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http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/27/opinion/27CORA.html

Without Geospacial Intelligence You're Nowhere

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\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson

It's probably worse than this article claims. Maybe far worse.

I fear our beloved Hog is on the way out.

"Trample the wounded...hurdle the dead"

Looks like we got a new number for all those guys who ask when the ax is gonna fall.

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

Did anyone expect anything else? I mean, she does great...proves how much she is needed...so in the typical government way..if it ain't broke...brake it!!!

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If you can't go fast...go Ugly

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Still painful to watch though.....

"Trample the wounded...hurdle the dead"

maybee it IS time to strip the "stars and bars" off her, and send her to boot camp for the Army.

Our only solace is that the General made the request before the war stories about the Hawg got well known( AGAIN), but it probobly wont make a diff <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

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The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

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Still painful to watch though.....

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I agree totally..especially as a former maintainer...I miss the old girl...and will miss her even more when she is out of the inventory...

Brought to you by your friendly neighborhood moderator...

If you can't go fast...go Ugly

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> maybee it IS time to strip the "stars and bars" off her, and send her to boot camp for the Army.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Isn't there some law saying that everything with fixed wings and goes above a certain speed belongs to the Air Farce? Isn't that why the Cheyenne helicopter program was cancelled? Because it used small wings and the rotor to reach optimal/attack speed, or something to that effect.

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

Good article, damn blue suiters.<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

Stupid higher faster longer doctrine is coming back with a vengeance. I thought Boyd straightened all this bullshit out, guess some people dont like to get dirty.

<i>Integrity first-service before self-Excellence in all we do</i>

BR, no.

The 1947 Key West agreement btw the USAF and US Army prohibits US Army fixed wing aircraft over a certain wieght limit.



"Trample the wounded...hurdle the dead"

I'm assuming that the A-10 is WAY over this limit.

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

Yup. Waaaaaaaaaaay over.

"Trample the wounded...hurdle the dead"

I read this article and shake my head, yet again. Shades of 1989/90 all over. I always felt that CAS was seemingly, in the eyes of the AF generals, a "third rate" mission to them; even though it should be #1, IMO. And it always seemed like no matter how much someone joked about we Hog pilots being the "bastard stepchildren" of the fighter community, another "pointy-nose general" comes along to make that name stick.

When the whole idea of getting rid of the Hog the first time, and replacing it with the A-16 version of the Lawn Dart came about, I thought (as an outsider civilian) that if the AF doesn't want the CAS mission nor the A-10, why fight tooth and nail to keep the Army fro having it? I mean, if they hate it so much, then give the mission and the planes to the service that would love to have it, the Army. To the Army, the A-10 would be the F-22 of their service, esteem-wise. They'd dump all their dollars into it, and the Air Force would be able to wash it's hands of the perceived "filth" of CAS and get on with their love of interdiction and air dominance. The Army would be able to do it's own CAS much like Marine air does for the Corps, and the AF wouldn't owe anything to the Army.

But the AF had the assertion that "we don't that toy, but no one else can have it either (or probably the $$$ that'd come with the mission), so they kept the A-10 around with minimal support and upgrades only when necessary. It's too bad that we seem to be reliving 1989/90 all over again.

But, if the brass wants it's latest and greatest toys such as the F/A-22, the F-35, and that P.O.S. called the Osprey, then they're gonna have to find the $$$ somewhere. And why keep a tried-and-true attack platform around? Simply because it work well and does it's job great?

IMO, the Pentagon should offer the Hogs to the Army if they want them. I forsee the Hogs leaving the active duty begining not too long from now, but remaining in the Reserve and Guard for a while, since the state's seem to take care of their private air-forces, so to speak, funding-wise (having to only worry about a wing or two, rather than an entire AF), and can go to their respective US Senators' if need be. Although, I've also heard rumor of an A-10 guard/reserve unit possibly trading in their Hogs for F-15Es, the first guard/reserve unit to do so if the rumor is true, for now only a rumor.

Time will tell.

kill the RAH-66 Commanche and buy the Hogs.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

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The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

The sheer absurdity of this whole thing boggles the mind. I think that out of all AirForce combat airframes to date, the A10 could easily be labeled one of the (if not THE) most well designed, simple, effective, and TOUGH ones there has ever been. ARE THEY DAFT? Why can't they see the sheer genius in keeping the A10 (or building NEW ones!) and perhaps even UPGRADING it w/ better engines, more space age materials, better avionics into the most fearsome CAS platform ever created X1000000!!! People once thought of calling the A10 the Devil's Cross...why not make it better and call it the Flying Nightmare??? It fills such a niche it's not even funny...slower than a lawn dart, faster than a helo, and tough as nails...J. H. C., why can't they go after something else? Something that NEEDS to be phased out. Jeez Louise.

"Speed puts me in the zone."

We've all done it before, let's do it again! Here's Sentor John Warner, the Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee's "contact me" web address. I suggest we all do just that and contact him on this issue.

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

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We've all done it before, let's do it again! Here's Sentor John Warner, the Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee's "contact me" web address. I suggest we all do just that and contact him on this issue.
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Since you left the link off:

http://warner.senate.gov/contact/contactme.htm

<i>Integrity first-service before self-Excellence in all we do</i>

Yeah, my bad. I was in a rush and I forgot the link. Thankx

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

[quote]
I read this article and shake my head, yet again. Shades of 1989/90 all over. I always felt that CAS was seemingly, in the eyes of the AF generals, a "third rate" mission to them; even though it should be #1, IMO. ------------

The Force always hated the Hog and stopped production of it in 82. Yet they kept the Eagles and Vipers in production.

So much for lessons learned in the Gulf War, Afgan and finally the Iraq War.

IMO, USMC should take over the Hogs and start up a new production line for them. Then they should dump their Harriers and JSF. Army would be a natural fit and they got around the Key West agreement with the Mohawks.

I read the DC papers daily. Virtually no support for the Hog in DC. They are pushing for NMD, Osprey and other POS high tech wet dreams.

Jack

the only upgrades I would want is more thrust, a SLEP,better IFF (everything needs that) and the Cobra pod mounted RADAR.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

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The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Oooh....Longbow Warthogs eh?

That would so kick arse.

I have to agree with Air2mudd too though, all that crap in the front of the cockpit needs to go...you can't see squat out the front of the windscreen.

"Trample the wounded...hurdle the dead"

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I have to agree with Air2mudd too though, all that crap in the front of the cockpit needs to go...you can't see squat out the front of the windscreen.

"Trample the wounded...hurdle the dead"
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Man you guys want some cheese with that whine! The Hog already has the biggest, windscreen, canopy, and HUD in the inventory. If we moved the compass and other odds and ends on the windscreen rail some other pilot would complan they couldn't see them!

*Best Doctor Evil voice*

How about NOOOOOOO, you crazy Dutch bas...... ROFL!

Ugly but well hung!
http://www.warthogpen.com

Edited by - Dice on May 28 2003 4:15 PM

LIKE I SAID BEFORE,

NEXT TIME THE "HOBBEE HITS A SOFT TARGET" AND WE OPEN UP A CAN OF "WHOOP-ASS"! WE'LL BE MISSING THAT SPECAIL SPICE.
AND THE WORST PART OF IT ALL WILL BE THE "BOOTS"WHO ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT.


PRESS TO TEST

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\"Live Free Or Die\"

Snipe have you seen that little wingtip mounted RADAR for the Z model Cobra? waaaaayyy cool. I guess they could just hang the old LANTIRN RF pods (that are probobly leaving mainline service anyway by now if not already) on the unused centerline station. Jimminy, if they COULD get the longbow radar on the Hawg somewhere and snap a clip of RF Hellfires on 4 and 8 stations Whoo Hooo all weather CAS!!!


"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

Edited by - boomer on May 28 2003 8:49 PM

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The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Yeah Booms, i've seen it. In fact in that thread where i dismantled Buzz a few months back i listed it by designation. LOL, wish i could remember it now....

I hear ya dice. I still think Air2 is right though.

"Trample the wounded...hurdle the dead"