver. The pilots then fire at the large truck and wait to see if they hit the last of three men.

When he rolls out from under the truck, one of the pilots says, "He's wounded."

The other pilot says, "Hit him," and the Apache opens fire again, killing the man.

The Apache fires nearly 100 30 mm cannon rounds in all.


Engagement Called Justified

A senior Army official who viewed the tape said the pilots had the legal right to kill the men because they were carrying a weapon. He said there were no ground troops in the area and if the Apache pilots had let the three Iraqis go, the men might have gone on to kill American troops.

Keane agreed. "Those weapons were obviously not being pointed at them in particular, but they [the three Iraqis] are using those weapons in their minds for lethal means and they [the Apache pilots] have a right to interfere with that," he said.

Anthony Cordesman, an ABCNEWS defense consultant who also viewed the tape, said the Apache pilots would have had a much clearer picture of the scene than what was recorded on the videotape. He also said they would have had intelligence about the identity of the men in the vehicles. "They're not getting a sort of blurred picture. They have a combination of intelligence and much better imagery than we can see."

As to whether the Apache pilots could have called in ground troops to apprehend the men, Cordesman said: "In this kind of war, wherever you find organized resistance among the insurgents, you have to act immediately. If you wait to send in ground troops almost invariably your enemy is going to be gone."

Army officials acknowledged that the 30 mm cannons used by the Apache gunners were far bigger than what was needed to kill the men, but said it is the smallest weapon the Apaches have.


</i>



Edited by - Tritonal on Jan 13 2004 8:26 PM


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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2004, 00:33 
This tape is a graphic illustration of why you've heard me pronounce the OH-58D and AH-64 as the most deadly opponents in Red vs Blue engagements.

Believe it or not, you can hide from them though. Apparently- and luckily- these idiots didn't know how. LOL, they probably didn't have any clue the Apache is there at all until that first 10-15rd burst of 30mm lite hit em.

<img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0>


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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2004, 08:35 
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two questions one was the second guy trying to pull out the white flag if so he needs to go back surrender school--oop he is dead fatal failure. Two what distance would the apache have been at since it appears they did no hear it there.


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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2004, 09:32 
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There's just <i>something</i> about viewing the world through crosshairs that puts a big smile on my face and a warm-fuzzy in my heart.

<i>HIT HIM!</i> <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/bounce.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Now that he had recognized himself as a dead man it became important to stay alive as long as possible."
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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2004, 10:04 
"Two what distance would the apache have been at since it appears they did no hear it there."

Probably about 1000 meters or so.

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2004, 10:37 
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You also don't know how much hearing damage they'd suffered throughout their lives, or how loud the tractor and trucks were, if the engines were still running. I'm still surprised the guy by the tractor didn't seem to know what was going on, until he wasn't alive to figure out.

"Now that he had recognized himself as a dead man it became important to stay alive as long as possible."
George Orwell, 1984


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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2004, 11:00 
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Saw a longer version of this tape. They were doing an arms deal. And the guy had a weapon, possible shoulder mounted rocket launcher in that piece of cloth.

"The day we can't insult French people I fail to see what hope there is for the world."

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2004, 11:03 
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cool vid, but it's been tampered with. The rounds get there WAY to soon compared to the audio, they probobly edited the start of the audio so it synched up. Remember this IS basically Aden/DEFA ammo we're talkin bout here lol.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2004, 12:26 
2450fps.

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2004, 13:17 
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I kinda like the idea of going <i>through</i> the truck to get the third guy!<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

Hajji, you can run, but why die tired?

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2004, 17:22 
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Here's a longer version of the video.

Edit: Link is out of order.



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Edited by - Lunatock on Jan 15 2004 07:46 AM

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2004, 23:34 
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Dude, that link isn't working for me.

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI


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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2004, 08:22 
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something else I noticed was that the dispersion was MUCH less than the cam footage from ODS. Wonder if it is much closer fire or if the system got an accuracy upgrade.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

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<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2004, 10:34 
They're close Booms, real close.

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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2004, 10:36 
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no booms its the diffence of a hover attack where the gun isstablised as compared to a "running-in" attack

the gun is undera great deal of tubulence nad air flow as well as what the aircraft is doing.

It is easier for the Gyros to stabilize in the hover.

Also that above video was the gunner slaveing it to the Laser as opposed to useing the Helmet slew function.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader


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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2004, 13:53 
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Lunatock: Just so you know...I loaded the video from the link you had, I couldn't see it, but a co-worker who had the latest codecs is able to watch it. So it appears the problem may be in not having the latest avi stuff.


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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2004, 16:06 
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You need DIVX codec to view it.


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