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I would love ot know what you guys think about the.......

Mirage 2000-5
MiG-29A/S
Su-27S/SK
Su-30MKK/MKI
MiG-29K

Hi Troung, how is m favorite Vietnamese buddy?

Troung is one of the Muslim antagonists Horrido and i befriended at the waki pak

Welcome aboard bro.

Trample the wounded- hurdle the dead.

WELCOME TROUNG

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

A friend of snipes is a friend of mine. Especially one that gives those waki pakis a hard time. Welcome to WT. As for non US aircraft, well I think we are best served buying with the US label. LOL

Fender
In war there is no prize for runner-up. -- Omar N. Bradley

Mudd can tell you about the MiG-29s, he swears they're collaborating with "The Grays" in testing and developing an anti-gravity propulsion system for them out at Area-51/Groom Lake/Dreamland...

A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down...

I'll start the ball.

Mirage 2000-5; French counter to the F-16C/D.

Speed Mach 2.2

Raduis; 600-700 miles with 6 MICA and 3 fuel tanks

Weapons; It can carry the MICA (French AIM-120), Super 530D (French AIM-7M), Magic II (French AIM-9M) for air combat and the As-30L (French Maverick), APACHE (French SLAM), exocet, ARMAT (French HARM) for ground strike. Compared to the F-16 it is better for high level dog fights and compares well at low levels. Indian Mirage 2000s have been fitted for Russian R-73RDM-2s (AA-11) and the R-27ER/ET (AA-10C/D) and have the Python 4 and Derby coming. UAE Mirage 2000s carry the ASRAAM.

Cost; 25-30 million for the Mirage 2000E, 35-45 million for the Mirage 2000-5.

Remarks; Compared to the F-16 it is better for high level dog fights and compares well at low levels. It is a better system than the MiG-29 for comabt and keeping it air worthly. It has been used in cobat for strike (1999 Kargil, Bosnia), air defense (Cenepa, Gulf War, Kagril), EW (Kargil), Escort (Kargil, Gulf War, Bosnia).


MiG-29A/S; air defense fighters

Speed; Mach 2.2

Raduis; 350-420 miles on air combat with 1 tanks, 2 R-27 and 4 R-73/60.

Weapons; Can carry the R-27R/T (Russian AIM-7F) and the R-73 (AA-11) or R-60MK (AA-8). Upgraded models can carry the R-77 (AA-22), so far only 4 nations have done this (Peru, Malaysia, India, Russia). Dumb bombs and rockets can also be carried.

Cost; 8-20 million dollars

Remarks; Basically a short range air defense fighter. Early versions rely heavily on GCI which has caused their easy loses in air combat (Ethopia vs. Ertrea, Gulf War, Kosovo). The plane might have made few klls in Yemen (on MiG-21s) and Moldava (on MiG-29Cs).

Thank you for the welcomes.

Waki Paki is really getting on my nerves. No one really talks about planes they talk about Islam and how China will rescue them form anyone.

Top 2 topics
1. FC-1
2. J-10
3. Pilot Training

Of course the Indians are just as bad.

1. Su-30MKI
2. LCA
3. crashes

Welcome Troung.........

Whats your opinion of the F-14 Tomcat?
My friendship depends on your answer, lol;)

Good to have you with us.

If you are not having fun, you are not doing it right!

Never had much respect for the Mirage........Delta wing has to small of a optimum performance envelope for ACM. Before you guys unload on me, the F-14 is VG........only configured delta in the right situation.

Mig-29, I hear its a hot rod, but suffers poor situation awareness.

SU-27/SU-30.......I have alot of respect for those aircraft, closest Russian aerospace firms have come thus far to designing a comparable fighter to the US. They still suffer from poor cockpit egronomics thus situational awareness suffers.

In my humble opinion, the best foreign designs have come from SAAB.
They have the complete package, and are very innovative. I am suprised they have not done better on the export market.

If you are not having fun, you are not doing it right!

I'd haveta say the Gripen is the best all around fighter availible ANYWHERE today, but the F-16C/60 is a half a heart beat behind it.

Rafale and EF are both very good, but both cost buoque bucks.

I never had much respect for Mirages or anything French, lol.

Mr.Mudd has chatted with me about the Mig-29 a couple times, he seems pretty impresed with their performance.

Trample the wounded- hurdle the dead.

none of the deltas do anything but wallow at low alts, I agree with most of the rest of the comments, love the Gripen for euro planes.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

"Whats your opinion of the F-14 Tomcat?"

A great fighter. The F-14 is possibly the greatest air defense fighter in the world. To bad they did not fit the AIM-120C to it. The F-14 has great range and payload which has not yet even been tapped into yet.

If you read about in action during the Iran Iraq war you will see how great it is. They shot down MiG-25PD/RBs, Mirage F-1EQ-2/4/5/6/7, MiG-23ML/BN, MiG-21MF, H-6D and Tu-22Bs using it.

The F/A-18E/F will make a shitty replacement.

"My friendship depends on your answer, lol;)"

Good enought for you?

"Mig-29, I hear its a hot rod, but suffers poor situation awareness."

The R-27R/T to be true sucks. The plane is really limited and if the USA had built it, they would never have brought it into service as is. The MNiG-29SMT/K/M/MRCA have promise.

"SU-27/SU-30.......I have alot of respect for those aircraft, closest Russian aerospace firms have come thus far to designing a comparable fighter to the US. They still suffer from poor cockpit egronomics thus situational awareness suffers."

I honselty feel them over rated. Vietnam (my country) uses the Su-27SK and are buying the Su-30K but the Su-27SK is over rated. It does not have a great range when it carries all 10 missiles, there are no fuel tanks, the plane is not agile unless there is 30% fuel left. I feel the F-15A/C with AIM-120C would club them down like baby seals.

BTW guys, Troung LOVES to read about this stuff, he's usually pretty accurate with the ranges and stuff- at least with what's published.

Carry on Charlie

Trample the wounded- hurdle the dead.

Charlie's his last name, right? First name Victor? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down...

Yup, lol


Trample the wounded- hurdle the dead.

eheheheh

= )

Troung........You and I are going to get along great.

I have read some impressive figures from the Iran/Iraq war.......The U.S. likes to discredit those numbers because of the conflicts with that regime, but the Iranians did very well, even better when considering that their skilled F-14 pilot cadre was mostly purged when the Shah was deposed and the Khomenei fudementalists took control of the military.

If you are not having fun, you are not doing it right!

Very few of the pilots were purged. I think the F-14 got as many as 70-100 kills.

I read some pretty amazing numbers on that too.

The total included 23 kills believed to have been scored with the AIM-54A.

Iran also used their F-14's in the AEW/AWACs role.

Trample the wounded- hurdle the dead.

they got a bunch of Kills............and if it was able made official the F-14 would almost have as impressive Kill to loss tally as the F-15 in Israeli and USAF service.

Iran suffered from three vices in the Iran-Iraq war.

Lack of spares and support, missiles, parts, etc..........though the Isrealies helped, and evenutally so did we.

Lack of quality RIO's.......The Iranians flew the Phantom and the F-14, but never really developed the Pilot/Rio team concept. Some RIO's were very good, but some sucked. In the F-14, the RIO makes the fighter lethal, pilot is just a nose gunner. USAF had a major infuence on Iran's airpower doctrine.

Alot of quality people were purged durring the revolution Troung, I need to disagree with you here, because a tremendous amount of the Imperial Iranian Air Force officers were loyal to the Shah, must of them were killed or fled, those who did stay were junior officers with little or no political ties.

The F-14 in Iran is a interesting and a not so talked about subject, if you like we can start another thread for it Troung, and discuss it further, I would like to comapre notes and see the info that you have.

If you are not having fun, you are not doing it right!

I know an Iranian that prays at the altar of the F-14 that would love to chime in there, lol.

Trample the wounded- hurdle the dead.

What do you guys think about the Lavi? (I think it's designated the F-21. I heard from alot of people, military and non-military, that the USA pressured IAI not to manufacture it, becuase it was better than the F-15/16/18. Any truth in their words?

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -General George Patton

BR...the F-21 was the designation for a group of Kfirs that the U.S. Navy used for a short time for Agressor training. By Lavi, you mean the fighter that the Israelis were developing that was cancelled, right? The one that looked something like an F-16 with a delta wing and canard?

Ted

Politicians and diapers have one thing in common. They should both be changed regularly and for the same reason.
<img src="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/dark2.gif" border=0>

Yeah. I'm talking about the Israeli Airplane Industries project that got cut in the 1990's after the US pressured Israel not to manufacture it.

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -General George Patton

that they then sold to the Chinese for the J-10

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.