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Had a long conversation last night with the son of a friend of mine. The son is in the Army, at least for now, ran into a serious problem and asked my advice. I'll share what I told him at the end of this post.

This guy was initially attached to the 101st and was part of the first wave into Iraq (infantry). Got sniped in Tikrit but not life threatning..didn't even hit any bones though it tore up his shoulder pretty good..had to laugh when he first related the story to me because he said it ruined his movie watching forever. He told me now, when he sees someone get shot and they just stand there, he laughs because when you get shot with a high velocity round, you're going DOWN..not from the bullet but from the shock wave afterward. Because of the nature of his wound, he asked to stay with his unit and not get medivaced to Germany..separate and long story but his request was finally granted. Mid tour rotation comes and he heads home, wants to see his wife and daughter that was born 2 months prior to him leaving. This is where the brown stuff hits the fan.

First thing he notices when he gets to Ft Campbell is his wife isn't there to greet him. Nobody has seen her in months. Next thing, he tries to get a hundred bucks from the ATM..nothing doing, there's only like 40 bucks in there and this is like two days after payday. Long story short, he tracks her down two days later. Seems less than a month after he left, she moved in with the local drug dealer and had been living large on his paycheck. He goes to the druggies place, busts the door down and procedes to beat the guy to a pulp..this with only one good arm. Fortunately he bought two buddies with him else he probably would be on trial for murder..it took both his buds and his soon to be ex-wife to get him off the guy. After some persuasion (we won't go there), his wife tells him where his daughter and car are (at the in-laws). He gets his daughter (another story but at least he did this one right..he called the police when they wouldn't give her up) and finds his car in the back yard. A few words about his car. It was nothing special, an 02 Neon bought under Chrysler's Armed Forces program..no money down, 72 month note at like 6% but you had to have the payments alloted. The car, with 6000 miles on it is trashed. There isn't a panel that's not dented, bent or scraped and the engine's seized. He spends the rest of his leave with legal stuff, starting divorce procedings and getting temporary custody of his daughter. His folks help him out by paying for a new engine for his car and his brother does some body work on it..aftermarket fenders and some other stuff so at least it's driveable. He heads back to Iraq, daughter with his parents and a restraining order on his wife..she couldn't pass 3 court ordered drug tests.

Fast forward a year. Iraq tour is done, he put in for Ranger school and gets it, gets transfered to the 82nd and all is settling down. Divorce is final, daughter is with him but he still only has temporary custody. The courts find it difficult to award permanent custody given his military status but his ex STILL can't pass a drug test.

One Saturday afternoon, he gets a phone call. Report to the parade grounds in an hour. He finally finds someone to watch his daughter but he ends up a half hour late. Sgt points to a small group standing to the side, says "go stand there". When it's his turn, he explains to the Sgt what happened..Sgt sends him to the shirt..who's sitting with the L-T and he again explains what happened. He gets sent to see the Capt and once again explains the situation. Finally, he's released thinking it's done..it wasn't.

Monday, he gets a call. Report to the Major's office. Yet again, he explained the situation. Major says to him "Your responsibility is to the Army". Guy says "No sir, my responsibility is to my daughter first"..mistake number two. Major tells him "We're going to look at your family care plan and we're going to look at it hard. Go get all your family care paperwork and bring it back here".

End result; they pulled his VHA because he only has temporary custody and told him to move back into the barracks. Pulled his school slot and now in the process of discharging him (convienience of the Army). His last paycheck was 200 bucks because they're garnishing back his enlistment bonus (he signed for 6). He now reports to the orderly room every morning to get whatever sh_t jobs they can find for him. He told me that's what hurts most of all, he loved the Army and fully intended to go for at least 20.

My advice to him; Sit down, shut the freak up..and color. DO NOT go off on the Sgt, DO NOT go off on the first shirt, DO NOT do ANYTHING that's going to get you an OTH discharge. Take your Purple Heart, your combat badge, your Army Commendation Medal and whatever else and put them in a drawer..look at them 20 years from now and they'll have a different meaning. I had (and still don't) no other ideas. Anyone got a better one?

Old Chief

We can pool our money and have Sniper take care of those htree idiots. That guy aint a zero, no way. There are always, always just enough dingle tots (thats a deep fried dingleberry) in the military to make you shake your head and say "your joking right ?"
Its people like that , that drive good guys and gals out. They want you to lay your balls out at their every whim but just cant seem to muster any common sense when those same troops need nothing more than a bit of understanding.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

_________________
YGBSM !

I feel bad for him and wonder what is wrong with the leadership in his command. By the way I think the advice you gave was good advice. He could only worsen his plight at this point by getting upset with the brass. Also and this is just a possibility, you may not have gotten the "whole story". Just a thought.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

I THOUGHT THE ARMY WAS SHORT HANDED?
I'M SORRY SOMEONE HAS THEIR HEAD WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY UP THEIR ASS ON THIS ONE.

I THINK SINCE HE'S CRAP ANYWAY TO THE "LEADERSHIP" HE COULD GO TO THE IG AND FILE A COMPLAINT, WOULDNT BE THE FIRST TIME THE IG STEPPED IN TO
CHANGE SOME MINDS",THEN GET HIMSELF OUT OF THERE!

I THINK THE STORY WOULD HAVE TO BE PRETTY BAD,FOR THEM NOT TO GIVE HIM HIS "HONORABLE DISCHARGE",.

BUT HE DOESNT HAVE TO WORRY,WAIT UNTIL HE'S SETTLED IN,GOT A JOB,HOME,NEW WOMAN,THEY'LL CALL HIM BACK IN UNDER THE "IRR" PROGRAM.

GOOSE

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

"He told me now, when he sees someone get shot and they just stand there, he laughs because when you get shot with a high velocity round, you're going DOWN."

I gotta honestly say that does not match my experience.

Some people crumple in place, some stumble around a little, some act like they got hit by a 76' Coupe DeVille doing 40(like your friend), and some run 50 yards is if they weren't even hit at all...and drop over dead.

It's very similar to the various reactions of shot animals actually. I suppose that the more one thinks about that, the more one realizes that it makes perfect sense.

We're all just animals.

As for his legal situation, and i hate to be critical, but his mistake was telling a Major in the United States Army that his priority was not the US Army.

Of course his primary priority is not the Army, but a troop's gotta know when to say "Yes Sir", and bite his tongue.

Still, this seems like a VERY harsh reaction unless there's more to the story. What ever happened with the assault on the drug dealer? Was he charged? It seems like there should be a lot more staring him in the face for them to be taking this tact. Either a legal issue or a verbal statement made by your friend.

The US Army knows who it's top troops are, and a guy who is all the following: slated for Ranger training(was your buddy going to RIP or the actual Ranger School?), a decorated combat veteran, airborne qualified, and retainable for several more years is a top troop.

Does he have any history of Article 15s?(Im thinking no if he was slotted for ranger training to begin with)

Cause really, being 1/2 hour late because you have a junkie ex-wife and no baby sitter is no more than a company, or at most, field grade offense(and even that may be a stretch).

I mean, did he take attitude with the major and get into a verbal shouting match?

Something just don't fit. The reaction seems way, way too severe for the crime.

As far as what else to tell him, i'd tell him to go through his chain of command and ask for an audience before whoever it is he managed to get so pissed off at him, and beg forgiveness in the most soldierly and sincere fashion he can. Short of that, all he can do is file a complaint as a last resort(i'd do that AFTER appologizing).

Still, the man is a wounded combat veteran, and as such by any measure of the word he has honorably served this nation and given more than probably 95% of Americans ever will.
If the Army gives him the boot he should never be ashamed of his service...or his love for his children.

Tell him we at WT thank him for his service to this nation.

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>As for his legal situation, and i hate to be critical, but his mistake was telling a Major in the United States Army that his priority was not the US Army. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I agree Sniper and when I asked him how bad it got, there was a slight hesitation before he told me "It wasn't too bad". Reading between the lines, and knowing this guy as I do, I'm betting his definition and mine of "not too bad" might be a little different.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>was your buddy going to RIP or the actual Ranger School?), <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Don't know Sniper. When he called to tell me he got accepted, he told me it would be almost a year and he'd be going to several different places before he was done.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>What ever happened with the assault on the drug dealer? Was he charged? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Nothing came of that. He did tell me he was crapping bricks for days afterward thinking any second he was going to be led away in handcuffs. My guess is it never got reported to the police which would have led to them (the police) going to this guys apartment and looking around..finding who knows what. Probably not the first time this guy has been re-worked..occupational hazard.



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Something just don't fit. The reaction seems way, way too severe for the crime. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

My thoughts too though I didn't put it in the original post because I wanted to see if anyone else got the same feeling. As someone else pointed out, I'm only getting one side of the story and probably highly sanitized at that. Interestingly, the original sin seems to have been forgotten and the focus shifted to his family care plan. A little about this guy; he's not a big person physically, only about 5'7 and a 140 pounds..but he's SOLID. My guess is he copped a Napolean attitude starting with his Sgt and it only got worse as the situation went up the chain of command. This happened about a month ago and I asked him why he didn't talk to me when it first happened. He said he thought it would blow over when everyone cooled off..there's a message there..and a lesson to be learned about how fast things can go in the dumper if you let your emotions rule your thinking. At this point, he just wants out and is looking at a career in law enforcement, hence my advice about shutting his mouth before it got him in more trouble. I apologize for not posting the finer details of our conversation (it went on for more than an hour) but I really wanted to see if anyone else got the same vibes, especially you folks that wear green. My take is that nobody wins this one..the Army is losing a trained, gung-ho troop and he's losing his dream of being a career military person. Bah!, the whole thing sucks.

Old Chief

It's gonna be extremely hard to get into a police job with anything other than a full honorable discharge.

Even a general under honorable conditions would be a death sentence for any sort of civil service job. And odds are if he pissed someone off so bad that they're chaptering him his DD214 is going to state "Patterns of misconduct" as cause for separation. You get one of those you lose all VA benefits and your GI bill too.

The Army has a penchant for telling troops they're getting chaptered for 'failure to adapt' or 'needs of the service' and then said troop finding out on ETS day that he just got hamslammed with a Patterns of misconduct.

I've seen it happen more than once.

I can only imagine what he said to that Major, he must have REALLY pissed him off. Majors in the army dont grow on trees like they do in the USAF, they're much more godlike creatures in the Army.

Definitely not to be fucked with.

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>

I DONT UNDERSTAND IF IT WAS THIS BAD OF A THING HE WOULDNT BE "SCRUBBING TOLIETS"
THEY CAN DISCHARGE HIM ALOT FASTER THAN THIS,THEY MIGHT JUST BE WAITING FOR HIM TO "BEG FOR FORGIVENESS" OR THEIR SLATED FOR ANOTHER DEPLOYMENT AND THEY NEED HIM TO GO BACK,OR JUST CANT REALLY JUSTIFY TO COMMAND KICKING HIM OUT WITH THE MAN-POWER ISSUES.
BUT YOUR RIGHT WE DONT HAVE THE WHOLE "PICTURE",OR HE STEPPED ON SOMEONES "EGO"
SOMETHING JUST AINT RIGHT SOMEWHERE.

GOOSE

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Sniper, I appreciate your spin on this. I think the ramifications of what's happening are only now sinking in. Any thoughts on damage control?

Old Chief

From an outsiders point of view this doesn't seem fair treatment of a brave soldier by the command, but I guess I'm going to be told the military isn't a fair place.

If he's a good guy, and from what you've said it sound like he is, I hope it works out for him.

He must have a lot of balls and a hell of a lot of pride, which might be what's got him into this situation (by taking on the brass), but on the otherhand it's exactly the qualities he'll need to get through it.

Good luck to him...

And for my two cents, the drug dealer got off lightly...

"I can just punch holes in paper for sooo long before I want to see something blow up/fall down "
- Boomer 5th May 2005

"Any thoughts on damage control?"

Appologize to everyone in his chain of command he may possibly have offended. Explain to them that HE let his ex-wife put the zap on his head, and that he now sees the error of his ways, "and of course the US Army is my #1 priority sir, i am a soldier, first and foremost". Accept blame, do not try to make excuses. People in power love when a troop does that, it shows maturity and a willingness to accept responsibility. And afterall, even officers are people too, and for most people there is always a desire to want to forgive people their transgressions if they seem sincere.

If all he's done is what was actually related to you, that may very well work- especially if no one started to process his chapter packet yet.

I(when i say i, i actually mean my driver,lol) sunk an M-113A3 in a swamp while on TDY once, and just by admitting responsibility i got out of it without any major hassle. I got a serious tongue lashing, but not much else.

Never underestimate the power of standing up and saying "I fucked up", like a man.

Don't mean it will work, but IMO it's by far the best of his extremely limited options at this point.

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>

If his ass kissing doesn't work and they are still gung ho about booting him, he can call his congressman. If the congressman gets flooded with calls and letters regarding his situation from family and friends, they will start a congrssional inquiry (sp). Basically congressman calls the base commander and gets in his ass about the situation. Then the fit hits the shan for everyone involved with mistreating ole boy.

My brother-in-law had a situation that is causing him to "get out under force shaping". Fire fighter in the AF (has 24 hour shifts), and his wife has seizures. Luckily I was stationed on the same base and lived less than a mile away so if she had one, the 12 year old could call me or my wife to go over and make sure the 6 month old was ok, and make sure his mom didn't DIE. After we moved no one was around to help and they now had another young child. Long story short he told a SMSgt that his priority was his family. The SMSgt told him the AF didn't issue him a wife! I don't know what these people are smoking now a days.

_________________
3 Branches down... 2 to go!
Put on your tinfoil hats, the black choppers are coming, and I'm calling them in.
Former DCC OA-10A T/N 80-278

Old Chief,
A few questions and statements.

1. The lowest discharge you can get for not having a family care plan is an honorable discharge. You cannot be given a general under honorable conditions. I had to discharge one soldier for not having a family care - he was a good dude, just had a worthless wife who abandoned him and his child and he had no family in the US.

2. Who was awarded custody as part of the divorce? If he has custody part-time, he should be eligible for his BAH. Worst case, he is owed partial BAH and then must surrender that to whoever has custody of his dependent. Bottomline, if you have a dependent, the Army will pay for that dependent's housing. Something isn't adding up here for me.

3. If he had to report in an hour on a Saturday afternoon, that means his unit was probably on DRF-1 and had a very tight recall status. Being late is a very big deal. As a commander, I'd give him an article 15 for being late to an alert recall formation despite his situation. However, in and of itself, you cannot get a pattern of misconduct discharge processed on only one article 15 (one is not a pattern). Since he's new to the unit, he would have had to rack up another article 15 somehow for this discharge to be processed.

4. There's no shame for him prioritizing his daughter over the Army. The Army is for 20-30 years, his daughter is forever.

5. If he wants to stay in, he needs to get his FCP together ASAP. You have 30 days from when you receive the written notification that you will have discharge paperwork processed if an approved FCP is not put together within those 30 days. Because of being assigned to the 82nd Airborne, he will need to have someone available to allow him to make alerts on time. Quite simply, if he can't make it for a no-notice deployment, then he's not of any value to the unit. It sounds harsh, but I'd want a guy that I can count on to deploy and not someone that I have to take extra time all the time. As a temporary thing, no problem, but as a long-term thing, not going to do it.

My guess is that there's more to the story than what you are getting. Maybe he just had a bad day when he first arrived to his unit and therefore stepped off the wrong foot, but I've always seen good soldiers given the benefit of the doubt. For some reason, from what you've portrayed, he's not getting that. In any case, I'd have him do the following:

1. Contact his old chain of command and see if they are willing to contact his current chain of command. An old PSG or 1SG calling his current PSG or 1SG will go a long way in demonstrating that his soldiering skills are worth keeping around if he can get his FCP together.

2. Contact the admin law section at Bragg. They can explain the decision to take away his BAH and write him a statement that he can take to his PAC if he is authorized to still receive his full BAH. They can also advise him on his family care plan as can Army Community Service. I know that Fort Lewis had a specialist at ACS whose sole job was to assist soldiers with FCPs. His chain of command should provide him time to do this. He can also see if JAG has Saturday hours - Fort Lewis always had reserve units doing their weekend "drill" by working the JAG office on Saturdays to allow those that couldn't break away during the week to get legal assistance.

3. If he doesn't get satisfactory answers from above, tell his chain of command that and that he is going to IG to see if they can get answers for him. They cannot deny him the right to go to IG, but going to IG without telling his chain of command doesn't help you since it shows that you don't trust your chain of command to get you an answer.

4. Worst case scenario, he can contact his Congressman. However, I've never seen a case where this does anything other than alienate you further from the chain of command. A Congressional sets off alarms all the way up and down the chain of command and commanders must reply ASAP to them. Personally, besides being the fact that it would interrupt what I was doing, they were actually very entertaining because the accusations were so laughable. I'd find the applicable regulation, type in the appropriate excerpt, pull quotes from counseling statements, and impart other detailes gathered from the soldiers' chain of command, and send the Congressional back up. I never ever heard anything about it afterwards, indicating that the Congressional staffer was always satisfied with the answer. Bottomline, the chain of command almost always is doing the right thing for the situation and has the evidence to back it up - if he can't get a FCP together in the 30 days, a Congressional won't extend this. However, if he gets one done that the ACS guy/gal says should be good and his commander says no, then that would be a valid Congressional once the IG route has failed.

I hope this helps, but I get the feeling that there's part of the story that is missing. I just can't see a chain of command not helping a soldier out if he is a stud. Good luck.

<img src="http://www.lewis.army.mil/transformation/stryker_c130/images/ICV_0090.jpg" border=0>

Just wanted to clear a few things up on how things work these days, at least.

1. A "failure to adapt" discharge can only be processed if it is started during a soldier's first six months. After that, "patterns of misconduct" becomes the most popular discharge. To do that, you need at least two article 15s. If I had a poor soldier, I'd do one summarized article 15 so that when the soldier stepped on it and got a field grade article 15, I had the pattern established. The summarized was a great tool that didn't take money and served as a "gentle" wake up call. A "needs of the service" discharge doesn't exist.

As far processing the discharges, it takes forever in a unit, sometimes months due to all the hands that the paperwork has to go through and then getting the soldier cleared. Battalion and brigade commanders are often TDY or in the field, so that can delay the discharge paperwork. BDE lawyers are always overworked, especially with all the deployments and some soldiers purposely trying to step on it so they can get discharged. It happens fast in basic training, but you don't need to wait for a soldier to step on it multiple times, you can just show that he wants his mamma back and hit him with a "failure to adapt." Even once you get the chapter packet started, the soldier must have a mental evaluation and physical exam completed prior to finishing the packet. If you don't start this ASAP, you will have a soldier you don't want hanging around.

Finally, you exactly what you are getting chaptered for. The commander (usually the 1SG reads it and the commander then initials/signs, I can't remember) is required to read the discharge paperwork to the soldier, get the soldier to sign, the commander signs it, and then forwards it. Once it is approved, you notify the soldier and then you have a NCO escort the soldier around to outprocess - at least for bad soldiers who may screw off instead of outprocessing, collecting a paycheck for work that isn't being done. The reason you read the paperwork to the soldier is so that he can visit the trial defense service lawyer so that he understands his rights.



<img src="http://www.lewis.army.mil/transformation/stryker_c130/images/ICV_0090.jpg" border=0>

Folks, thanks a million for all your input to this. I've cut/pasted/emailed a lot of this to him, I'll call him tonight. As many of you have said and a feeling I've had also, there's more to this than what I've been told. My biggest concern is that he walks away with a clean discharge.

Shek, I've been told by many people, including my former commander who's now a 2 star select not to get a congressman involved, it's counterproductive and seldom, if ever, fixes anything.

I'll keep y'all posted as to the final outcome.

Old Chief

OC,
Here's the link to the administrative separations regulation:
http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r635 ... %20635200'
All the info you friend's son needs on what is required for his chain of command to separate him is there.

Snipe,
Sorry - "needs of the Army" could equate to "convenience of the government" - I just had never heard any discharges under that title. Your two biggest ones under "convenience of the government" are 5-8 (involuntary separation due to parenthood obligations, or typically referred to as the family care plan chapter) and 5-13 (personality disorder or the mental chapter). Obviously, there's been changes to the lingo over the past 15 years.

<img src="http://www.lewis.army.mil/transformation/stryker_c130/images/ICV_0090.jpg" border=0>

"Snipe,
Sorry - "needs of the Army" could equate to "convenience of the government" - I just had never heard any discharges under that title. Your two biggest ones under "convenience of the government" are 5-8 (involuntary separation due to parenthood obligations, or typically referred to as the family care plan chapter) and 5-13 (personality disorder or the mental chapter). Obviously, there's been changes to the lingo over the past 15 years."

That's why i asked you to post the goods here Sir. I was but a lowly Corporal, and never chaptered anyone, lol.

Everything i remember is from stories i heard around the unit. "He got X discharge for X screw up", etc.

Like you i agree that more is going on here than meets the eye.




<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>

OC,
I had a thought today while I was working on my patio. If your friend's son really wants to make the Army a career, I think I have a plan that could meet his desires and the needs of his daughter. Sounds like his chapter 5-8 has already been processed (I would think you can't start taking back a bonus until the chapter paperwork is processed - I can see it being put on hold if paperwork is started, no harm there, but taking it prior to discharge seems kind of fishy to me). Anyways, he should still keep in touch with his old chain of command back at Campbell.

When you are discharged with an honorable discharge, you can come back in later. He'll need to have his family care plan situation all squared away by then. It is possible that his chain of command could have placed a bar to reenlistement on him, but if the family care plan and telling his BN XO or S3 that his daughter is the most important thing in his life are the only two strikes against him, I doubt that they put a bar to reenlistment on him. Thus, he could reenlist later on (with poor numbers and if done with a year or so, he shouldn't have to go through basic or AIT again) without much of a problem as long as he can demonstrate his family life is squared away for his daughter and having his old chain of command vouch for him, I would think the recruiter would be able to get him back in. Even if there is a bar, he could go into the Guard unless the chain of command enacted a bar to enlistment in the Guard/Reserve. In all cases, you can appeal and often have these bars overturned (this is where his old squad leader, platoon sergeant, first sergeant, commander can help out).

So, taking a year to work and think through how he wants to raise his daughter, get permanent custody, etc., will get him on firm footing to come back in if that's what he wants when he's a year wiser and older. Heck, maybe he'll meet Miss Right, which would make it even easier (not suggesting this since he's probably still smarting, just throwing it out there as a possibility since strange things can happen).

If he wants to do this, I'd have him contact a recruiter a few months after getting out. Heck, depending on what state, going the Guard route can be a great idea since you can often get free in-state tuition (obviously, his parents would have to support him financially and help out with his daughter). This would get him good promotion points credit if he does want to and can go active again, keep him in touch with the military without the pressures of a strict family care plan (i.e. one that requires him to get his daughter to someone within 15-30 minutes so he can make an no-notice alert/deployment within an hour or two). Finding care for weekends and two weeks a summer with the potential for 18 months gone for Iraq/Afghanistan is much more doable. I know that Texas, Illinois, and Florida all have great benefits for their military residents.

Anyways, just a few thoughts on potential courses of action in the event that this experienced hasn't completely soured him on the military/Army. This could give him some goals/plans to stay focused as he goes through a difficult transition, and maybe he'll come to the conclusion that his daughter's future isn't something to gamble away on the chance of being killed and having her end up with her birth mother.

Hope this helps.

Shek

<img src="http://www.lewis.army.mil/transformation/stryker_c130/images/ICV_0090.jpg" border=0>

"It is possible that his chain of command could have placed a bar to reenlistement on him"

A recruiting station commander can waive those, especially nowadays.

I think as long as you've been out less than 5 years you join training at the end of basic, qualify with your weapon, then do AIT. That was the drill i was gonna have to do ifin' i had re-enlisted.

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>

Shek and Snipe I think what you guys are saying is dead on. My only question would be why would the Army involuntaryly discharge someone and then let them back in? I am sure it happens a lot. It just seems so senseless. Why not fix the problem before discharging, especially with retention so bad for the Army? I know they take screw ups, my CO denied reenlistment to a E-5 that had nearly eight years in. He had two Art-15's for goverment travel card abuse. He went to see a Army recruiter and wham bam he is in the Army now. So if a AF guy with two Art-15's can get in why discharge a trained soldier that maybe just needs a month to get his FCP up tight? Of course I stated earlier we may not be hearing the whole story.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

Fender,
30 days is the minimum that you have to give a soldier - you can give more if you think the soldier is serious about getting a FCP and not using the Army as a welfare state (job, no deployments thanks to a kid, etc.). You have to judge each case differently. In the case of the soldier I discharged, he had been without a family care plan for probably about two years. My company was tasked with providing a soldier to the installation museum, and so it didn't matter that he couldn't deploy because he never trained with us. However, once we started to close in on deploying to Iraq, the last thing we needed was a non-deployable. We were getting back our "special tasking" soldiers and he wouldn't have been an asset since he was non-deployable. I did the 30 day counseling and sent him to transition at the same time so he could get a job and support his kid by the time we got him discharged. There were no hard feelings on either side because he was a good guy, just married the wrong woman.

Only the current recruiting woes makes it easy to get back in. When we were getting 100% of our mission, I was told by some of my NCOs that were recruiters that there least favorite enlistees were guys who had gotten out. You got out once, so why won't you get out again? Not a very good investment if you can pick and choose. When you can't pick and choose, you don't have that luxury.

<img src="http://www.lewis.army.mil/transformation/stryker_c130/images/ICV_0090.jpg" border=0>