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If you didn't own a black rifle and wanted one, but wasn't going to build it yourself, what make, model, and caliber would you choose and why?

I still may build myself one but for now let's go with the above criteria. Help a fellow hoglet out with what you guys already know about this subject. I will say I already own a Ruger Ranch Rifle in .223 and would probably go with some other caliber than that.

FTR, I meant to post this in the Firearms section but managed to screw that up. Someone please help with getting it where it goes.

Man, where does one begin with this. Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS, DMS, Rock River Arms, Smith, Wilson, Stag...

Nearly everyone is making ARs these days, and I'd be hard pressed to find a bad one in the bunch. My AR has a DPMS lower with a DMS upper and guts form Brownells. I have resently heard that DPMS uppers have been haveing some problems with Mil Spec ammo, but other than that I haven't heard bad about any of them.

An AR is a pretty mature tech, and nearly everyone is doing it right. I would suggest getting it from a store where you can check the fit, function, and feel before you put your money on the table.

Feel free to email me if you have any specific questions. If I don't know, I at least know who to ask. I have some friends who are really up on the latest AR knowledge.

howellfr@centurylink.net

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Slow is Fast, Fast is Slow
Violence may not be the best option, but it IS an option

I agree, it's tough to find a *bad* one. (Another manufacturer not mentioned is Daniel Defense) The only real difference between manufacturers is configuration options/pricing. None of them are cheap.

I highly suggest building your own. It's incredibly easy, you get the exact configuration you want, without buying extras you don't want as a package or missing ones you do want, and it is absolutely cheaper.

If you must buy, I would at least advise to buy only the upper, and do the lower yourself. There is a manufacturers tax built into the price of a built rifle you can avoid that way. If you put the effort into shopping for the best price for each part (sometimes it's worth it to pay a few bucks more for one part than somewhere else so you can avoid paying shipping twice) you can save hundreds.

I had a Bushmaster that worked great. People slam them, but again...mine worked great.

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Yeah Snipe,

Bushy got a bad rap when they first opened their doors back in the late '70s. There early stuff was pretty crappy but in the early to late '80s they started pulling their head out and really turned their company around. These days, they are every bit as good as Colt as far as their fit and finnish goes. I had nearly forgotten about them. They also carry lots of aftermarket parts.

BTW:, in my earlier post I mentioned that my rifle had a DMS upper, that is actually a DSA Inc. upper. DSA puts out both quallity parts, as well as complete rifles, and their prices are pretty good. They also produce LAR's that are nearly as good as FN's at a fraction of the price.

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Slow is Fast, Fast is Slow
Violence may not be the best option, but it IS an option

I just found out about Palmetto State Armory (PSA) that is located here in SC. They sell completed rifles and also the parts to build one yourself. Have any of you guys had any dealings with this company?

Also, a good friend of mine showed me his two STAG rifles and both seemed like quality pieces.

I personally don't, but when I was at Moody, some people on tge Georgia gun forum I used were fans of them. They also did (do?) giveaways every so often from their facebook page.

Checking their website. Looks like PSA is a retailer only. I don't think they build their own, but may be a good place to buy a brandname if that's what you are looking for.

Also, I've heard good to great things about STAG ARMS. A strong quality outfit from what I hear.

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Slow is Fast, Fast is Slow
Violence may not be the best option, but it IS an option

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/rifles/psa-16-m4-premium-carbine.html

They do sell their own brand of rifles. I got a flier in the newspaper about their black Friday sale. PSA 16\" M4 Premium Carbine.

I stand corrected. I read the discription. They are assembling their own, but haveing the machine and casting work done by someone else. It'd be nice to know who is manufacturing their uppers and lowers, but who ever it is, it looks like they are holding to Mil-Spec so it looks like a good deal. What are they charging for these? I like that they are including a good Magpul rear sight. Most of these that you see don't include any rear sight, and it's something else you have to buy before taking it out to the range. Good on them, and also the Magpul rear sights are GREAT. I'm thinking about adding one to my AR.

Again, it looks like a great deal, and be sure to let us know how it goes.

_________________
Slow is Fast, Fast is Slow
Violence may not be the best option, but it IS an option

I went by one of the three locations for PSA yesterday and they were busy as you know what. Looked like a real nice gunshop and they have tons of AR components. A co-worker said he built his own from parts he bought there and it is first class stuff. Wasn't able to verify, but he said the barrels are from FN, which has a factory not far from the location I went to.

If I decide to build my own, which I am sure I can do, how do I know what all is required? Parts list and special tool requirements? Going to trip over to a couple of the AR forums and try to get some info without looking too much like an idiot.

Well, their website answered one of my questions.

\"Barrel: 16\" Chrome-lined, chrome moly vanadium. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1/7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a carbine-length gas system. The M4 profile barrel is high pressure tested and magnetic particle inspected and then phosphate coated. Barrel is finished off with an .750\" diameter F-marked front sight base with sling swivel, standard handguards and an A2 flash hider. Barrel is made for us right here in SC by FN Manufacturing.\"

Steb by step assembly instructions:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/226782_Assemble_your_own_LOWER__UPPER__FREE_FLOAT__TRIGGER__GAS_BLOCK___Step_by_step_instructions_.html

OUTSTANDING LINK Jack! That lays it all out better than I could have written it myself. I've added that one to My Favorites. There's some great info there.

Fender, if you do go with a build, please feel free to hit me up with any questions you might have. I'm happy to help. Also be sure to post pics as you go. Good hunting.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. A quick warning if you go looking for parts. Stay away from the hammer with the notch on the top, and the bolt carrier with the slot cut in the bottom. These to were first introduced by Colt in the original AR-15's, and are designed to tear it apart as it's fired. These parts really SUCK!

This is a drawing of the sucky hammer.

Note the notch in the top left. This produces two edges that catch and tear away at the bolt carrier and firing pin, with the crappy bolt carrier.

The 2 pics below show the 3 types of bolt carriers. In each, the crappy SP-1 type is on the top, (note the HUGE opening that exposes the underside of the firing pin), and the one you are looking for is in the middle. The one on the bottom is for the M-16, and has more material at the back end to trip the Auto Sear, in Auto or Burst Mode. That one can get you in trouble if you have it in your rifle.


This is the better hammer type. Note the rounded top corner of the hammer.


The newer Light Weight hammers are even better. Since there is less mass in the upper part, it moves faster creating a shorter hang time, that is the time from the release of the trigger to the time when the round leaves the muzzle.

_________________
Slow is Fast, Fast is Slow
Violence may not be the best option, but it IS an option

Thanks Jack and Ice, great info from both of you guys. I have signed up on AR15.com and feeling my way around and enjoying the thought of building my own rifle. Probably gonna be after Christmas before I can make it happen.

Well just as I was about to start buying parts, the crap hit the fan. Everyone is saying they are out of stock on everything. You can't even find a complete rifle to buy, they have all be gobbled up already.

The panic buying going on right now is significantly worse than the 2008 panic. I was not a part of either. God willing, it won't be permanent, but I predict it will be a solid year before magazines are in stock/priced at pre-panic levels. Brownells sold 3.5 YEARS worth of mags in 72 HOURS.

Well as we all know things are really crazy right now. I have visited PSA a couple of times recently and they were so crowded I couldn't even get to the counter. Didn't matter, they are sold out of nearly everything.

Wednesday I was near one of PSA's locations and decided to check on a rumor I had heard early. Rumor had it that PSA was receiving around 10 M4 carbines each morning and if you were in line you chances were good as getting one.

Well as fate would have it, I walked in to the store at 3:30pm and they had received around 40 a couple of hours earlier. They were all the PSA carbine, but some had cold hammer forged barrels and some didn't. $799 without CHF and $899 with, I went with the CHF.

Of course there is no ammo anywhere to be found. I have a small stock of .223 that use in my Mini-14. Only one clip came with the M4 and again, none in stock.

Right now I want to concentrate on what kind of optic sight to put on the rifle. Any and all info and suggestions you guys have would be appreciated. This is going to be my zombie apocolypse rifle, so keep that in mind when making suggestions. My Remington .270 is my tack driving deer slayer, so I will not be hunting with this weapon.

I don't really know anything about optics. Of all the guns I own, I have zero scopes. A few red dots, I picked up a used EOtech 553 a few years ago for a good price, but I barely use it (less than 100 rounds total). I really prefer Iron sights.

Believe it or not, I have a Tasco Red Dot on mine that I bought at Wal-Mart for just $30. I even carried it on my duty rifle when I was on active duty post 9-11. It works well, sips on battery juice, and is accurate enough to hit neary anything within 100 yards, QUICKLY. Cheap, accurate and functional. Not too pretty or Tacticool but it gets the job done.

For longer range, a Tasco 3-9x X 40mm scope.

Other than that, Iron Sights.

_________________
Slow is Fast, Fast is Slow
Violence may not be the best option, but it IS an option