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| The M1 Abrams' vulnerable bottom(skeptical) http://warthogterritory.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5509 |
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| Author: | tritonal [ 05 Feb 2004, 12:29 ] |
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[url="http://www.iraqwar.ru/tiki-browse_image.php?galleryId=3&sort_mode=created_desc&desp=5&offset=10&imageId=891&lang=ru"]Photo indicates an Abrams after riding over three anti-tank mines stacked on top of each other[/url] [url="http://www.iraqwar.ru/tiki-browse_image.php?galleryId=3&sort_mode=created_desc&desp=6&offset=10&imageId=888&lang=ru"]The turret is 26 tons[/url] Is there any known mod. to toughen the belly? Edited by - tritonal on Feb 05 2004 4:07 PM |
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| Author: | bigross86 [ 05 Feb 2004, 12:32 ] |
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Not that I know of. That's how Israeli tankers were killed last year by Pal's. A 100KG device was put in the way of the tank. When it rolled over the device it was remotely detonated. "Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI |
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| Author: | tritonal [ 05 Feb 2004, 13:25 ] |
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I remeber that BR, they stated that it split the tank "in half"(!) |
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| Author: | bigross86 [ 05 Feb 2004, 14:39 ] |
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I don't remember that, but I remember it was a disaster/fiasco "Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI |
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| Author: | tritonal [ 05 Feb 2004, 15:20 ] |
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Luckily, in the Abrams case, two of the four crewman survived. |
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| Author: | Lunatock [ 05 Feb 2004, 15:28 ] |
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I remeber that BR, they stated that it split the tank "in half"(!) <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> It didn't appear to be in a pic of the tank. It did look like it burned up pretty bad though. "Your calling <b>me</b> a liar?" W.A.B. Moderator. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/ <img src="http://www.landmarktheatres.com/Assets/Images/Films/36175.jpg" border=0> |
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| Author: | tritonal [ 05 Feb 2004, 15:44 ] |
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<i>It didn't appear to be in a pic of the tank. It did look like it burned up pretty bad though. </i> I wasn't talking about the Abrams I was mentioning the Merkava that was lost in the attack that BR was talking about. |
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| Author: | M21 Sniper [ 05 Feb 2004, 15:44 ] |
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That was a tank that was hit by a US Airstrike after it was disabled. That was not hit by AT mines. Three 'stacked' AT mines would only disrupt the HEAT jet of the mines above, and AT mines are set off either with a rod(obviously impossible to stack), or by pressure. Since AT mines are very heavy, the weight of two stacked on one would set the bottom mine off. Sometimes you have to listen to what you're saying and then look at it rationally. This is obviously not what happened here. Further, even if one could stack 3 AT mines and have them function properly, that is still FAR less force than would be required to toss the turret that far. <img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0> |
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| Author: | tritonal [ 05 Feb 2004, 15:49 ] |
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Can you confirm that it was US airstrikes? I'll buy your explanation rather than the one that was posted on the Russian propaganda website. I was a little skeptical about their(website's) claim when I started the thread. *I also see that most of the damage was from the bottom of the tank. Although the angles do not show any weapons entrances, I would expect to major burn marks all over the exterior of the tank; it looks like the exterior is spared. However, it could be that the combat engineers demolished the tank from the inside, sending the turret airborne. Edited by - tritonal on Feb 05 2004 4:15 PM |
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| Author: | M21 Sniper [ 05 Feb 2004, 16:48 ] |
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A delay action fuze will allow a munition to penetrate before detonation. I think it was hit with a LGB, but i'm not really sure. I don't really remember many of the details, but that was a tank that was hit on the push to Baghdad(i think by a mine...note the lack of fwd road wheels, consistent with a mine hit) and that had to be abandoned. It was later blowed up by US aircraft. I remembered the pix of it immediately when i saw them posted here, just not the details. I've handled and trained with a variety of AT mines, and there are three basic types. Magnetic, Rod actuated, and pressure sensitive. Rod actuated are obviously out right off the get go. Same for pressure sensitive, because the weight of 2 mines on top of it would make it blow up. Magnetic is theoreticly possible, but again, the HEAT jet would be totally mussed up by the three mines interfering with the jets of the others. Even three mines of the largest type wouldn't toss a turret in the air. Most AT mines will only blow off a couple road wheels, or blow a small hole in the hull deck. Certainly an improvised device could be constructed that would toss a turret, but it would exhibit a far different damage/blast pattern, and create a huge crater. AT mines make fairly sizable craters too, btw. You will note the M-1 above is not in a crater, such as would be caused by the simultaneous detonation of a massive improvised device or 3 stacked AT mines. <img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0> |
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| Author: | M21 Sniper [ 05 Feb 2004, 16:55 ] |
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PS...obviously the answer to a 'fix' to protect from mines is more bottom hull armor. Bet ya money the Stryker has a lot less than the Abrams. <img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0> |
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| Author: | tritonal [ 05 Feb 2004, 17:14 ] |
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I'll wager that the resulting detonations from the stored ammo popped the turret because that's all I could imagine that can cause that phenomenom. The resulting death blow had to be a 1000lb bomb or maybe a <i>lucky </i> shot from a maverick...make that TWO mavericks. I remember seeing the footage on the push towards Baghdad of the engineers rigging that one t-72 with 25lbs of c-4; it ripped the tank to shreds. Edited by - tritonal on Feb 05 2004 4:15 PM |
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| Author: | M21 Sniper [ 05 Feb 2004, 22:35 ] |
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That's because the 25lbs of C-4 set off the whole ammo load instantly. Ouch. It was a US strike that made the turret go cartwheeling, i just don't remember the details, sorry. <img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0> |
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| Author: | tritonal [ 05 Feb 2004, 23:24 ] |
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At the least it was a gbu-16. If it was BLU-109, the tank would of been absolutely unrecognizable. |
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| Author: | Thud [ 06 Feb 2004, 10:19 ] |
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Doesn't the M1 have blast doors that vent up on the rear deck in the event that the ammo cooks off? <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I remember seeing the footage on the push towards Baghdad of the engineers rigging that one t-72 with 25lbs of c-4; it ripped the tank to shreds. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> Does anybody have that video clip? I've been looking for it for a long time and I can't seem to find it anywhere! It was Rick Leventhal on Fox News, who was embedded with the 1st Marine 3rd LAR. ~Thud |
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