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Return to active duty?

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0%2 ... %2C00.html


Lori Witmer, in white, hugs daughters Rachel, Charity and Michelle (left to right) in December as husband John stands behind. Michelle was killed in Iraq April 9.
<img src="http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/09/04/20040412113909990006" border=0>

One Daughter Lost in Iraq, Parents Fear Losing Another
By JAMES A. CARLSON, AP



NEW BERLIN, Wis. (April 12) -- With three daughters serving in Iraq, John and Lori Witmer had a family Web site with photos from Baghdad, notes to home and messages of encouragement.

''Keep praying! They're almost home!'' a recent entry says.

But the top notice, dated Sunday, carried grim news: ''We regret to inform you that Michelle Witmer was killed in action April 9th ....''

The 20-year-old private died when her Humvee was ambushed in Baghdad, making her the first woman in the Wisconsin National Guard to die in combat.

Her family is asking the military to stop her sisters from being sent back to Iraq after this week's funeral.

''I can't live another year like I've lived this one,'' John Witmer told The Associated Press. ''The sacrifice that this family's made can never be understood by someone who hasn't gone through it... It's a burden I can't bear. My family can't bear it.''

The sisters arrived home Monday morning, two days before Michelle's funeral, and indicated they would need a week to mull over their options, he said. ''In the end, it is going to be my girls' decision.''

Michelle's 24-year-old sister, Rachel, served in the same unit, the 32nd Military Police Company, which was expected to leave Iraq shortly but just had its duty extended 120 days.

Charity Witmer, Michelle's twin, was sent to Iraq late last year as a medic with Company B of the Wisconsin Guard's 118th Medical Battalion. The Witmers also have two sons.

Army spokesman Lt. Col. Kevin Curry said Defense Department policy states that if a soldier dies while serving in a hostile area, other soldiers of the same family are exempt from serving in a hostile area if they request. The request must come from the soldiers themselves.

John Witmer acknowledged the final decision of whether to return will be up to his daughters. But he said they would have to understand ''how terribly we need to know they're not going back.''


Witmer said he worried about his daughters joining the military but felt at the time that duty with the National Guard would be relatively safe, especially with a military police unit.

''My daughters wanted the freedom of being able to call their shots with their education,'' he said. ''They were using that to go to school.''

Asked on NBC's ''Today'' whether U.S. actions in Iraq were justified, Witmer said it was a difficult issue to sort out, but he recalled daughter Michelle's comments.

''She felt that she had made a difference in that culture and that there was a liberation that went on,'' he said. ''She was also very concerned that if we had a knee-jerk reaction to some of these horrible things that were happening, that thousands of Iraqi people would suffer from a swift exit.''

Jan Pretzel, the sisters' grandmother, told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that by February, Michelle had an inkling her unit might soon ship out of Iraq because members were told to tell their families to stop shipping packages.

''This is a REALLY GOOD SIGN!!'' she wrote in an e-mail. ''The redeployment process (though it may be long) is finally beginning! There is finally a light at the end of the tunnel!''


04/12/04 18:17 EDT

Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.




"Sure, stop here. This is the right place for our foul, nihilistic mood. No place could be better. Let's all riverdance. I can be lord of the motherless dance. I'm a Mick. Bite me"







Edited by - Lunatock on Apr 13 2004 08:28 AM

Edited by - Lunatock on Apr 13 2004 08:29 AM

_________________

No comment.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

My only comment is that from the photo she appears to be a spec 4 not a private....

You look as lost as a bastard child on Fathers day.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

MY QUESTION WOULD BE IF THEY CHOOSE NOT TO RETURN ARE THEY FOR THE REST OF THEIR CAREERS EXEMPT FROM HOSTILE DUTY? OR IRAQ?

THAT WOULD BE MY QUESTION.



PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

THEY REQUESTED NOT TO RETURN AND IT WAS GRANTED.

I KNOW EVERYONE ONE IS DIFFERENT AND I AINT IN THEIR SHOES,BUT IF MY BROTHERS OR SISTERS RETURNED HOME IN A FLAG DRAPED COFFIN AND I WAS STILL IN THE SERVICE<b>YOU CAN DAMN WELL BET I WOULD BE IN MY UNIFORM!!!!!!!!</b> IF FOR ANYTHING OUT OF RESPECT FOR THEIR SERVICE.

AND HER SISTERS DIDNT.

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Dittos Goose. if my little bro got waxed somewhere and I had a chance to go back, I'd be there with bells on waitin' to chase jets and help blow someone up.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

_________________
YGBSM !

on one hand, I understand their situation. They're Wisconsin National Guard members who are mainly in the military for college money. They didn't sign up to fight and die. On the other hand, if I a family member of my family killed...well, God help the son of a a bitch who did it and those around him.

Anyone notice that Tillman's brother hasn't opted out?

Must be a Ranger thing...

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
on one hand, I understand their situation. They're Wisconsin National Guard members who are mainly in the military for college money. They didn't sign up to fight and die. On the other hand, if I a family member of my family killed...well, God help the son of a a bitch who did it and those around him.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>They signed up for the Army and went through Basic COMBAT Training... if they aren't smart enough to know that means at somepoint someone may be shooting at you, then they don't need to go to college, they need to goto remedial education.

You look as lost as a bastard child on Fathers day.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

Something tells me Tillman's brother is settling scores.

as for the quote they were guard they didnt sign up to fight and die only go to college. T

This concept only degrades those who fight every day in the guard for us, basically saying they are too stupid to read the bold wrinting <b>army national guard and figure it out.</b>

I'd go apeshit, plain and simple. Me and my M-16A2

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

30MM Jr didn't join the Air Guard to die, either, but according to him "Wherever they need the gas, I'll fly my ass".

"Live every day like it's the last, 'cause one day you're gonna be right!" Ray Charles

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson

I respect their decision. Goose they are still wearing the uniform.

BenRoethig that is one of the most small minded things I have heard anyone say about the guard. There are many members of the guard and reserve on this board and each and everyone is ready, willing, capable, well trained and knows the danger. Never put down a guard member here again. Wether he/she is a member here or not.

Have you 'guys' noticed the biggest difference between youselves and the sisters? Number one they are females and number two they have been to Iraq and most importantly they lost a sibling. I am sure I will be called to task for this but no one that has not walked in their shoes can say what you would do. The amount of pressure their family must have put on them? Even the National Guard may have asked them to not return, it might hurt retention if a second or all three wind up KIA. Just speculating, even so please don't judge these sisters to harshly. Just because they chose not to return does not mean they had/have no sense of duty.

As for Tillmans brother I respect his decision as well. I can tell you I have no idea ,truthfully, what I would do. Because I can't imagine the pressure that would place on me in that situation. Stay and kill some of the bastards or go home and help my brothers widow and my family put the pieces back together. Tough decision wouldn't you agree?



Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

Fender, i'm sure you've met plenty of people that were in for the college money- not just the guard either. Whether or not the sisters are among them i don't know. Ben's comment was presumptuous, but overall Ben seems to be a supporter of those that serve. I understand your response though Fender. Issues like this can touch a nerve.

As for the rest of it, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I respect that opinion, i just don't really agree.

Everyone that joins should know that it could literally be the death of them. If two of the sisters had died, i'd be a lot more understanding about the third not wishing to return. Of course by the same token they've already been there a year.

Overall it's a relatively minor issue in the grand scheme of things i suppose.


"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

Snipe,
That's one thing I like about you. We can disagree and carry on like adults. I guess it's the respect for each others service and experiences.

As far as Ben goes I am sure I am not the only one that took offense to his statement about the guard. However I apoligize if I came off to harsh.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

Here's the follow up story from fox.

Raw Data: Statement From Witmer Sisters

Wednesday, April 28, 2004

MADISON, Wis. — Sgt. Charity Witmer and Spc. Rachel Witmer released the following statement about their decision not to return to Iraq:

During the last two weeks we have been mourning the loss of our sister Michelle, our hero, who gave her life in service of her country. It has been an incredibly difficult time for all of us.

We would like to take a moment to thank the thousands of people who have expressed their sympathy to our family and have offered their prayers and condolences. We would also like to thank the media for the respect you have shown for our privacy and the kindness you have shown to our family.

As you all know, we have been faced with a profoundly difficult and complex decision. It is, by far, the most difficult decision we have ever made. We have taken ample time to look at our situation from every conceivable angle and have explored all possible implications. We feel we have made an informed and appropriate choice taking into account the well-being of everyone involved.

Yesterday, we spoke with General Wilkening, who asked us to request we both complete our active duty military obligations in an assignment that would not take us back to Iraq. Although he said he could not "order" us to request reassignment, he was very clear to point out that a decision to return to Iraq might expose our fellow soldiers to increased danger. This we will not do.

We have decided to honor General Wilkening's request and the encouragement we have received from Governor Doyle and accept reassignment to other duties suitable for our military skills and expertise.

We would like to thank Governor Doyle, General Wilkening, General Denson and our immediate commanders Colonel Lee and Captain Southworth for supporting us as we looked outside our family grief and considered the broader impact of our individual decisions. We would also like to extend our sincerest thanks to Lieutenant Colonel Tim Donovan, Lieutenant Colonel Mark Bruns and Major Julie Gerety, we consider them as forever a part of our extended family.

We thank them all, the National Guard and all our fellow soldiers for their expressions of kindness and concern. We especially treasure the friendship, camaraderie and heartfelt sympathy shared with us by the 32nd Military Police Company and Company B 118th Medical Battalion. We know you mourn the loss of Michelle with us. Our thoughts and prayers are with you until you return home safely.

"Snipe,
That's one thing I like about you. We can disagree and carry on like adults. I guess it's the respect for each others service and experiences."

I hope it's not the only thing you like about me.
I certainly respect your contributions to this country, as i would hope all the other posters here do as well. It doesn't matter to me if you're a cook, an MP, or a crew dog...so long as you've served honorably, you're a veteran.

"As far as Ben goes I am sure I am not the only one that took offense to his statement about the guard. However I apoligize if I came off to harsh."

You came off sorta harsh, but then you are an NCO...it's to be understood.



"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

"Yesterday, we spoke with General Wilkening, who asked us to request we both complete our active duty military obligations in an assignment that would not take us back to Iraq. Although he said he could not "order" us to request reassignment, he was very clear to point out that a decision to return to Iraq might expose our fellow soldiers to increased danger. This we will not do."

Call me stupid, but i don't understand how that would be the case.

Thanx for posting their statement.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

it's fox news <img src=newicons/anim_bow.gif border=0 align=middle>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> "Yesterday, we spoke with General Wilkening, who asked us to request we both complete our active duty military obligations in an assignment that would not take us back to Iraq. Although he said he could not "order" us to request reassignment, he was very clear to point out that a decision to return to Iraq might expose our fellow soldiers to increased danger. This we will not do."

Call me stupid, but i don't understand how that would be the case.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I would never call you stupid Snipe but this is what I allued to in my earlier post. It may be better for the guard, publically or otherwise, that these two soldiers not return to the AOR. Like it or not politics enter into these kinds of decisions. But you already know that and like me you think it stinks for things to be influenced this way.

You have many other qualities I like about you Snipe and one day we will drink a couple of cold ones together and discuss the finer things in life. By the way your a Vet also and I respect your service as well.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

FENDER,
I'VE HAVENT WALKED IN THEIR SHOES,BUT THEY DIDNT WEAR THEIR UNIFORMS TO THE FUNERAL OR SUCH.
NOT TO SAY THAT THEY STILL ARENT SERVING.
I HAVE TO WONDER IF THE PARENTS DIDNT MAKE THEIR MINDS UP FOR THEM.
THEY WERENT EVEN HOME YET AND THE PARENTS WERE ALREADY SAYING "THEY HAVE GIVEN ENOUGH".
I CAN ONLY SAY "IF" AND YOU KNOW "WHAT IF FROGS HAD WINGS AND CRAPPED ON YOUR HEAD WOULD A FLOWER GROW" SO YOUR RIGHT I CANT JUDGE,I WAS TRYING TO SAY HOW I THINK I WOULD FEEL.
IT'S GOT TO POLITICAL TO FAST AND REALLY A "PR" SHOW.
HOW MANY GENERALS HAVE TALKED TO OTHER MEMBERS WHO HAVE LOST A SIBLING?
THEM BEING FEMALES SHOULDNT EVEN BE CONSIDERED.

I REALLY CANT TELL WHO'S "ACTIVE,RESERVES OR GUARD ANYMORE THE ONLY DIFF BASICALLY IS THE "BENEFITS"
THEY ALL SEREVE SIDE-BY-SIDE.

BUT IN MY MIND WE SHOULD OF TAKEN CARE OF THIS 13 YRS AGO!



PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Thanx for the kind words Fender, the feeling is mutual.
I definitely would love to get together with ya for a drink someday. If yer ever in the Philly area be sure to let me know so i can buy one for you bro.

If you want to get outraged about lude and hateful comments about our military and our combat dead, read the "MUST READ" thread on this forum.

Brace yourself first...it's extremely offensive.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I respect their decision. Goose they are still wearing the uniform.

BenRoethig that is one of the most small minded things I have heard anyone say about the guard. There are many members of the guard and reserve on this board and each and everyone is ready, willing, capable, well trained and knows the danger. Never put down a guard member here again. Wether he/she is a member here or not.

Have you 'guys' noticed the biggest difference between youselves and the sisters? Number one they are females and number two they have been to Iraq and most importantly they lost a sibling. I am sure I will be called to task for this but no one that has not walked in their shoes can say what you would do. The amount of pressure their family must have put on them? Even the National Guard may have asked them to not return, it might hurt retention if a second or all three wind up KIA. Just speculating, even so please don't judge these sisters to harshly. Just because they chose not to return does not mean they had/have no sense of duty.

As for Tillmans brother I respect his decision as well. I can tell you I have no idea ,truthfully, what I would do. Because I can't imagine the pressure that would place on me in that situation. Stay and kill some of the bastards or go home and help my brothers widow and my family put the pieces back together. Tough decision wouldn't you agree?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
I only ask how they can walk away from thier sisters death and not follow through? As for pressure, grow up, they are adults and should make up thier own minds, damn what others think.

That's the part that i don't understand either Ed.

I couldn't imagine leaving without first getting payback.

Maybe it's a testosterone thing.

As much as i respect Spec4 Tillman, i respect his brother even more. He could've used this to get out of combat duty too.

Apparently he understands what the N and the 2d R in the Ranger creed are all about. No surprise coming from a Ranger.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-