WT Forums

I hope Dr. Kevorkian is not a member of this esteemed panel.

EXPERT PANEL ON AGING AIRCRAFT TO START C-5A APPRAISAL IN JUNE: A team of experts now being formed to appraise the remaining life of the U.S. Air Force's oldest planes likely will pass judgment on the Lockheed Martin C-5A Galaxy heavy airlifter by October, Air Force officials said. An eight-member Air Force Fleet Viability Board (AFFVB), championed by Secretary James Roche, should be launched by late May or early June, according to Richard Mutzman, chief engineer for the Aging Aircraft System Program Office at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. The board's assignment is to assess at least four aircraft programs each fiscal year, starting with the C-5A and the A-10 Thunderbolt II, said Mutzman, whose office is organizing the board. (Aerospace Daily)



Mc/I + P/A

_________________
????

a10stress, you have no idea (or maybe you do) the crap floating around HQ right now....be afraid...be very afraid! <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

BTW- you got to stop using them $20 words...this country boy had no idea what this thread was about until I opened it...what the heck is a euthanasia?

Ugly but well hung!
http://www.warthogpen.com

Edited by - Dice on May 02 2003 12:58 PM

OOOOOOOO euthanasia.. never seen the damn word in print..had to look it up in the dictionary! <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly but well hung!
http://www.warthogpen.com

!!!!!!!!!!Dice YOU have a dictionary?!!!!!!!!! sorry buddy I couldent resist, sorry sorry sorry <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> . But if they ax the C-5 they're gonna have to pony up a lot of dough for a bunch of C-17s and C-130s to take thier place.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

LOL I first heard of it regarding the (alleged) Eskimo tradition of sending the elderly off down the river on a sheet of ice .

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

WELL THATS ABOUT RIGHT FOR POINTY NOSE THINKERS

DESERT STORM,KICKED ASS SHUT DOWN BOTH ENGLAND AND BEACH,PLUS TAKE THE HOG'S OUT OF THE UK

COME BOSNIA AND THE OTHER CLINTON WARS,WORK THEM HARD
BUT GIVE THEM LITTLE FUNDING

AFAGANLAND,CRYING WHERE ARE THE HOG'S? FINALLY GET THEM THERE
THEY KICKED ASS

IRAQ, GETTING THEM THERE START KICKING ASS,FOR GET JUST THE "OA-10" ROLE GOES BACK TO CAS AND ANTI-ARMOUR MISSIONS,KICKING ASS,DOING THE DIRTY WORK AS THE LAWNDART WATCHES,KICKS ASS

NOW THEY'LL DO AWAY WITH THEM

BUT IN THE FUTURE,MAYBE KOREA,THEY'LL BE SCREAMING"WHERE'S THE HOG?"
AND SOMEONE WILL HAVE TO SAY"OH,WELL GOT RID OF THEM FOR A JACK OF ALL TRADE,COMPUTER CHIP, THAT WE ONLY HAVE 12 OF,BUT WE CANT GET DIRTY

DONT GET ME STARTED!!!!!!!

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Looks like your already started goose. Did it ever dawn on you that there may be more involved here than "its us against them"? Or "its the pointy ended ones against the ugly ones"?

"Life is tough....its even tougher when your stupid"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Looks like your already started goose. Did it ever dawn on you that there may be more involved here than "its us against them"? Or "its the pointy ended ones against the ugly ones"?

"Life is tough....its even tougher when your stupid"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

It's been us against them for over 30 years, and yes it is pointy nose against ugly and who gets the money.

The A-10 flew over 35% of ALL AF missions in Iraqi Freedom and they still want to kill the program... yea there's more to it and it's called politics!

Over 1400 Vipers in service and a couple hundred Hogs but who do they put on the chopping block... maybe the money we "save" by boneyarding the A-10 can be spent on body bags for the ground troop in the next war...this is frigging BS!! <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly but well hung!
http://www.warthogpen.com

Edited by - Dice on May 03 2003 7:56 PM

Last I heard the A-10 was going the same way as the F-16....kicked along the side of the road to make way for the JSF! Its unfortunate but it looks like the A-10 will be gone before the F-16. You know what? Getting all pissed off in here at people you dont even know is bad for your health dude. Its "cyber-reality". Damn.....its a good thing its not all the same airforce huh? Ive got time on the A-10, the F-16 and a few other jets thrown in just for measure. I still continue to earn a living on the A-10, trust me it will affect me more than a little bit if it goes away any time soon. Dice if you still work in the position that I think you do, you know there is more involved than just dollars here.

"Life is tough....its even tougher when your stupid"

Mudtoair, of course I know what you are referring to but, it still come down to $$ and who gets it. The A-10 has problems (so do other
airframes) and which one gets fixed and stays in service will depend on where the money goes. I only pick on the F-16 because it has
the most airframes and could take a hit in numbers and still stay in service along side the A-10.

It does make me mad when the talk is about down-sizes one airframe or killing another..we can have both aircraft if it’s done right. Yes both airframe will have to move over for the JFS but which one will mover over first and why? Are we looking at battlefield records or where the airframes are built and maintained..in other words where the money is going?

Maybe I am just spitting into the wind because I’ve been told more than once how the, F-16, B-52 (B-52s providing CAS *shakes head*) and the F-15E can provide CAS/SAR just fine. I don’t fly them and have never been to war collage so maybe I just don’t see the “big picture”. The only thing I know is for the last decade the A-10 has been one of the first called and has performed outstandingly in each conflict, were we using them because they were there or, because they
brought something to the battle no other airframe could?

How about some words from the drivers out there, should I just shut-up because my views of CAS/CSAR are outdated or do we still need the A-10?

BTW just because we are in the same AF does mean we can't have a differance of opinion and express them here.

Ugly but well hung!
http://www.warthogpen.com

I'VE SEEN THE POLITIC'S UP CLOSE AND HAD IT EFFECT MYSELF.
AT FIRST WHEN THEY TRIED GIVING THE HOG TO THE ARMY,WASNT TO THRILLED ABOUT THE IDEA OF BEING A GROUNDPOUNDER(SNIPE YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN)GLAD THAT DIDNT HAPPEN AND 2 BEING IN ONE OF THE BEST A-10 UNITS EVER,KICKING SOME SEROUIS ASS IN DESERT STORM AND BEFORE WE EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING HOME THEIR ALREADY SENDING SOME OF US PACKING BACK TO OUR OLD AFSC'S.
THE 2 MAJOR A-10 PLAYERS GET CLOSED DOWN.
WHY BECAUSE ,THE LAWNDART CAN DO IT ALL OR SO SAYS A COUPLE OF SENATORS AND POINTY NOSE'S

THE HOG HAS HAD AS MANY PHASE OUT DATES I THINK AS THE BUFF,BUT THEIR STILL HERE

PLUS YOU KNOW THEY CAN SAY"THE WIDGET IS WEARING OUT AND ITS CHEAPER TO BUY NEW 80 MILLION DOLLAR PLANES "BLAH.BLAH,BLAH

BUT EVEN WITH THAT EXCUSE'S DID THAT KEEP THE HOG HOME? NOOOOOO!

PLUS NOW WITH THE HOG HAVING SOME "LASER GUIDED" CAPABILITES ON TOP OF THE OTHER ALREADY PROVEN ABILLITIES IT WOULD PROBABLY BE CHEAPER TO BULID NEW ONES JUST FOR THE CAS AND SAR ROLES.NT T MENTION ALREADY TRAINED AND AVAILABLE PERSONEL.
SO YEAH I GET PISSED OFF









PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

I can see why the USN would want to put the JSF ahead of everything, cause it's the only airframe worth a damn on the horizon for them, but not the USAF. It makes no sense.

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

Goose....in the whole scheme of things you getting pissed off wont change a GD thing.....lighten up. I was there when the army wanted to take over the weapon system, I even had my plane up for show and tell and had grunts in the cockpit asking questions. I lived it, I continue to live it.

"Life is tough....its even tougher when your stupid"

The A-10 would've lived forever as an Army bird. They would have been very reluctant to ever retire them because they would have had no chance of getting anything new once they did, and would have been back out of the fixed wing business.

Getting taken over by the Army would be the best thing that ever happened to the A-10. You would have gone from red-headed stepson's to the favored son overnight. For an Army platform, the A-10 is as racy as they come.

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

two words:

donald
rumsfeld (?)


"The First Rule in a Gunfight: Have a gun. If you violate this rule, no other rules apply" Jeff Cooper

Maybe my Marine Corps will buy a few! It's a long shot. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Hogdawg "Maybe my Marine Corps will buy a few! It's a long shot."
Its not about the A-10 needing a good home. Its an issue more of the airframe needing more than the AF is willing to do to keep it viable. Most problems arent unsurmountable but it would require a serious effort.



"Life is tough....its even tougher when your stupid"

Your frustration is understood..........Losing sailors due to lack of maritime air superiority is no different than losing troops on the ground....

If your not having fun, your not doing it right!

If the airframe needs more work than the AF is willing to put into it, i would submit it doesn't exactly fit as having a good home.

Give those birds to the Army, they would lavish billions on revitalizing and upgrades for the whole fleet.

The Army would be tickled pink to get the CAS mission back. Then it would be Apache in the hot seat, and would likely be the death knell of Commanche.

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

As an airlift guy I've gotta say this....

C-17's and 130's don't have the legs or the interior size to handle some of the things we move. If you ever seen a boat from the Special Boat Squadron loaded in a C-5 you'd understand what I'm talking about.

The C-5 is the only airlifter we have the has a sustained interior size of 132 inches in height. The C-17 has this dimension but not throughout the entire length of the aircraft.

A bunch of C-17's and C-130J's isn't gonna fix this. We're gonna end up building more C-5's or something like it.

Or

I can see us re-engining(is that a word?) the C-5's and hopefully repiping the hydraulics. 70 percent mission reliability is a problem no matter what year the plane was built.

Nothing I hated more than loading 36 pallets only to offload them and reload them on a spare 2 hours later.

BTW, I was down in Charleston a few months back. Did ya'll know we contracted the big Antonov to haul stuff for us ? I found it "interesting" that we had to resort to that. It's worse than the C-5.

Still love the Warthog....it'll always be my favorite fighter and the guys that work on them and fly them will be my fav fighter guys.
I hope they don't kill the A-10 off. EVER !



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
!!!!!!!!!!Dice YOU have a dictionary?!!!!!!!!! sorry buddy I couldent resist, sorry sorry sorry <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> . But if they ax the C-5 they're gonna have to pony up a lot of dough for a bunch of C-17s and C-130s to take thier place.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

MUDD2AIR,

YOU HAVE YOUR THOUGHTS I HAVE MINE,IF I GET PISSED OFF,THEN I GET PISSED OFF.
I KNOW A OLD CREWDAWG SAYS DONT HOLD SQUAT WHEN IT COMES TO AIRFORCE POLICIES,HELL IT DONT HOLD SQUAT GETTING VETS NEED MEDICAL CARE.

THE HOG WAS MY FAVORITE AIRFRAME,I DONT AGREE WITH THE "PIN-BALL TECH,PLASTIC,JACK-OF-ALL TRADE 100 MILLION JETS.
IF THEIR GOING TO DO THAT MIGHT AS WELL BUY UMV'S AND WE'LL MAKE SURE WE DONT LOSE PILOTS TO ENEMY FIRE.

BUT I FEEL BETTER THAT I'M NOT ALONE ON MY LOVE AND THOUGHTS ON THE HOG.
SO I'LL GET OFF MY SOAPBOX.
SNIPE,YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT,ITS BETTER TO BE A "HOG OF ONE" THEN A BEERCAN ON A STICK

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Snipe that's actually an interesting idea. Would there be a mission for attack helos if the A-10 moved to the army stable? Perhaps the helos would only be an organic air offensive/defensive platform that could litteraly move and bunk with the troops, especially in terrain other than desert.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

The Army uses it's Apache Bde's now as deep tactical strike assets. The raid into Kabbala is a perfect example. The Apache's are not generally used for CAS at all, though there are exceptions.
The Kiowa Warriors are mainly used to screen cavalry formations.

That means for real CAS, the US Army relies on the USAF. The US Army would definitely prefer not to have to do that.

Further, the plane they rely on more than any other is the A-10. It is safe to say that the A-10 would get modernized to the gills and refurbished if they were transferred to the Army.

All the various assets could(and should) still be used in the exact same role as current doctrine states.

Only difference is the A-10 comes out totally modernized in the process, at the almost certain cost of Commanche.

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

I had heard the rumor years ago that the Army and Air Force were trying to transfer the A-10... but I had treated it as just a rumor and didn't really give it much credit, nor did I ever look into it. But according to what has been said here it was really contemplated?.... Who F***ed up the deal??? I'm with Sniper on this the A-10 would have been around forever in the Army.

1. Don't look conspicuous; it draws fire.
2. Never draw fire; it irritates everyone around you.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

Desert Storm %#*$#* it up.

I believe Dice or someone said it was all but a done deal. Might have been Alfa Kilo.

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.