WT Forums

For those who don't have access to CSpan or aren't able to watch it, this site is pretty good..it's not real-time but it's close.

http://www.brac.gov/Motions.aspx?Group_in=1&Group_st=Army

Air Force stuff is tomorrow or Friday

OC

my undertsanding is Fort Monroe is on the chopping block... Oldest continuously operated military base in the US isn't Snipe

Non-compliant... Taser Taser Taser <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/jollyrogerspaintball/cup.gif" border=0>

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\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

well we saved our big base by the skin of our teeth in the new orleans. the naval support activity will now become a federals city. lol

Linky no worky. Any word on the fate of NSF Willowgrove?, for starters among the bases being voted on.

<img src="http://moveamericaforward.org/Images/Emails/ILoveGitmo.jpg" border=0>

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Lunatock, the vote on Willow Grove has been moved to the Air Force discussion because of the ANG. The AF segment will begin late this afternoon, ending tomorrow.

OC

Gotcha!

<img src="http://moveamericaforward.org/Images/Emails/ILoveGitmo.jpg" border=0>

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Bradley is going. It is going to be a quid pro quo give up if I read the politics right. Realign BDL and keep the Groton Sub base.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

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YGBSM !

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Bradley is going. It is going to be a quid pro quo give up if I read the politics right. Realign BDL and keep the Groton Sub base. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

LOL..no Hawg, that's probably not going to happen. After the correct numbers were put into the equation, Bradley ended up in 66th place, up from 98th, for military value. I think what you're going to see today will surprise a lot of people and as far as the A-10 community is concerned, it's mostly good.

I'm assuming everyone is aware that Eielson escaped the axe, don't know what that means for Moody.

As for the Sub base? The Navy flat out got it wrong. By their own admission, the cost savings were way overstated and instead of 1.6 Billion saved, it came in at more like 600 Million..and even that number is questionable because it assumes a reduction from 54 to 41 subs..just a little Billion dollar error. Little things like programming zero dollars to move the only Sub school in the Navy (estimated at >100 million to reconstruct), 29 Million programmed for environmental cleanup of 32 capped sites on the upper base (conservative estimates put it at 125 million) and that doesn't include the lower base where the real nasty stuff is, all add up to punch holes in Rummy's numbers. I could go on but you get the point.

OC

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
[quote]
I'm assuming everyone is aware that Eielson escaped the axe, don't know what that means for Moody.
OC
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

But according to the initial report Moody was only going to get 6 Jets from Eielson...the main issue I would think is Pope...what did the commision say about them?!

<img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/70th.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/Mav_shot.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/25.jpg" border=0>

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Pope, Cannon and Grand Forks are up this morning. General feeling is Grand Forks is doomed, Cannon is iffy because of the ranges which may be their saving grace and Pope is a crap shoot. Having said that, the commission could turn the whole thing around and do just the opposite. When I hear something, I'll post it.

OC

An update:

Ellsworth survived unchanged

Cannon looks like it will survive but lose the 16's and gain the T-38's from Moody

Sorry Paul, you'll have to wait for Pope. Pope came up this morning, it's been taken off the table until the ANG discussion this afternoon.

OC

you'd think Pope would survive, in some fashion, merely for the fact that it supports the 82nd AB quick reaction mission.

Non-compliant... Taser Taser Taser
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/jollyrogerspaintball/cup.gif" border=0>

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>you'd think Pope would survive, in some fashion, merely for the fact that it supports the 82nd AB quick reaction mission. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Stinger, that's the issue of the moment. They don't have enough 130's to support the Army. They were supposed to get the H models from the West Virginia Air Guard which is another of those that's wrapped up in the whole ANG discussion. Wish I could tip ya'll off on what's coming but if I spill it, there's a two star out there that'd make me into a Capon (if you don't know what that is, ask Dice, I bet he'll know) and he'll do it with a dull hatchet.

OC

Ok, so nothing I was told was going to happen actually happened. For the A-10 world, lets welcome Ft Smith, Arkansas (don't ask me, I don't understand it either). Lets welcome the newest F-15 unit, the 104th at Barnes. Battle Creek, it's up to your govenor where your aircraft end up, the base is in enclave status. Willow Grove, Bradley and New Orleans, gone from the A-10 world.

OC

ALL TOGETHER NOW


<img src=newicons/anim_cussing.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_cussing.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_furious.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_bs.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_cussing.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/pain10.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_cussing.gif border=0 align=middle>WTF are they thinking?

Its 1991 all over again.<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

LIVE FREE OR DIE
<img src="http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5917/scan00020br.jpg" border=0>

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\"Live Free Or Die\"

OK, I am so utterly confused and this completely derails at least two of my ANG A-10 units to which I planned to apply. A few questions...

Barnes is getting F-15s???

If Barnes and Bradley are both losing A-10s, where do they end up?

Is the Ft. Smith unit an ANG A-10 unit to be?

Is closing Willow Grove and the 111th official?

As Goose said, WTF ARE THEY THINKING????

But hey, this is the same commission that is now looking at reopening Cecil Field as the East Coast Master Jet Base after other closed it in 1999 and allowed commercial tenants to build on it.

"The more you sweat in peacetime, the less you bleed in war."

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>OK, I am so utterly confused and this completely derails at least two of my ANG A-10 units to which I planned to apply. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

LOL, join the club Hog Fan, I'm as confused as you.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Barnes is getting F-15s??? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

As of right now..Otis got whacked, my guess is that's where the F-15's are coming from. Atlantic City, originally scheduled to get the Otis aircraft will keep 16's.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If Barnes and Bradley are both losing A-10s, where do they end up?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Probably distributed to other A-10 units, including the Air Force since the Guard aircraft usually have less airframe time.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Is closing Willow Grove and the 111th official?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Yes, they're closing the base. The 111th goes away <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>As Goose said, WTF ARE THEY THINKING???? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Wish I knew. Yesterday, there was a plan that wasn't close to this goat rope and kept 5 A-10 units in the guard, today it's changed.

OC

The panels choice on Cannon was a little squirrely. Send the aircraft on their way but keep the base open until 09 just in case the Sec of Def. comes up with a mission for the base. Now Clovis is in limbo for economic devel of the base until then. the general consensus from the folks in NM is, if your going to close us then get on with it.

<img src="http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/457/bgnrjsiiw81q1gc.jpg" border=0>

You can't be considered a failure if someone can use you as a bad example.

(Sigh)

Well OldChief, thanks for telling me what you know...

I didn't know that AC wasn't going to be getting the F-15s from Otis (as had been planned...to my knowledge), but the latest news wires have the 103rd sending some A/C to Barnes and Barnes keeping the Hogs (thus far).

Like I said...this puts my plans into a big no mans land. Guess I'll have to "wait and see" until the smoke clears.

"The more you sweat in peacetime, the less you bleed in war."

I only caught a little of BRAC on CSPAN today so I will have to wait and see what all happen. I did catch they want to up the PAA from 18 to 24 at Shelfield (SP?) which would save a few of the jets they wanted to send to AMARC.

Ugly But Well Hung

From what I read the 111th at Willow Grove was not deactivated. Not sure how that all works out. PA Gov. Rendell won his lawsuit. The base as it is now is closing though.

Last I heard from the news about Michigan is they are now to operate 24 A-10s, and there is the very real possibility of 12 based at Selfridge and 12 at BC.

I had also heard about the successful PA lawsuit, but who knows how that will all turn out in the end. CT is planning to sue over Bradley as well.

EDIT: Just found a news article confirming that the 102nd FW will move to Barnes. However, it does not state (at least not yet...fingers crossed) that the 102nd will actually give their A/C to the 104th, thus resulting in more lost Hogs for the Northeast. Apparently, Otis is a contentious issue as well, since their military ranking was underestimated due to errors in calculating ramp space (which I heard was also an issue at Bradley) and training airspace areas.

So, hypothetical situation...

102nd moves to Otis, 104th keeps the Hogs and their mission. Would this provide more reason to keep the 103rd in Bradley? That would probably make too much sense though...

Aaaargggghhh.

"The more you sweat in peacetime, the less you bleed in war."

Edited by - Hog Fan on Aug 26 2005 4:16 PM

I'm waiting too see if Springfield is going to keep its F-16's and the 183 tfw The Gov here too sued to keep it from closing.

They wanted to send the F-16's to Indy,which left every one to wonder if the want "CAP" AGAIN over big cities the Darts have to come even farther and if Grissom looses her KC-135'S WHO 's going to refuel them?

ITS A CLUSTER!

Goose


LIVE FREE OR DIE
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\"Live Free Or Die\"

Hog Fan, your hypothesis has so many holes it doesn't work nor is your news source very accurate. Battle Creek presently only has 17 hogs, to be plused up to 24 with aircraft from Willow Grove. Selfridge presently has F-16's which are being retired to be replaced by A-10's from Battle Creek at the govenor's discretion. The 102nd is not moving to Barnes, the aircraft are transfering to the 104th. Ft Smith presently has F-16's, also being retired, being replaced with A-10's from somewhere. If you're not confused yet, you're doing better than I am.

I understand what you're trying to do but if you're getting age critical, I'd start looking at other airframes if you want to fly for the Air Force. If you're not age critical and determined to fly the hog, I'd step back and see what shakes out of this mess.

OC

OC,

Well everyone is equally or more so confused, so I had a bad feeling that the "102nd moves to Barnes" article really meant "102nd gets disbanded, F-15s go to 104th." Damn.

Like I said, we'll see what happens when the smoke clears. The good news is that I am far from age critical (20 right now).

Thanks again for the help...

"The more you sweat in peacetime, the less you bleed in war."