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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2003, 14:20 
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The A-10A
The only US fixed-wing aircraft stationed in Afghanistan and ready to provide responsive CAS is the Fairchild A-10A Warthog. Its minimal runway requirements and robust systems made it the ideal choice for deployment to Bagram Air Base (AB), a forward operating location. In Afghanistan’s extensive and scattered battlefield, the “Hogs” have shown their worth against an enemy without traditional centers of gravity. For example, on 20 September 2002 the enemy attacked Bagram AB with rocket fire. The US response included mortar and small-arms fire, together with two A-10s on CAS alert. The Hog pilots located the rocket position, destroying it quickly and decisively.5
The Hog’s extensive arsenal of weapons allows it to fix and destroy large numbers of targets. During Desert Storm’s ground offensive, a two-ship formation of A-10s performing CAS destroyed 23 tanks and damaged another 10 over three sorties in a single day, often while under nearly continuous antiaircraft artillery (AAA) fire.6 Because of the A-10’s extensive loiter time and weapons capacity, the air leadership tasked the aircraft with the problematic mission of roaming the desert to find, identify, and destroy Iraqi Scud launchers. Hogs destroyed several Scuds and launchers, but in the absence of secondary explosions (often the case when launchers did not have missiles), their pilots found it difficult to determine whether they had hit a decoy or the real weapon.7 Visual searches and battle damage assessments often proved inadequate.

If properly upgraded, the A-10 has the potential to provide hard-hitting CAS and effective CSAR. It is also poised to provide the Air Force an extensive ability to survey the battlefield and then identify and destroy both mobile and fixed targets in quantity as an arsenal aircraft. Although the Hog has been scraping by on the skill of its pilots in these roles, it is now staring obsolescence and ineffectiveness in the face.

The strengths of the A-10, specifically designed as a CAS platform, include loiter time, payload, ability to destroy large numbers of targets per weapons load, speed range compatible with that of escorted helicopters, and ability to search for and find targets at low altitudes. Since the aircraft costs only about $9.8 million, leaders envisioned it as a cheap way to counter the immense deficit in tanks we faced in the German theater.8 As an inexpensive, low-tech aircraft in a high-tech Air Force, the A-10 found itself at the end of the line for improvement programs and first in line for phaseout. Since its inception, the Hog has received only one major improvement—low-altitude safety and targeting enhancement (LASTE). Sold to the Air Force in the early 1990s as a safety improvement, LASTE gives the A-10 a continuously computed impact-point capability, thus dragging its weapon-delivery system from the World War II era to the Vietnam era.

The A-10’s greatest traditionally perceived weakness is its lack of speed. Fighter pilots equate speed with life: the faster they can go, the more survivable they are. Many commentators suspected that the plodding A-10 would be driven from the skies over Iraq during the medium threat representative of Desert Storm. Three A-10s were shot down in enemy territory during the war, and another was damaged beyond repair. Evidently, infrared (IR) surface-to-air missiles (SAM) downed them, often during diving-attack recoveries. The loss rate of 0.5 aircraft per 1,000 sorties9 (not including OA-10 data) is far better than the coalition average of 0.9 losses per 1,000 sorties.10 Damage to 13 other A-10s yielded a damage rate of 1.6 per 1,000 sorties.11 Compared to the loss rates of 2.6 to 3.0 aircraft per 1,000 sorties during intense air operations such as 1972’s Linebacker III and 1967’s Route Package 6 in Vietnam, these are excellent numbers and more than likely represent the wisdom of conducting a medium-altitude war.12 Still, a large discrepancy remains between the A-10’s loss and damage rate and that of its nemesis, the F-16C, which—in keeping with the mission creep that has characterized its existence—has assumed many of the A-10’s roles, such as CAS, FAC(A), and even CSAR.

The loss and damage rates for F-16s during Desert Storm were 0.2 and 0.3, respectively—far lower than those of the A-10.13 However, a more telling statistic would be loss and damage rate per 1,000 weapons passes. Although we have no figures detailing how many passes each aircraft made, we can estimate the number. Of the nine weapon stations on the F-16, four are for air-to-air missiles only; two are occupied by external wing tanks; and another hosts an electronic countermeasures pod for combat missions. The remaining two stations are for air-to-ground weapons. Typically, the aircraft carried two Mk-84s or six Mk-82s on triple ejector racks, or two to four cluster bombs of various types during Desert Storm. These munitions were usually expended in one pass. Undoubtedly, the F-16s performed multiple passes a number of times, but the vast majority delivered their munitions in a single delivery. An average of 1.5 weapons passes per sortie is probably generous for the F-16.

By way of comparison, the A-10 has 11 weapon stations and a cannon designed for air-to-ground attack. One station typically carries air-to-air missiles, another an electronic countermeasures pod, and another station is not usable when the adjacent stations are occupied. Thus, eight stations can carry air-to-ground ordnance. Firsthand accounts indicate that a typical combat load consisted of two AGM-65s (A, B, D, and G models); six Mk-82s; and 1,150 rounds of 30 mm cannon ammunition consisting of a combat mix of five armor-piercing incendiary (API) rounds to one high-explosive incendiary (HEI) round. One pilot describes how he shot two AGM-65 Maverick missiles in two passes at GCI and troposcatter radar sites, dropped six Mk-82s on support buildings during another pass, and then began multiple strafing passes firing 900 rounds for a total of eight weapon-delivery passes (allowing five passes to fire the 900 rounds).14 An estimate of four weapons passes per sortie is probably on the conservative side for the A-10. These averages generate loss and damage rates of 0.125 and 0.4 per 1,000 weapons passes for the A-10 and 0.133 and 0.2 for the F-16. Therefore, in all probability, the A-10’s loss rate per 1,000 weapons passes was no different than that of the F-16.

One may account for the fact that the A-10’s damage rate is higher than the F-16’s by pointing out that, because reattacks forfeit the element of surprise, the attacking aircraft is more likely to suffer combat damage. For example, consider an account of the shootdown of a wingman and flight lead after three and five weapons passes, respectively. The flight elected to attack an area that had already launched several IR SAMs at them, and both attacking aircraft were shot down by IR SAMs in the ensuing melee.15 Another account tells of an A-10 shot down while recovering from what was apparently its fifth weapons pass.16 Most such instances of damage to A-10s show them being hit on their third or fourth pass. All shootdowns and damage occurred after the Hogs dropped ordnance and often during the recovery to medium altitude. Evidently, all were hit by IR SAMs, suspected man-portable air defense systems (MANPADS), and SA-13s.17 In summary, the A-10 is just as survivable as the faster aircraft that one finds in medium- and low-threat environments, but it is susceptible to hits by IR missiles.

Upgrades

Today the A-10 is on the verge of receiving its second major improvement—Suite 2, a hardware and software upgrade that will incorporate a passive method of determining target altitude (previously, the pilot had to input estimated target altitude), a searchable database of steer points, and modern aiming symbologies. When Suite 2 is implemented, the A-10 will attain the capabilities of other Air Force aircraft of the late 1980s.
Furthermore, a small alteration in the GAU-8 cannon’s symbology promises great changes in its employment. Typically, the cannon’s combat mix has consisted of five API rounds to one HEI round. Because each round has slightly different ballistics, HEI shot from high slant ranges, such as four or five nautical miles (NM), would hit short of the API-tuned sight. Suite 2 provides a ballistic solution for HEI as well as API so that pilots have two sights when combat mix is loaded, and they can choose to put either the API or the HEI on target when shooting from high slant ranges. The HEI will explode and throw significant amounts of shrapnel even when fired from a 5 NM slant range, thus giving A-10 pilots 1,150 grenades that they can deliver with precision—extremely effective on small bodies of enemy troops.

A third planned update, Suite 3, will incorporate two multifunction displays, improved hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls, data-link capability, the ability to use IAMs, and an IR/charge-coupled device (CCD) laser designator (targeting pod). Although the A-10 has always had the ability to employ precision-guided munitions such as the AGM-65 Maverick and its 30 mm cannon, these improvements will allow it to engage a greater variety of targets with precision and near-precision weapons. The AGM-65 and GAU-8 are quite capable of destroying most tactical targets but are limited in their ability to engage many strategic targets. Having the flexibility to choose between AGM-65s, the cannon, IAMs, or Paveway-series laser-guided weapons will allow the A-10 to destroy any tactical and most strategic targets.

The IR/CCD laser-designator capability is especially important. The pilot can slave this device to a point of interest on the ground—usually by referencing target coordinates—and magnify it, as if by a telephoto lens. Because this can occur in either the IR or visual spectrum, allowing day, night, or diurnal crossover usage, the pilot can identify many targets at standoff ranges or altitudes. Something that looks like a truck to the naked eye from 15,000 feet will clearly be seen as a mobile launcher for a missile such as a Scud. The IR targeting pod would also allow identification of an inflatable decoy since it does not have the same black-body radiation characteristics as a metal target. Incorporating this targeting pod on the A-10 is key to successful target identification from survivable ranges and altitudes.

Laser-guided Paveway weapons are uniquely suited for CAS. The GBU-12, a 500-pound weapon with excellent accuracy, reliability, and maneuverability, can be dropped like a conventional Mk-82 and hit fairly close to the ballistic Mk-82 solution. This capability is important in the event the kit fails to seek the laser or the laser fails with the bomb in flight. In this case, the weapon does not glide or go “haywire” and will hit close to, if not on, the intended target. Typically, after the bomb is dropped and falls toward the target for 10 or 20 seconds, the laser fires for the last 10 seconds of flight, guiding the bomb directly into the target. It is capable of destroying tanks, armored personnel carriers (APC), light bridges, small buildings, and troops—both sheltered and in the open since the fuse can be set for slight delays. Another feature of this relatively light weapon is its maneuverability. It can easily be “moved” about 500 feet from its ballistic solution with the laser.18 The A-10 can drop the bomb on poor target coordinates or on a mobile target. The lasing aircraft (not necessarily the dropping aircraft) turns its laser on and either moves the bomb from the poor ballistic solution to the target or follows the moving target. The bomb adjusts its ballistic profile and flies into the target—something an IAM cannot do.

The data-link capability will enhance the Hog driver’s situational awareness. Ground and air threats, targets, and positions of friendly troops will display on one of two large, multifunctional color displays. A significant advantage of the data link is its compatibility with US Army systems and the fact that it can provide a tactical air control party (TACP) with the relative location of the A-10’s aiming point. If the A-10 is at 20,000 feet and out of sight of the troops providing positive control, the jet can data-link the position of its pipper (point of intended weapon impact) to the FAC or TACP with respect to the location of the friendly troops. This allows the TACPs to exercise positive control by always knowing the Hog’s axis of attack and where it is aiming.

The Problem

The problem, simply stated, is that the Hog is a pig. Each TF-34 motor has only 8,900 pounds of thrust. Even at production, people thought the engines were inadequate, and now that they have aged and been detuned, they are unsatisfactory, keeping the A-10 in the threat envelope for unreasonable amounts of time. Weapon-delivery passes take the A-10 from the relatively safe 15–20,000-feet arena down into the AAA and MANPADS arena. After delivering ordnance, the jet turns skyward and begins clawing for altitude. It is quite alarming to see how long it takes the A-10 to climb out of the threat envelope. On recovery from a 2 NM slant-range gunshot, pulling through the horizon at 7,000 feet at 400 knots with the throttles in maximum power, the aircraft can take four minutes and 45 seconds to reach 20,000 feet—out of most IR SAM threat envelopes.19 One should note that all A-10s lost in Desert Storm were assessed to have been taken by IR SAMs. Such poor performance will certainly decrease the A-10’s survivability in the next conflict. The poor motors also compel Hogs in hot-weather locations to take off with partial fuel loads, thus reducing range, loiter time, and war-fighting effectiveness if the aircraft does not go to a tanker to top off. Also, it is difficult to scramble and provide timely CAS if the jet has to tank first.
The Competition
The Air Force has begun acquiring the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter as a replacement for the F-16C and intends to replace the A-10 with it as well.20 The answer for long-term CAS, CSAR, and arsenal aircraft does not lie with the F-35. Neither its speed range nor weapons load is compatible with CAS and CSAR missions. The F-35 will allow carriage of two air-to-ground weapons routinely, and its single-barrel 25 mm cannon will hardly prove capable in the air-to-ground role. If push comes to shove, seven air-to-ground weapon stations (with no stealth capability) could be made available, which still does not match the A-10’s 10 stations and GAU-8 Avenger. Although it is certainly a suitable replacement for the F-16C, at almost three times the cost of the A-10 and with less weapons capability, the F-35 is no bargain.21 Upgrading the A-10, however, is a bargain.
What We Need
The Air Force must outlay funding for CAS and CSAR commensurate with its spending on air dominance and SEAD. Any aircraft that meets the requirements of an excellent CAS or CSAR platform can fulfill the heavy-interdiction mission of the arsenal aircraft. The A-10 appears suitable for these tasks today. However, at the rate high-technology weapons are proliferating and at the rate the venerable Hog is deteriorating, attrition will become unacceptable in the near future, leaving no aircraft in the Air Force inventory designed for CAS—one of our most important missions. This failure, which represents a break in faith with our ground forces, must be remedied. To make the A-10 minimally acceptable for combat operations in the near to mid future, the Air Force must take action.
Continue to Fund Suite 3

This improvement includes a pod that will enable target identification and effective weapon employment at standoff altitudes and ranges. Furthermore, it will allow the A-10 to communicate effectively in the positive-control CAS environment and will permit the use of IAMs for flexibility in striking both tactical and strategic targets.
Upgrade the A-10’s Engines

Without such an upgrade, the excessive time to climb to safe altitudes will continue to plague the A-10. The increase in payload resulting from the variety of weapons allowed by Suite 3, coupled with current engine deterioration and the increasing use of the aircraft in hot-weather environments, makes the current power plant unsatisfactory. More powerful engines will allow more efficient and quicker deployments, higher standoff altitudes, greater payloads, acceptable hot-weather operations, and—most importantly—increased survivability. To cite one example, General Electric’s proposed TF34-GE-100B engine for the A-10 would provide 15 percent more sea-level thrust and about 30 percent more thrust at altitude with improved thrust-specific fuel consumption. Cost for the fleet of about 370 A-10s with flight-testing would come to about $1 billion—the equivalent of 12 F-22s or 33 F-35s.
Add a Missile Warning System

Short-range IR missiles such as MANPADS, SA-9s, and -13s have extremely short fly-out times, are difficult to pick up visually, trigger no radar-warning receivers, and are lethal. As mentioned previously, A-10s have a history of trouble with IR SAMs. A missile warning system can detect the plume of an inbound missile and trigger the aircraft to begin dispensing flares while telling the pilot to maneuver. Such a system would greatly enhance A-10 survivability. The Hog’s susceptibility to tail shots by IR missiles and its small IR signature from the front calls for a system that would cover only the six-o’clock area of the aircraft—perhaps a 60–90 degree cone around the longitudinal axis. Such a limited system would be relatively cheap and greatly increase the A-10’s chances in the next war.
Add a Towed Decoy

A towed decoy trails the aircraft and is designed to attract radar-guided weapons, thus affording some measure of protection. Such systems are widely fielded—but not on the A-10. The Hog’s dual-rail adapter, which carries two AIM-9 air-to-air missiles, could accommodate such a system, allowing use of the AIM-9s at the same time that the towed decoys are either stored in a housing in the adapter or deployed and working. This configuration would have the double advantage of retaining the weapon station and increasing survivability.
Develop a New API Round and HEI Heavy Combat Mix

The extremely useful GAU-8 30 mm cannon is flexible enough to defeat a main battle tank and strafe enemy troops. The Hog driver can make more than 10 lethal passes to expend the weapon’s 1,150 rounds. Currently, A-10s carry either combat mixes (one HEI round to five API rounds) or loads of all-HEI rounds. But political and environmental issues associated with depleted-uranium API may not allow employment of this round in all arenas, perhaps limiting A-10s to all-HEI loads. We need to acquire new API rounds. Less penetration is an acceptable consequence of being allowed to use the weapon in all theaters. On the one hand, in a theater where main battle tanks are expected in large numbers, A-10s could use depleted-uranium API rounds. On the other hand, targets such as trucks, troops, APCs, and the occasional tank call for a more useful general-purpose load of two HEI rounds to one environmentally friendly API round, giving Hog drivers great flexibility. If the target is soft, they can shoot from 5 NM slant range and 18,000 feet above the ground into as close as they like, use the HEI pipper, and expect excellent results. If the target is a truck, they can do the same and expect good incendiary effects and penetration. An APC or a tank, however, would require a Maverick, laser-guided bomb, or a closer-range shot. In situations encountered in Afghanistan, where targets often consisted of small groups of men, this surgical tool would shine. The HEI heavy load would be especially effective against troops, laying down a grouping of hand-grenade-like munitions. With a five-mil radian dispersion, a 2 NM shot would produce a 30-foot-radius impact area (assuming a vertical projection). Skilled pipper placement and the localized effects of the HEI would allow the strafing of targets to within perhaps 150 feet of a parallel line of “hunkered down” friendly troops. The gun would provide an excellent range of destructive ability against a variety of targets with an improved HEI heavy load.
Acquire a Helmet-Mounted Display for Air-to-Ground Operations

A helmet-mounted display (HMD), which projects information onto the pilot’s helmet visor, would allow the pilot to look at a visually acquired target, overlay a designation point displayed on the HMD, command the system to derive approximate coordinates and elevation via HOTAS, and slave the IR/CCD laser designator to the target—all in a matter of seconds. Immediate attack with precision weapons could follow, or, if the Hog is acting as a FAC, the pilot could catalog the point for a later CAS strike. Moderate testing of the Viper IV helmet and associated helmet-tracking system confirms their usability in such a role.22 An HMD would allow for quick and efficient collection of target data and subsequent target destruction.
Conclusion
With these improvements, the A-10 would become a viable CAS, CSAR, and heavy-interdiction arsenal aircraft until the end of its predicted service life in 2028 or until it is replaced by what the Air Force really needs—the next-generation attack aircraft. In the meantime, improvements to the Hog would dramatically increase the Air Force’s firepower at relatively low cost and with little financial risk. The arsenal aircraft would become both a force multiplier and a dollar multiplier, producing significantly more “bang for the buck” than the F-35 in this role. For these reasons, the Air Force should expend resources for CAS, CSAR, and heavy-interdiction arsenal aircraft commensurate with those for its other programs.

This is part of an article found here:

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airc ... reton.html

Has everyone already read this? Any and all comments are welcome.


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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2003, 16:03 
Pretty good article.

"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."


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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2003, 16:08 
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[quote]


Upgrades

When Suite 2 is implemented, the A-10 will attain the capabilities of other Air Force aircraft of the late 1980s.
--------

Sweet article and the Force is starting to dump the A-10. Irony is they are keeping the AC-130 forever.

I have one source that reported to me out of 27 odd A-10s they could only get 2 up in the States. Big hint they don't want to support the Hog much longer. MX types will do damn near anything to generate a bird. Without parts, they can't do it.

Hogs just make too much common sense. It ain't gold plated enough.

Jack


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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2003, 00:40 
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Every time I here about upgrading the engines, there is always an excuse why it will not work, not how do we make it work.

If an engine upgrade is made, it should be a real upgrade. It would be easy to just bolt-on TF34-GE-100Bs but it is essentially the same engine. If the expense of an engine upgrade is made, it should be a real one.

An example is the evolution then revolution of engines on the KC135.


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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2003, 13:47 
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I'm hesitant to get into this, so without getting real deep into details, here it goes a simple outline of a very complex problem. When I was still in the loop, our office worked the engine issue.
The engines were never "detuned" and unfortunately on a fighter you just don't bolt on new engines and go have a nice day.
When we were orginally tasked to work the engine issue the one ground rule we couldn't use for justification was maintenance.
From the big picture, compared to some of the other airframes, the A-10 was in much better shape when looking at MC rates, holes in engine bays,lack of parts, etc. So trying to sell new engines from that angle was a dead issue.
The role of the A-10 has changed significantly since it first rolled out the door. More of it's mission profiles are mid to high level altitudes instead of the down in the dirt flying in Europe. However the O'plan for the A-10 never changed, so technically on paper the A-10 was still performing the job it was intended to do. That was fixed to more correctly reflect what the A-10 is doing today. This change outlined requirements for higher altitude missions and hot/heavy takeoffs. This then was the basis for the argument that the A-10 could no longer perform what was required and for reasons of safety, more powerful engines were required.
Now that the documenation now squares with what everybody else already knew, the easy part is done. Getting the money is a whole 'nother story I won't even get into.
Here are some of the issues that had to be considered to hang a new engine on the jet. Note these are NOT reasons why it can't be done, just the realistic challenges that have to be addressed.....
- MONEY
no comments
- Who's engine are we going to use?
evryone assumes the TF-34XX was it, but there were others looked at
- assuming the TF-34XX was used.....
- The engine is physically larger
it's heavier
- Will need a larger nacelle
more weight and design challenges
- More thrust
requires a beefup of the bulk heads for the engine mounting
again more weight and more design work
- AFT CG problems due to the added weight
possible counter weight added to the nose
- Increased drag due to the larger fan area and nacelle
- Reduced useful/fuel load due to the added weight
- Possible changes in flight characteristics due to weight
and the effect of the larger fans.
- Single engine yaw issues
- Flight testing issues
- T.O. and flight manual changes
- Training issues MX and OPS
- Supply issues
- Implementation issues...who gets the new jets first?

I'm just scratching the surface. All of this can be worked out and is do-able. But here is the real kick in the pants. If they said today we've got the money go do it, there isn't enough time before the sunset date comes due.
There will not be enough time to get this all done before the cut off that says you can not expend money for a modification when there are only X number of years left that a weapon system will be in service.
I can't remember how much time that is. I want to say it's 14 years.
Dice help me out here.
If you say hey we've got 25 yeas before 2028. Keep in mind that is when the last of them will be flying. The phase out will likely start much sooner than that. And if you've had any experience with military procurement.......well you get the picture.

Reality bites
Cheers
db





Being responsible means sometimes pissing people off.
Gen Colin Powell ret


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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2003, 13:55 
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PS
Since it's unlikely there will be new engines, then the focus should be on P.E. and new defensive systems. They are comparatively cheaper which means when the big boys rack and stack their want list it's an easier sell than a billion dollar mod.
And it can also be implemented sooner.
Cheers again
db

Being responsible means sometimes pissing people off.
Gen Colin Powell ret


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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2003, 14:20 
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^^ <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly but well hung!
http://www.warthogpen.com


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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2003, 14:29 
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[quote]
PS
They are comparatively cheaper which means when the big boys rack and stack their want list it's an easier sell than a billion dollar mod.
And it can also be implemented sooner.
-----------------

They got the bucks. It's the big boys not wanting to keep the Hog and most of them never wanted it in the first place.

Big hint is when they can pop 10 billion or so this year for NMD and it's cooked tests.

Nice points on Hog updates. Not sure yaw is that big of deal with higher thrust. Convairs upgraded to T-56s, which basically doubled their HP and not much problem. S-2 series has had some turbine upgrades.

Am pretty sure they are running a bizjet engine which is the basic Hog motor with FADEC and it's 30% or so more power. It should hang in the hole fairly well.

The Hog has no real support in Congress or the Perfumed Princes of the Pentagon. It's not in production and already scheduled for retirement. The Stars can't find a sweet MIC gig supporting the Hog in retirement vice other gold plated aircraft.

Jack


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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2003, 17:02 
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EzyJack,

I think you are a bit too pessitmistic about the higher ups and their opinion of the Hog. I have personally attended a briefing by General Hornberg (ACC commander) where he claimed that the air force could not do its mission without the A10. Also read the official response from the Air Force side of the pentagon to those FALSE rumors about some general writing a report on how to get rid of the Hog within a year. It says pretty much the same thing.

I have a friend who is a flight test engineer on A10s. He was at Eglin and now is at Edwards. He said there is plenty of cash going into A10 upgrades like the above mentioned suite 2 and the newer suite 3. Nicer HOTAS and a baby version of the FDL are in the works as well. Weapons pods, new weapons, etc...are all programs currently being worked on. The point is - the A10 would already be dead if it had no support from up high. There are LOTS of A10 fans in high places. Chuck Horner's son is the SQ/CC at the DM operational unit right now. I think the Generals get it that the A10 works well and does a mission not suited for other aircraft - they saw the A10 kick ass and fly nearly 2/3rds of the fighter missions in this last war...

We should all not forget about the guard who will probably be flying the A10 much longer than active duty forces...new engines are not an impossibility for them...


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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2003, 18:34 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Also read the official response from the Air Force side of the pentagon to those FALSE rumors about some general writing a report on how to get rid of the Hog within a year. It says pretty much the same thing.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Hey Luke -

Just because it's official doesn't mean it wasn't political. Fact is there was a draft about getting rid of the active duty Hogs.

I agree, EzyJack views the world through a half-empty glass, but most of what he says about the way the A-10 is viewed at certain levels is true.



ATTACK!


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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2003, 18:43 
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You guys don't have a clues what is really going on (and no I can't say) and are mixing rumor with real info, only fueling more rumors.

You should wait a few months (first of the year at the latest) and everyone will know the fate of the A-10 until then, belive only about half of what you hear and trust about 10% of that.

Sorry to be blunt but the info in this thread alone is half-truths, rumors, and misinformation which will lead to more half-truths, rumors, and misinformation.

Ugly but well hung!
http://www.warthogpen.com

Edited by - Dice on Jul 22 2003 5:45 PM


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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2003, 18:56 
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Dice,

Are you talking the 1st of the fiscal or calender year?
Myself and a lot of my co-workers are really wondering.



"Coming to an UNDISCLOSED location near YOU..."

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Put on your tinfoil hats, the black choppers are coming, and I'm calling them in.
Former DCC OA-10A T/N 80-278


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PostPosted: 23 Jul 2003, 04:46 
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calender year

Ugly but well hung!
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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2003, 03:26 
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its a great article....

i don't want to take sides i can understand both points of view...
I think that one of the reasons the A-10 isn't gunna get these upgrades soon is because it does unfortuanetly get some bad press... it also seems that the Air force is more interested in helicopters in the CAS mission... you only have to read an article on the apache to see just how much arse-kissing goes on...
that bit is unfair...

on the other side...
I think the airfoce is looking foreward, and they are going to have to replace the hog eventually, so why not now? Well the f-35 isn't ready yet and although it is hoped that it will be ready by 2015 it probably wont intil atleast 2020... I think that the airforce just needs to realise this... hey... the sme things happening in Australia... we are also signing up for the f-35... but our hornets are getting very old... so now theyare starting to look at interim sulutions... (hopefully the eurofighter typhoon!!!)

well thats my idea on the situation... i can only belive what you guys tell me..

see ya
Ivan


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