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I'm writing a report for my comp 1 class, can anyone help me find information on uranium depleted shells? Maybe some first hand experience on their effectiveness? From the friendly end of course.

I think lots of people on here could find you more information than you ever wanted to know. How about listing a few specific questions, and see what you get.

Try here for a start and if you have more questions come back and ask...

http://hogpen1.tripod.com/weapons/ammo.htm



Ugly but well hung!

A couple of inaccuracies in that article:

--There is no white phosporus in the HEI round.

--The ballistics of the TP round simulate the HEI round, not those of the API round.

--A full load of 30mm would be 1174 rounds, not 1050.

--The ratio of API to HEI in combat mix is 5:1, not 4:1.

Still a good article.

Coach: Some of your "inaccuracies" are inaccurate...not to scrutinize, but..

A full load *IS* 1050 rounds..1174 was the capacity of the old style ammo drums.

The last I knew, and actual "Party Mix" is indeed 4:1, and not 5:1 as you stated.

--Raven

"Work Hard, Party Hard, Hardly Sleep"

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Coach: Some of your "inaccuracies" are inaccurate...not to scrutinize, but..

A full load *IS* 1050 rounds..1174 was the capacity of the old style ammo drums.

The last I knew, and actual "Party Mix" is indeed 4:1, and not 5:1 as you stated.
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Sorry Raven, Coach is spot on the money. If anyone should know, he should. The reason you mainly see 1050 rounds loaded is because of how the rounds are packaged. I forget what number the ordie guys said, but 1050 equates to a certain amount of 30mm ammo canisters before they go into the Dragon and get uploaded. 1174 is an 'oddball' amount of ammo canisters, and so you often don't see that many loaded since there would be leftover rounds in the shipping canisters. Easier to keep track of full canisters than partially used ones. 1174 IS the magic number, and in the event of a target rich environment, that many rounds could be loaded. I forget what the 'old' number was, but it was higher than 1174, and was way before my time. Depending on the situation, you might not even want 1174 rounds loaded, and you might not even include API in the loadout. Which brings us to the next topic...

The current combat mix is 5:1. No question about it. Like I said, certain situations might dictate that purely HEI rounds be loaded. When the combat mix is fed in, it is in a 5:1 ratio.

Trust us.



Comm Jam

Edited by - C Andreychik on Oct 28 2002 6:16 PM

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A couple of inaccuracies in that article:

--There is no white phosporus in the HEI round.

--The ballistics of the TP round simulate the HEI round, not those of the API round.

--A full load of 30mm would be 1174 rounds, not 1050.

--The ratio of API to HEI in combat mix is 5:1, not 4:1.

Still a good article.


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Thanks for the corrections Coach! BTW I just checked the TO and the 1050 (+ or - 3 rounds) is what the drum can hold and you are right the complete system is 1174 + or - 5 rounds.

Can you tell me what is in an HEI rounds... it will save me the trouble of going to another building to check the TO hehe. I love it when people correct me because it makes me get back into the books and I learn something every time I do! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly but well hung!

WAS THE QUESTION THE MAX AMOUNT AND CAP. OF THE GUN? OR OPERATIONAL LOAD?
I'M GOING TO EMAIL A "MASTER MUZZLE ****ER" AND ASK HIM.I'VE SEEN LOADED 4:1AND 5:1RATIO

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Coach, disregard my above question on what's inside an HEI round, I checked the TO and it states an incendiary mixture or pelet of H-###... whatever that is. I'll make the changes to my site first chance I get and again thanks for pointing ot my mistakes.<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly but well hung!

Edited by - Dice on Oct 29 2002 10:51 AM

Ok...I see the error of my ways...I was thinking of JUST the druma nd not the whole system...that is my mistake. I still stick to my guns regarding that 4:1 is still used, but may not be all the time. I think the difference may come based upon contingency, but I am sure that a 4:1 mix is used.

I guess i need to read a bit more closely, sorry Coach!

--Raven

"Work Hard, Party Hard, Hardly Sleep"

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Ok...I see the error of my ways...I was thinking of JUST the druma nd not the whole system...that is my mistake. I still stick to my guns regarding that 4:1 is still used, but may not be all the time. I think the difference may come based upon contingency, but I am sure that a 4:1 mix is used.

I guess i need to read a bit more closely, sorry Coach!

--Raven

"Work Hard, Party Hard, Hardly Sleep"
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Raven, We are never to young, or in my case to old, to learn but one thing is for sure, from this day on we will know the answers to the above questions!

Ugly but well hung!

Thanks a lot for the info guys! I knew this was the place to come.

I guess I should come up with a few more direct questions to ask.
hmmm...
Ok, well, who here has had any experience, specifically combat experience, with DU rounds? Can you give me some background information as to how effective they are in actuality?

I've also heard (to say the least) of a big controversy around DU shells. What are your opinions on this controversy?

That's all I can think of for now. This isn't the "big" paper for the course, so I don't need a bunch of information on it, but I'll greatly appreciate any help I can get. Thanks guys!

I KNOW YOU NEVER EVER STAND ,PARK OR BY THE GAU-8 WHEN WEAPONS GUYS ARE WORKING ON IT!!
MACK YOU BFLT GUYS PROBABLY STILL REMEMBER WHEN THEY "TEST FIRED" THE GAU INTO THE P.O.L. PARKING LOT?
LUCKY FOR EVERYONE THOSE SPOTS WERE EMPTY. BUT THEN AGAIN SPUD TOLD ME ABOUT THE A-7 SHOOTING THE 20MM ROUNDS INTO THE CONTROL TOWER.

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

I SENT THE "MASTER GUN PLUMBER" THE QUESTIONS FOLKS,
DICE I FORGOT "Y" WAS AT THE PI SAME TIME YOU WERE AND DON. SENT HIM THE F-4 SITE.

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Dice:
Riger that, Raven copies all...

--Raven

"Work Hard, Party Hard, Hardly Sleep"

RAVEN,YOUR SPELLING IS GETTING LIKE MINE. BEEN TALKING TO ME TOO MUCH.
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

DU is safe for those that shoot it, work around it, load it, or touch it. You could live for years in a container made of DU and never receive as much radiation as you get from a routine chest x-ray.

Who is it not safe for? The poor, dumb bastard that gets it shot into his tank because he has filled the US with justifiable anger. The fact is, it is safe for everyone unless you get hit with it, or you are unlucky/lucky enough to be close enough to the impact to not die from it, but to breathe the dust created by it.

Unfortunately, there are lots of political ramifications for using any weapon that has uranium anywhere in the name of it. Many nations are not excited about us even shipping or flying with the stuff there. Every crash report you see on the news has a statement declaring whether or not the A-10 was carrying DU.

They had planned to recently begin testing DU in Nevada at either the Weapons School or in the Test and Evaluation Squadron, but I don't know if that testing has started.

I have never had the duty of firing DU in combat, so I have no first-hand knowledge of its effectiveness. But, I have seen video and photos of armor stopped dead from the world's most effective armor-penetrating aircraft-mounted gun.

Maybe some others here have some more first-hand knowledge of its effectiveness.

DU238 works better than any other readily available material for AP duties, so until something better comes along it is the best thing going- period.



"US Snipers-Providing surgical strikes since 1776"

Goose:
No kidding! I have made some not-too-pretty typos lately...ohh well, just in a slump I guess...

--Raven

"Work Hard, Party Hard, Hardly Sleep"

Let me see if I can clear up some confusion...

The ratio of combat is is 5 API shells to one HEI shell. There is no mixing, or building loads for each contingency, If there was, we would have stopped using DU 10 years ago. I'm a fan of urban mix, 50/50 TP and HEI. But there is no such mix.

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Let me see if I can clear up some confusion...

The ratio of combat is is 5 API shells to one HEI shell. There is no mixing, or building loads for each contingency, If there was, we would have stopped using DU 10 years ago. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Coach please tell me what you mean with your above statement...I'm confused...would have stopped using DU 10 years ago if the ratio was changed?

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I'm a fan of urban mix, 50/50 TP and HEI. But there is no such mix.
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Man I'm either slow tonight or have had too many beers but, why would you mix TP with HEI in an urdan setting?
<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly but well hung!



Edited by - Dice on Oct 31 2002 6:50 PM

Well, the paper is printing out right now. Thank you all for your replys, they've all helped a great deal. I'd be more than happy to treat anyone that asks to a .jpg copy of the final copy and works cited page.

Thanks again everyone, have a happy haloween.

Sorry about the last post, I got called away. The combat mix comes from the manufacturer that way, it is not mixed at the base. In order to change it, it would require the munitions troops breaking open every can and hand jamming the new mix.

30mm ammo is packaged in cans of 575 rounds from the manufacturer. A normal load is 1150 (2 cans), not 1050. The gun can hold a maximum of 1174 rounds, including the rounds in the feed system. Raven was partially right, the original ammo drum in the A-10 could hold 1350 rounds, but was redesigned in the late 70's to hold only 1150.

My statement about not using DU is my own opinion, it carries significant environmental and political baggage. But we have nothing else right now that can do what DU does. The major danger of DU is the dust that is generated when it hits a target. The dust can be inhaled and can cause health problems. DU itself is not dangerous, in the form of a penetrator.

Testing and firing of DU at Nellis was suspended for about five years, but has been resumed. They started firing it at Nellis last year. I have fired several thousand rounds of combat mix over the years, but never in combat. It is impressive when it hits a tank.

Urban mix is also my own proposal, it has good capability against any target short of a main battle tank without the issues that come with DU employment.

http://www.atk.com/defense/descriptions/products/medium-cal-ammo/gau-8.htm
COACH TP OR PGU-15 ROUNDS WERE USED MIXED WITH OTHER SHELLS API AND HEI IN THE GULFWAR. THE TP WAS GREAT FOR TRUCKS AND LIGHT ARMOUR.
I'M STILL WAITING FOR "Y" TO ANSWER BUT I'LL SEE IF "VINNIE" IS AROUND ON THE "LOAD TOAD.COM "SITE. THIS IS WEAPONS TROOP SITES

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Only combat mix was used by the A-10s in Desert Storm. The OA-10 FACs used HEI.