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can't you guys come up with any better answers than that?

Like i say, how would a ship know that a blob travelling at 100-200knots 100miles away is an enemy plane?

slams only have a range of 30miles yeah? I can't remember exactly (havent played USNF much lately cause win98 doesn't support dos games)So if a plane was gonna fire a slam it would have to fly deep within that 100mile range anyway, as for harms...well... enough said.

you want a country that isn't prepared for a hog attack on a frigate... try your allies and friends, Autralia, my own country, we may not have a huge defence force but you guys have to admit that we are a usefull asset especailly in the west of iraq. (we captured the entire iraq airforce and guarded the west border of iraq.)
well australias frigates (anzac class(also used in iraq)) have No air defence other than a couple of crappy machineguns and a helicopter... soon they will be upgrading to use the sea sparrow.
I live in williamstown, melbourne, where they build the anzacs and i've seen how fragile those radar dishes actually are... a hand grenade would disable them, let alone a harm.


Are submarines really that effective? in ww2 germany caused havoc with the convoys intill two little things came along... sonar and radar... A submarine or a ship will show up clearly on either... but a plane?

also...
Lately there has been a trend to get rid of warships (batleships have been phazed out compleately the last was USS Misuori) and replace them with Aircraft cariers... Y?... Cause planes have proven more efective than ships...

so if these ships are inpenatrable that means that a f/a-18 couldn't attack them then...?

is that what your saying?

cause if it is you better go write to the airforce and tell them their wasting their time with the hornet and Air to ground anti-ship missles.

You guys still think it is imposible?
Well if you do then the enemy probably does aswell which means that they wouldn't be prepared for it. You only have to read some history books, for instance look at the raid on St. Nazaire, france in ww2, the british planed an attack on this harbour because it was the main place for german battleships to refuel and repair and the main target was the dry dock there. The germans were so confident that a "normal" attack would be easily thworted... and they were right... but the brittish converted a destroyer called the campeltown, the striped her of her guns to make her lighter and faster she was covered by a whole heap of gun boats full of comando's. She then ran full speed into the dry dock gates and the cew set off explosives hiden in her bows, while the camando's went and took out the pumphouse and defensive strutures.

But i supose that Air2mud has rightly pointed out that i don't fly the hog and have no right to say that it would be great at anti shipping role. Of course i don't fly the hog i'm fourteen and live in melbourne Australia! But i find it actually disgusting that the hogs own pilots say that the hog is no match for a hornet. Are you saying that you think the hog is slow? I know you guys get the shit baged through you by the other pilots because of that, but guys... do you have any idea how good it is to be able to sneak up on a convoy of tanks, undetected and then be able to blow the crap through them before they even realise the your there? That is the power of being able to fly slowly and that is the hogs greatest power. I may not have flown a hog, but when i capture that ability in flight sims champagne flows from the sky and the desert is covered in the blood of the enemy.

Now if we could harness this power and sneak up on a frigate gaurding a convoy, then destroy that frigate... the convoy would be open for the taking and then even a f117 could do that job

So, Air2mud, when you come to a attack a tank collum that is heavily guarded with sams... do you grimace, turn away and say it was to hard so i'm not ganna try it?
I you do then your weak and you don't deserve to fly a plane like the hog.

Look guys if you can make the airforce realise the hogs potential in other areas then they might upgrade your aircraft to make it even better than it already is... which would extend the life of the hog, yes?
a good thing
yes?
if you answers to those are no then maybe you shouldn't be on this website.

Don't even try and rebound by saying that somethings just get to old, because the canberra (you guys probably don't even know that noble name) could beet a B1 or a B2 in aerobatics no problem... when was it designed? 1949 and still exists in a number of airforces around the globe... to name a few... india, argintina, chile and ecuador.... a total of 11 countries!

Dam i get fired up!
i'm sorry if i offended anyone espeacailly Air2mud no hard feelings, it was just unlucky that you said that to me.
please i'd love to hear your rebutels and you can also give me a bell on nicklasdicklas@hotmail.com if you want.
see ya
Nick

sorry guys... replace "slam" with "harpoon"

geee, I guess the kids got us on that one guys LOLOL. Ivan, the Harpoon has a range exceeding 60miles so it could get well within the range of many ships today (but not all). you seem to think going slow will prevent you from being detected, ships are even slower than the A-10 and they are tracked on RADAR from great distances(not even counting airborn RADAR like E-2 Hawkeye) upon detection the ships captain would simply turn to bring all arms to bear if he had even the slightest idea that you might get through the misslery. HARMS have a range of around 80miles. Yes RADAR antennas are fragile they're just plastic (OK fibreglass), that's why a HARM could blind a small ships RADAR. Modern anti-aircraft guns have thier fuses set by RADAR MUCH faster than a person could ever even think about it, so the slow speed vs flack argument is only usefull in history not today.
I'm not sure why your concerned with a plane showing up on a submarines RADAR lol most subs have no anti-aircraft ability other than submerging and giving them nothing to shoot at(which works REAL well). You can of course attack a ship from ABOVE gun range with bombs, IF you are able to jamm thier RADAR and spoof thier missles to get that far in (A-6s dropped LASER guided bombs on Iranian ships back in the 80s) but it's NOT likely these days, modern RADARS are powrful enough to "burn through" any jamming well before the plane gets within bomb or gun range. As far as impenetrable ships go, an American aircraft carrier is as close to unsinkable as any ship is likely to get due to it's interior design and it's heavy armored hull. Short of a nuke the hull may be unpenetrable by any weapons even today.

Flying slow is NOT the A-10s greatest asset, it's gun and armor are. The armor ALLOWS the Hog to fly slow without greatly increasing the risk to pilot, so he can pick out targets better, but the hogs dont spend a lot of time flying at thier minimum speed, I suspect quite the opposit, they fly as fast as they can to keep thier kinetic energy up to enable them to maneuver better. Most Hog pilots wish for more power to let them turn and climb without loosing so much speed. A-10s dont sneak up on convoys because of thier slow speed, they can sneak up because that armor allows them to fly SO low they cant be seen till it's too late for the convoy. But there aint no place to hide on the open sea, Hogs would be detected MANY miles away and would be regretting the wild idea thier commander had of attacking ships. When attacking a tank column with SAM protection they generaly use Maverick missles to take out the SAMS and gun systems before they get into range of the SAMs (or let fast movers do it first since that is one of the fast jets main jobs). Again, because of that armor the hog driver has the option of trying to fly low enough to get within the minimun firing distance of the SAMs (but not the AAAguns) before the SAMs can fire on them.

In mock combat one of the A-10 drivers here has scored a couple of victories against an F-16, but it was due to his skill more than anything else. If a fighter wants to slow dance with the A-10 he just might loose, but that would be the fighter pilots mistake, cause he could have beaten the A-10 in other ways.

As far as the mighty Canberra is concerned, I'm rather familier with that old bird(in case you didnt know , many of them were built right here in the USA and flown as the B-57) we used them as attack aircraft back in the 60s-70s and then as high altitude recon planes, do a search for the RB-57F if you wanna LOL. But you cant compare the maneuverability of a 50,000-60,000 pound attack aircraft with almost half million pound heavy bombers.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

ok lets say the hog get pass the flak, well of you every go on a naval ship (I only been on a LSD) you notice a very potent gating gun and radar assembly sitting in the bow or above the bridge. And if you attack from the bow and the missile battery is on the stren it doesn't mean the missile can't turn directions.

"the closer we are to danger the father away we are from harm."

"Like i say, how would a ship know that a blob travelling at 100-200knots 100miles away is an enemy plane?"
Easy! A nifty peice of avionics called the IFF (identify friend or foe). If they dont have the right "sign, countersign" they would be regarded as suspicious and checked out by the aircraft patroling in the area. If no patrol acft were around you could bet the ship would be on a hightened alert to its intentions.



"face it....perhaps your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others!"

I remember from my Navy days the test firings we did of the Phalanx weapons system. The GM(G)'s that manned them said the weapon was able to shoot down supersonic missles as well as subsonic ones. We fired the ones on the JFK quite a bit as I recall. Sometimes we fired them at flares dropped from a Learjet flying by. I dont seem to recall them ever missing. Seems to me that as far as CBG's go there isnt a whole lot that is going to get through that screen to make it to the flat top. And even if it does the Sea Sparrows and CIWS is going to be mighty hard to get by. I think the only real deal would be total saturation of the area by enemy forces and then a nuclear torpedo.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

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YGBSM !

a question especially for the crew dogs who've seen just about everything, but anyone can chime in. Do you guys believe the "golden BB" concept applies to the A-10? I know it's SUPPOSED to apply to everything, but we've seen them come back SOOO shot to peices that I'm starting to wonder if a single point failure can bring down the Hog (no the BB to the head of the pilot doesnt count LOL). ny thoughts?

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

It applies to everything that flies. Every plane has at least one achiles heel. I can think of a few on the A-10 where a lucky shot (golden BB) would knock it out. Knocking out the wire bundle for switching to man rev and it would be outta there, pitch and yaw wouldnt be the issue....but roll has to be switched over by the pilot. Under Man Rev AND losing a geared servo tab on the wing would be just as bad. Couple of fuel lines come to mind as well.

"face it....perhaps your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others!"

well it was worth a try... i gotta have something to do in my spare time...

Thank you boomer for corecting me on some of my ranges (memory a little dodgy...) But i do have something here that says that the range of a harm is 40nm which is 70.4 miles... i think...

You mistook my words, I was simply pointing out that a submarine would show up more easily than an a-10..I realise that a submarine can do jack shit to a plane.

Ships show up easily because they are LARGE not because of their movement speed.

As far as flying the hog gos, i understand the idea of flying as fast as posible to maxamise your kinetic energy... but what i really ment to say... is that when you come into fireing range you slow down to give you more time to bring your weapons to bear. I mean i've tried aming a mavrick in flight sims and its not exactly easy cause you have to fly straght at the same time...then again thats what SAS is for. Also the longer you can stay in using the element of surprise.. the better. cause after your first attacking run the tanks prbably know your there... unless there really stupid.

Yes i also agree that the armor and gun are extremely useful assets but slow speed is something that the hog almost specailises in... well atleast in fixed wing aircraft. I have to also admit however that the a-10 is the only plane to carry the avenger so obviosly that screws me a bit. But if the gun and armour are so important why are they thinking of replacing the a-10 with the f-16 or the f-35, both of which, don't have either.

once again i'm sorry if i offended you... i did know canberra's had been made in the US. But everyone is so caught up in this f-15/b-2 crap that they don't realise how good the old planes are.



So, please enlighten me... how do you attack a ship?
with a hornet or whatever you guys use... we use hornets.

as for you other guys...
M&M: i don't doubt counties systems of working out whiether something is freimd or foe... but it doesn't answer my point that it would be hard to detect that a plane was actually there. I will explan now.

NOTE: everything i say here is based on general knowledge or common sense. Please, if you think i'm wrong, please corect.

The ocean is flat... yes?... because that is the property of water when gravity is forced upon it. Now, what hapens to that water when a wind developes ... waves, they now become you mountains and valleys, to a lesser extent of course. Also there is an effect on the water caused by the gravity of the moon called tides.. these also add to the flow of water and when coupled with a storm creates a swell. So what happens when radar waves hit water? Well if any of you have done any pysics when light travells through a substance the light bends, this causes strange things to appear on a radar screen especailly when the radar screen is as close to the water as a ships. Waves often look like "fuz" on the radar screen making it harder to read. This effect is magnified at a longer range, as the angles are more exadurated. Large objects as ships can be told because they are a constant 'blob' on the screen. In fact anything that appears in a pattern is probably unatrual (i did a cam course in AAFC) You will also notice that clouds also apear on the radar screen and depending on the range and strengh of the radar can appear to look exactly like a ship or a plane... This aply's to sonar too, and often, depth charges or more recently torpedoes have been fired at no more than a school of fish. So radar operators have to go through extensive tranning so that they can look at a radar image and work out whats natral and whats not... often a plane gives itself away because of its shape as it gets closer. In previous wars reconasance plans have got away with murder because the ships radar was so heavily misgueded by the sea and the clouds. So what have we learnt so far? Don't attack on a crystal clear day. One thing we havn't covered is visuals, how do you sneak up on a ship? Do it at night.. at night a ship most depends on its radar, sonar and other specail equipment. one suloution for a ship would be to use infra-red to scan the sky above for aircraft during a storm or at night. infra-red is much better than radar at seeing things that are slightly transperant... like clouds. The only problem is that when your looking at a infra red picture the detail of the picture depnds on ones eyesight. Which means that it would have limited range. So... there we have it, using natral elements, there are certain conditions that favour a plane in a plane vs. ship situation. it must be dark... stormy.... fog can be usefull... windy. And other tactical considerations must be made... Fly in a formation that looks natral (scatered, or maybe line astern), Fly either low (between the waves), or high (above the clouds or fog), send one plane ahead to get a definet position on the ship so that an attack can be as quick as posible, If you think your cover has been blown... come back later.... surprise must be used. Fly at a "natral" speed (as slow as possible, a fast moving object is going to show up very easily)) attack the ship from the front or rear as to avoid its main battery being aimed at you simultainesly. Make a passing sweep over the ship and drop weapons. Engage full power and get out of there, either heading back to the ocean or the clouds, droping counter measures to confuse weapons and radar from the ship. Make sure all the planes are as close together as possible so that the actual attack is as short as possible. Because when the first plane attacks, the ship is going to be looking for more of the same. If your ship isn't dead, its advised you don't go back for another run till later. The ship'l know what to look for.
So basically any plane could do it if the right conditions are there. Advantages for the hog: huge weapons carriage (its gun (armor penatration at 500m: 69mm!!!!!!), good survivability, heaps of counter measures. disadvantages: low power to weight ratio.... CAN BE FIXED!!!!!!! (stupid bloody airforce and their fucking apaches) anyway...
The ship is at a defenite disadvantage, especailly if that warship is one of yours lol. You guys love building long, thin and high warships....REALLY CRAP MANOUVRABILITY... fast though. The ship would not be ale to turn enough so it could face a maximaum battery at an attacker. I got a tour on a american cruiser a couple of years ago the USS california, she's scince been decomishioned. They showed us the phalanx's, 2 of them, they were located high on the midships.... i noticed that the field of fire was to the sides of the ship and not to the front as the bridge was obstructing it and not to the stern as the rear superstructure and funnel was preventing that. The other ground to air capability is the high velocity laumching tubes... designed for what type of missile i'm not sure. there were 2 leaning to either side... amidships.

As with anything the most defencive formation or sructure is with all the weapons pointing in different diretions outwards from the centre, to defend from any angle of attack... Unfortuanetly for ships when they are traveling in a fleet or convoy that is traveling is a single direction they must all be facing the same way. Which means that they all hve the same week point, although when you chose to attack a ship in a fleet you must remmber that the positions of the other ships are importants as those ships may be able to hit you with a phalanx or 2.

I would however be extremely hard to attack a well thought out defencive fleet at anchor. There would be at least 2 ships able to see you at once if not more.

As for what you said about an aircraft carrier being unsinkable because of its armour. Firstly nothing is unsinkable... Also... who said you have to sink it... as long as you criple it enough to stop it from working effectively... which would only require you to detroy the catapult, the bridge and its defensive AA guns... the rest can be done by something bigger... a B-52 for instance or several.
Anyway weapons are being formulated to contain chemicals and acid that simply melt a ships armour... i'm sure you could fit something like that on a A-10...

ok thats enough blabering for today...
glad to hear you rebutels
Nick

WELL I'M TOTALLY LOST!
WHAT WAS THIS THREAD ABOUT?

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_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

didn't the navy make a frigget just for carrying SAM missiles? designed to hit the bear bombers before they reach the carriers.

"the closer we are to danger the father away we are from harm."

did andrew K come back with a different name?? I'm begining to re-think living in OZ LOLOL

ok first off, I'm too tired to reply to this LOL, but I'm not offended in any way, just make sure you learn your lessons in life (some people never do).

go here and have a look at a now aging ship and it's systems and tell me if you REALLY think you have a chance at sneaking up on a modern warship.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/cg-47.htm

you seemed to think "slow speed" would keep the A-10 from being noticed on RADAR, that's why I mentioned ships as being slow.

I personnaly dont think the CWIS is a threat to an aircraft, just because the plane would probly have released it's weapons before CWIS cut down on it range wise. BUT CWIS just might shoot down the incoming weapon since THAT really is it's job.

The A-10 is being replaced by F-16 then F-35 because it is cheaper to have facilities and training and parts for a few types of aircraft rather than multitudes of different types and all thier different parts and people to work on them.

How to atack a ship? With missles, from as far away as you can, the Soviets have some with ranges in the area of 300 miles, not counting true cruise missles, some of which can be targeted at ships and have ranges on the order of 1000miles.

Modern warship RADARs have great heaps of software specifically to pick out targets from the "sea clutter" produced by wave action on the open sea. A big problem you overlooked is that a low slow flying hog would never find a ship at night, in a storm, with fog (LOL anybody wanna quick system check hop in weather like that LOL) because the A-10 has no RADAR. They would have to be directed to the target and wouldent be able to engage till they SAW it (having long since been wiped out by the RADAR directed guns all over the ship, ESPECIALLY the 5 inchers on the bow and stern) of course. As far as I know modern ship RADAR/missle systems have NO trouble at all with clouds LOL. And remember ANY system a plane would have for attacking under those conditions , a ship would have as well but the ships systems would be MANY times larger and more powerful. There is NO situation that I can think of where a plane has the advantage, except the long range missles like I said before.

btw easy on the F word here.



"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

hey... you see what i mean about the phalanx....
you couldn't get that onto a plane or missile that was travelling from bow to stern...

i agree that in weather like that its gunna be hard to find a ship...
now please don't take this personaly, but americans have been pretty hopeless at navigation... thats why is ww2 the british attacked at night and you guys had to wait intill you could see where your going... he he he... Anyway... radar really isn't important... thats where intelligence and reconaisance come in... A-10's don't have radar... so you send something to scout ahead and find the ship first... It could be a hawkeye or it could be one of your own frigates shadowing behind... or even better.. 2 frigates... lol. Then the planes come in... in some cases all you have to do is disable that ship... it makes all the difference...

i was looking at that site you showed me.. i have to admit those missile cruisers are heavily armed... i still think that your overestermating its invincebility.... sure long range, stand off missiles would be the best option... but then y don't you just sit in washington and fire a missile from there onto a ship thats 2000nm away?

cause thats the way its gonna go if you just continue to extend the ranges of your missiles intill thres no point in having planes or ships... its the same old story as the antitank weapons... it goes on forever... i got a book on it it started witht he rpg and the molotov and then the tanks got reactive armour... so they came up with heat... and then the tanks put another layer or reactive armour so they had to use a double heat warhead... it goes on for a fair bit...

So you have to come up with different ways of doing traditional things like attacking ships from air or pilots aint gonna have a job for very long.

and nether will captains...

oh well i guess it the way it gonna go...but attcking a ship with a hog or several hogs has never been tried so you don't know whether it is gonna work..

THINK OUTSIDE THE SQUARE YOU LIVE IN!!!!!
"freedom" lol

I just thought of something... you know how boomer said that there are computer programs looking for objects such as planes or ships. there is a weakness with computer programs... when it sees something it doesn't reconise or know how to deal with it... the computer crashes. Computers don't have the ability to work things out for them selves.. thats why there trying to use braincells built into circut boards instead of computer chips... animals can adapt to situations they haven't encounted but chips can't..
The best example of this is "hunt for red october" when the red october engaged its caterpillar the computer didn't reconise the sound and said that it was techtonic plates moving... and it was only discovered that that sound was the red october when a crew member played the sound at 10x. So would the russians or whatever think that america would launch a-10s at them... i don't think so... so you've tricked the computer now you have to trick the human eye. The reasons we wee things can be explained with 5 S's and M... the M stands for movement.. i know tat but i can't remember what the other ones are... siluette is one... size..shape....shadow...shade i think that them... were talking about radar here... so we can get rid off silluette, shade(color) and shadow... this leaves us with... movement.. size. and shape... thats what you've gotta watch... movement: well don't fly in a straight line i guess and once again slowly... size: A-10's are tiny in the sceme of things... Shape: fly in a strange looking formation and change it regularly... the A-10 also has a unusual shape... Also that if a radar operator is used to a computer working out everything for him/her he's gonna get complacent and he's/she's going to reily on the machine too much...

something may look imposible.. but theres always a way... just like algebra... theres always a number at the end... even if it does have a million didgets...

i'd like to see a ship hit a plane with a 5 inch gun... i mean maybe if the plane flew in a straight line.. but really were talking about hiting a needle with the head of a needle... the acuracy is imposible

missiles are the worst threat and they realy on radar and as morpheus would say... "electricity"....

no i'm not andrew k my name is nicholas treleaven i live in melbourne australia, i got to melbourne high school and i'm 14... when i grow up i want to be a pilot in the raaf, which plane i don't know... and i want to make enough money so i can buy a hog when they are decomishioned.

ok i think thats enough...
i've been typing for like 2 hours
Nick

Ivan/Nicholas: You are extremely bright, I hope you continue to "think outside the box you live in". But this is not PS-2 or X-Box, Hogs don't attack ships for a reason, and it's not because they aren't in the Navy or that we haven't thought of it first.

We fly as fast as we can because the jet flies better that way. We "sneak up" on targets by using altitude, not lower speeds.
And CIWS can handle just about anything that flies, once in range. I would not want to mess with one in any way.

Besides, this idea of Hogs attacking ships has grown to 2 x F-14s for air defense, a Hawkeye to find the ship, a couple of frigates to shadow the ship and then the Hogs to kill the ship. Sounds sort of like a carrier battle group...

Coach

Not to increase this controversy. But it seems to me that the hog does have its place for patroling marsh, and river basins similiar to what they had in Vietnam. Basically to deny small boat transportation. Even in Iraq there are significant swamps, one must wonder if Hog would make an ideal platform to deny smuggling operations, since it can loiter for hours and make its presences known as a deterant.

Yes, they can and do support "brown water ops", but his scenario was blue water ops, attacking ships at sea.

Coach

ok, replying to this is becomeing a waste of time but I will point out a few things <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>there are computer programs looking for objects such as planes or ships. there is a weakness with computer programs... when it sees something it doesn't reconise or know how to deal with it... the computer crashes. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>that's just silly but-

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>when the red october engaged its caterpillar the computer didn't reconise the sound and said that it was techtonic plates moving... <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> yeah but it didnt crash did it?



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> but then y don't you just sit in washington and fire a missile from there onto a ship thats 2000nm away?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> 2,000? why not 10,000? just the way I want it, I've been calling for conventional tipped ICBMs for 10 years , I dont want a fair fight, I want the enemy decimated instantly with NO loss of friendlies (wont happen , but that's what I want)

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

I agree mattlott, Marines or Army using A-10s to support riverine actions would be a great asset to have.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Nice coach... your the first pilot, exept air2mud, to answer my idea... its mostly been me and boomer.... thanks for the complement but I think that you have valid point in saying that if the airforce thought it was possible they would have already done it... You fly the plane so how can i argue... but thanks for elaborating rather than just putting my idea down....

I agree with boomer, can't be stuffed argueing anymore... but thanks for the debate anyway.

hey boomer,
how does a JSOW work?... i've seen pics of them being used by f-16's but are they rocket propelled or what... it just looks like a bomb to me...

thanks
Nick

ps. Ivanthegreat is a nickname.. i got it off a friend...
I HATE the x-box and ps-2... i just like the comp... but i know where your coming from...

the AGM-145 JSOW(joint Stand Off Weapon) is just a glider. Sort of a 1000pound gliding cluster bomb. When released at preferably a high altitude the wings fold out and the GPS guidance system steers it to it's co-ordinates as much as 40 miles away. It flies over it's target and releases 145 submunitions,and makes a mess out of everything in the area LOL. They are developing different payloads for it, a set of Sensor Fuzed Weapons to seek out tanks and such when they are released by JSOW, and the Marines want an IR guided version with a 500lb MK-82 for the warhead to attack stronger targets than SAMs, and vehicles. It has been having problems with not being able to correct for wind drift after a long flight. And it is somewhat stealthy. They also tested a powered version with a small jet engine in the tail, had a range of at LEAST 150 miles.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-154.htm

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Nice coach... your the first pilot, exept air2mud, to answer my idea... its mostly been me and boomer.... thanks for the complement but I think that you have valid point in saying that if the airforce thought it was possible they would have already done it... You fly the plane so how can i argue... but thanks for elaborating rather than just putting my idea down....
I like the idea of a carrier borne battle group... But as if the airforce if gunna replace hornets with a-10's.

Boomer, that thing about computers isn't silly, its true. Thats why computer programs take up so much room... cause it has to tell the computer what to do in ANY situation.... and "bugs" are when the program doesn't cover a certain situation.
Hunt for red october is fictional anyway... so you can't really use it in an arguement.. but its the only example i could think of.

I agree with boomer, can't be stuffed argueing anymore... but thanks for the debate anyway.

hey boomer,
how does a JSOW work?... i've seen pics of them being used by f-16's but are they rocket propelled or what... it just looks like a bomb to me...

thanks
Nick

ps. Ivanthegreat is a nickname.. i got it off a friend...
I HATE the x-box and ps-2... i just like the comp... but i know where your coming from...

by the way, the FAS site doesnt get EVERYTHING right, but they do a good job of bringing it all together in one place.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Ah the joys of reading pure tripe from the Playstation 2 generation!

You guys who responded (Boomer etc) - dont know how you have the patience!

I think Ivanthegreat has totally lost the plot and with arguments like "there is a weakness with computer programs... when it sees something it doesn't reconise or know how to deal with it... the computer crashes." - I mean please, come to the real world! Lol

Cheers
Hogman

Well maybe if we put a superrocket on the hog and make it invisible with our wonder woman technology and get Captain America to fly it so we can destroy the only Navy we have to worry about....ours. And my dad can beat yours up! LOL....maybe this thread has gotten a little off track and far fetched.

Smitty