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PostPosted: 25 May 2004, 14:05 
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Importing this from Arfcom. Where was everyone on 11 September 2001?

Shortly before waking up as I do any other day, I was shortly woken up by a nieghbor yelling about something, then dozed off again.

9:30ish after breakfast, turned on Howard Stern and was clueless as to why he was ranting about nuking Arabs that day...until he mentioned turning on CNN. Off went the radio, and on went the t.v. The first thing that appeared after finding CNN was the hole in Tower 1 with smoke billowing out of it. Then footage of the second plane hitting the other tower.

Made it in time to see both the towers collapse, and was turning away from the t.v. to use or answer the phone concerning all six cousins that used to work in the world trade center. They were fortunate enough for three to be elsewhere when the attacks happened, two evacuated the building, and the last one almost helped a FDNY fireman carry a hose up the stairs, before to younger employees cut him off and helped the fireman instead.

The three relatives working there managed to get out and find each other right before the tower collapsed. They were more fortunate than roughly 3000 other people, including the friend of my cousin that died in the collapse. She showed me a card resembling a backstage pass that the friends & relatives of those who died received while I was in New York towards the middle of September.



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PostPosted: 25 May 2004, 15:13 
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I was teaching an F-16 engine run class when one of the courseware developers popped in the room telling me an airplane just flew into the world trade center. We had a TV on in the hallway with CNN on, as I walked into the hallway trying to watch the happenings and get my bearings about what just went on I got to see the second one fly into the other tower LIVE! I was floored but knew exactly at that point it was a terrorist attack.

"face it....perhaps your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others!"


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PostPosted: 25 May 2004, 16:30 
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I had just come back from the gym and a message was flashing on my answering machine with an excited message about a plane flying into the World Trade Center. I was thinking,"Gee, probably a Cessna, wonder who pulled that stupid stunt..." as I turned on the TV...to see the second airliner hit. My first thought was,"We're at war," and my immediate second thought was,"Nations have signed their death warrants." I spent most of my time pacing back and forth in my living room growling until class at one.

I don't just think outside the box...I turn it inside out with my mind.


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PostPosted: 25 May 2004, 17:07 
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I remember that day. Everyday since then has seemed like it's gone by fast. I had started my 8th grade year about 3 weeks before, and had been in an acting class. Then one of the teachers comes in and goes turn on the t.v. We see the fire from the first building, and we're like what happened? So we watch for a minute, and then this plane appears on the screen, hits the second building and there's a huge fireball. The guy on CBS goes, "Holy $#!^" and everyone just shuts up. Then everyday after I went to football and it just flew by, like I barely remember those days after. Weird also I got my braces off that day too, and now the orthodontist reminds me of it. Calls me a bad kid.

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PostPosted: 25 May 2004, 17:56 
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I WAS TALKING TO MY MOM ON THE PHONE WHILE OUTSIDE PAINTING MY FOUNDATION.SHE WAS TELLING ME ABOUT A PLANE HITTING ONE OF THE TOWERS,SO I WENT INSIDE TURNED ON THE TUBE IN TIME TO SEE THE SECOND ONE HIT.
THE BIGGEST THING OTHER THAN THE TWIN TOWERS IS HOW VOID THE SKY WAS ON THAT SEPT AFTERNOON.
CLEAR AND IN THE LOW 80'S SUN BRIGHT AND NOT A VAPOR TRAIL ONE FROM COMMERICAL JETS.
BUT THE SOUND OF F-16'S HAULING ASS TOWARDS CHICAGO FOR CAP AND TANKERS FROM MUST OF BEEN FROM GRISSIOM PASSING OVER HEAD.
IT WAS A REAL "HEARTING"FEELING SEEING THOSE GUYS IN THE AIR KNOWING THAT IF THEY TRY AGAIN,THEY FLAME'EM!!!!

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PostPosted: 25 May 2004, 18:39 
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The other thing I remember that day is while on the way to the orthodontist, all you could see in the air were circles from planes turning around. It was very weird. Then during football, I was used to looking up and seeing contrails in the sky because I'm under one of the paths at Kansas City International, but there was not one there, and no sounds, except for one, I'm guessing a plane from Offutt, but I don't know.

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes an even bigger man to laugh at the big man crying.


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PostPosted: 25 May 2004, 20:21 
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Woken up by my business partner by phone told to put on tv.

Seeing f-15 over head in New Orleans was very sobering.

They say these bastards want to strike again, and Kerry and Kennedy dont think we are at war. Or better yet killing them first only recuits more, oh well sniper how is your ammo supply?


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PostPosted: 25 May 2004, 21:08 
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editing out topic change.

"They'll fight you. They'll fight each other if your not around."

Edited by - Lunatock on May 25 2004 8:09 PM

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PostPosted: 25 May 2004, 21:15 
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Coincidently I was in American History class, and my teacher got called out of the room by another teacher. After about 15 minutes, he came back in and told us all that a plane had flown into the World Trade Center and one into the Pentagon. My American History teacher was always a joker, so we didn't think he was telling the truth, but he kept on talking about it until we did believe him. I thought it was just maybe some small private planes that crashed into these buildings, and it wasn't until my second hour class (JROTC) that I saw the devistation. One of my ASIs brought a video in recorded of the last hour or so and we were all shocked. During that hour, we heard a plane (a large jet) coming into land at Barksdale AFB (which is only a few miles away) and I soon learned that in was in fact Air Force One. We were all scared at this point because there were rumors going around that there was still another plane out there looking to crash into Air Force One. A little while later, President Bush made his first statement from Barksdale and departed shortly after. Later when I was walking home, a single F-16 took off from Barksdale and banked to come screaming at a pretty low altitude over my head. I remember looking up and seeing both its wings full of ordinance. I'll never forget every detail of that day...

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PostPosted: 25 May 2004, 23:01 
I was starting my first day at a new job. I was on my way to work in my car and heard it on the Howard Stearn show of all places. Took a while before it became clear it wasn't a Stearn routine.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

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PostPosted: 25 May 2004, 23:53 
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My dad was on federal grand jury duty in Seattle at the time. He showed up, it was cancelled, and everybody was on their cell phones resembling prairie dogs looking up at the skyscrapers wondering if an airliner was gonna park in one from Sea-Tac international.

You can't do anything to excite Washingtonians, tornado in Spokane "Oh, that was cool," 7.0 earthquake that kills thousands in Japan only leaves around a hundred injuries in Seattle, hurricane force winds are something to smile at as a rare treat, we had to import rioters for WTO...even Mt. St. Helens was a side-show...We really need an asteroid to smack Puget Sound and set the Cascade volcanoes off.

I don't just think outside the box...I turn it inside out with my mind.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2004, 05:05 
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did you guys see the inteview with the national guard f-15 pilot who responded to the trade centers. It was an amazing piece of history. The pilot said once they were launched they were allowed to go super sonic, and basically told all FAA rules were out just to get there. I think f-15 were from connecut (hard to remember) and had several hundred miles to fly and arrived on station no more than fifteen minutes after the second plane.

The pilot described how no one knew what was happening, the pentagon had just been hit, a rumors will flying. Basically they he was just looking for targets and was going to do what he had to protect that site.

His most vivid statement is when he rolled inverted get a good look at the site initially, he knew we were at war.

I think the interview was on 60 min. They out to show that to remind our ADD public what is going on.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2004, 05:18 
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<img src="http://c21.maxwell.af.mil/images/Nobel_Eagle_F_15_MA.jpg" border=0>

Eagle over New York

Aviation Week & Space Technology:
June 3, 2002



Exercise Jump-Starts
Response to Attacks

WILLIAM B. SCOTT/ROME, N.Y.,
HERNDON, VA., and COLORADO SPRINGS

On-the-fly innovation, backed by excellent training, 'probably saved many lives' when terrorists struck the U.S.

Sept. 11, 2001: "American 11 heavy, Boston Center. Your transponder appears to be inoperative. Please recycle. . . . American 11 heavy, how do you read Boston Center? Over.


Air National Guard F-15s from Otis ANGB, Mass., scrambled in response to the hijacking of American Airlines Flight 11. They flew supersonically to New York, then intercepted about 100 aircraft during the next 5.5 hr.

"Watch supervisor, I have a possible hijack of American 11 heavy. Recommend notifying Norad."

At 8:40 a.m. EDT, Tech. Sgt. Jeremy W. Powell of North American Aerospace Defense Command's (Norad) Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) in Rome, N.Y., took the first call from Boston Center. He notified NEADS commander Col. Robert K. Marr, Jr., of a possible hijacked airliner, American Airlines Flight 11.

"Part of the exercise?" the colonel wondered. No; this is a real-world event, he was told. Several days into a semiannual exercise known as Vigilant Guardian, NEADS was fully staffed, its key officers and enlisted supervisors already manning the operations center "battle cab."

In retrospect, the exercise would prove to be a serendipitous enabler of a rapid military response to terrorist attacks on Sept. 11. Senior officers involved in Vigilant Guardian were manning Norad command centers throughout the U.S. and Canada, available to make immediate decisions.

Marr ordered two F-15 fighters sitting alert at Otis Air National Guard (ANG) Base, Mass., to "battle stations." "The fighters were cocked and loaded, and even had extra gas on board," he recalled.

SCOTT GWILT/ROME SENTINEL
Relying on "skin-paint" radar returns, Air National Guard troops at Norad's Northeast Air Defense Sector tried to locate hijacked aircraft after terrorists silenced the transponders.

Marr called Maj. Gen. Larry Arnold, commander of the Continental U.S. Norad Region (Conar), at Tyndall AFB, Fla., told him about the suspected hijacked aircraft and suggested interceptors be scrambled. Arnold, who also heads the 1st Air Force for Air Combat Command, was in his Air Operations Center preparing for another day of the exercise.

"I told him to scramble; we'll get clearances later," Arnold said. His instincts to act first and get permission later were typical of U.S. and Canadian commanders that day. On Sept. 11, the normal scramble-approval procedure was for an FAA official to contact the National Military Command Center (NMCC) and request Pentagon air support. Someone in the NMCC would call Norad's command center and ask about availability of aircraft, then seek approval from the Defense Secretary--Donald H. Rumsfeld--to launch fighters.

Lt. Col. Timothy (Duff) Duffy, a 102 Fighter Wing (FW) F-15 pilot at Otis ANGB, had already heard about the suspected hijacking, thanks to a phone call from the FAA's Boston Approach Control. He had the call transferred to the unit's command post, grabbed Maj. Daniel (Nasty)Nash, his wingman, and started suiting up. Another officer told Duffy, "This looks like the real thing."

"Halfway to the jets, we got 'battle stations,' and I briefed Nasty on the information I had about the American Airlines flight," Duffy said. "About 4-5 min. later, we got the scramble order and took off."

Also an airline pilot, Duffy had a bad feeling about the suspected hijacking; something didn't feel right. Consequently, he jammed the F-15's throttles into afterburner and the two-ship formation devoured the 153 mi. to New York City at supersonic speeds. "It just seemed wrong. I just wanted to get there. I was in full-blower all the way," he said.

Unknown to Duffy, Nash and every commander being notified at the time, American Flight 11 had crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center (WTC) about the time both F-15s were taking off. America's terrorist nightmare had begun.

Almost simultaneous with Marr's call to Arnold at Conar, the same hijack notification was being passed by phone to a Norad command center deep inside Cheyenne Mountain near Colorado Springs, and the joint FAA/ Defense Dept. Air Traffic Services Cell (ATSC) colocated with the FAA's ATC System Command Center in Herndon, Va. (AW&ST Dec. 17, 2001, p. 96).

"NEADS instantly ordered the scramble, then called me to get Cinc [Norad commander-in-chief] approval for it," said Capt. Michael H. Jellinek, a Canadian Forces (Navy) officer serving as Norad command director that morning. He's also director of plans, requirements and readiness at Norad's Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station. Fortunately, Maj. Gen. Eric A. Findley, another Canadian and Norad's director of operations, was already in the mountain for the Vigilant Guardian exercise. He quickly approved the fighters' launch.

Back at the NEADS Operations Center, identification technicians were sorting thousands of green dots on their radar scopes, looking for American Flight 11. Since terrorists had turned off the Boeing 767's transponder, FAA controllers could only tell NEADS technicians where the flight had last been seen. The NEADS radar screens showed "primary" or "skin-paint" returns, the raw radar pulses reflected from an aircraft's surface.

Ironically, FAA officials only a few months earlier had tried to dispense with "primary" radars altogether, opting to rely solely on transponder returns as a way to save money. Norad had emphatically rejected the proposal. Still, on Sept. 11, Norad's radars were spread around the periphery of the U.S., looking outward for potential invaders. Inside U.S. borders, very few radars were feeding NEADS scopes.

In essence, technicians were half-blind, trying to separate hijacked airliners from thousands of skin-paint returns. At the time, more than 4,000 aircraft were airborne over the nation, most in the northeast sector, which monitors half a million square miles of airspace.

"We were trying to determine which [radar return] was him. But we couldn't get what we needed just from our scopes," said MSgt. Maureen Dooley, a noncommissioned officer in charge (NCOIC) of NEADS' identification technicians. She and other troops were constantly on the phone with the FAA, airlines and others, looking for clues. "If we could get good last-known-positions and tail numbers, that would help the fighters pick out the right aircraft."

"The biggest task was maintaining track continuity," echoed Tech. Sgt. Jeffrey Lamarche, NCOIC of the air surveillance section. Later, his team thought they had spotted a fifth hijacked aircraft. "This fifth guy made an abrupt turn toward a major city--but it was OK. He was told to land there. It sure had our hearts going and adrenaline pumping. We didn't know what he was doing."

Marr capsulized the tense moments: "The NEADS battle managers get the last known location, estimate [Flight AA11's] speed and find a green dot that's not identified. Almost as soon as it's discovered, it disappears. It's 8:46 a.m. A shocked airman rushes from the computer maintenance room saying, 'CNN is reporting that the World Trade Center has been hit by an airliner.' There are no other missing aircraft. As we watch the TV, another airliner shows up on the screen, aimed for the second tower [9:02 a.m.]. The shocking reality becomes apparent. This is no longer 'an accident.' New York City is under attack."

Flying supersonically, the F-15s were still 8 min. from Manhattan when United Airlines Flight 175 smashed into the WTC's south tower. "Huntress," the NEADS weapons control center, had told Duffy his hijacked target was over John F. Kennedy International Airport. He hadn't heard about the United aircraft yet.

"The second time I asked for bogey dope [location of AA11], Huntress told me the second aircraft had just hit the WTC. I was shocked . . . and I looked up to see the towers burning," Duffy said. He asked for clarification of their mission, but was met with considerable confusion.

In Norad's command center, "a bunch of things started happening at once," Jellinek said. "We initiated an Air Threat Conference [call]. We were getting information about other possible hijackings." Telephone links were established with the NMCC, Canada's equivalent command center, Strategic Command, theater Cincs and federal emergency-response agencies. At one time or another, President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld and key military officers were heard on the open line.

Confusion was rampant, but officers and enlisted troops immediately reverted to their professional roles, trying to sort rumor from fact. Findley and his senior staff in the Norad Battle Management Center told each air defense sector to "generate, generate, generate" sorties--get as many fighters in the air as possible.

AT THE TIME, NORAD had 20 fighters on armed alert throughout the North American continent. Only 14 were in the continental U.S. at seven bases; the rest were in Alaska and Canada. Within 18 hr., 300 fighters would be on alert at 26 locations.

Calls from fighter units also started pouring into Norad and sector operations centers, asking, "What can we do to help?" At Syracuse, N.Y., an ANG commander told Marr, "Give me 10 min. and I can give you hot guns. Give me 30 min. and I'll have heat-seeker [missiles]. Give me an hour and I can give you slammers [Amraams]."

Marr replied, "I want it all." NEADS controllers put F-16s at Langley AFB, Va., on battle-stations alert at 9:09 a.m., prepared to back up the F-15s over New York. But the FAA command center then reported 11 aircraft either not in communication with FAA facilities, or flying unexpected routes. At 9:24, the Langley-based alert F-16s were scrambled and airborne in 6 min., headed for Washington.

By 9:26 a.m., the FAA command center stopped all departures nationwide. At 9:41, American Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, elevating tension levels even further. NEADS' Sr. Airman Stacia Rountree, an identification technician, said, "We had three aircraft down and the possibility of others hijacked. We had to think outside the box," making up procedures on the fly. Before the day ended, 21 aircraft across the U.S. had been handled as "tracks of interest."

"We didn't know how many more there were. . . . Are there five? Six? The only way we could tell was to implement Scatana--sanitize the airspace. Get everybody down," said Lt. Col. William E. Glover, Jr., chief of Norad's air defense operations.

Gen. Ralph E. Eberhart, Norad commander-in-chief, was in the Cheyenne Mountain battle center by then. He and his staff suggested, via an open command link, implementing a limited version of Scatana--a federal plan designed to take emergency control of all domestic air traffic and navigation aids. Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta immediately concurred and gave the order to get all aircraft on the ground as soon as possible. That action probably saved many lives, but without unnecessary, paralyzing restrictions of a full Scatana order.

Mineta's decision--and the military recommendation that triggered it--may have been prompted by a few airline pilots reporting terrorists on the radio, talking about other hijacked aircraft. American Flight 77 had hit the Pentagon, and United Flight 93 was being tracked, heading for Chicago or Cleveland, then Washington, prompting the F-16s' scramble.

"We had all of our armed fighters in the air, but needed more," Marr said. Every unit in the northeastern U.S. was loading F-16s, F-15s and A-10s with any armament available, then being directed to combat air patrols (CAPs) over major cities. Soon, Navy F/A-18s, F-14s and E-2Cs--some from two carriers steaming off the East Coast--were flying CAP and surveillance missions over major cities. Ultimately, Navy P-3s and USAF/ ANG C-130s would be pressed into service, using their normal radars to search for intruders.

At Norad, Glover phoned Arnold, telling him Vice President Cheney had given the authorization to shoot down any threatening aircraft in order to save lives on the ground. "We created a free-fire zone over the nation's capital," Arnold said. "Anyone airborne who did not immediately turn away from the center of town, or who did not land, could be shot down."

When someone--possibly President Bush--ordered the military to a Force Protection Condition Delta wartime posture, Norad commanders ordered massive steel doors be closed, "shutting down Cheyenne Mountain for real," the first time in its 43-year history, an officer said. The FBI had warned that a flight originating in San Diego might be hijacked and headed for a target in Colorado. Another rumor referred to a Ryder rental truck full of explosives and driven by "Arab-looking men" targeting the mountain.

"It didn't make sense, but those phone calls were happening," Glover said. Every rumor was treated as a potential threat.

OVER NEW YORK, Duffy and Nash requested that a Maine-based ANG KC-135 tanker--assigned to support 102 FW training missions that morning--be positioned at 20,000 ft. above Kennedy airport. "Then, we worked on intercepting and visually identifying nearly everything that was in the air for the next five hours," Duffy said.

"I treated this as a combat hop from the moment I saw the towers burning, and that made it easier to deal with . . . actions we might have to take," he added.

Duffy estimated the F-15s intercepted and escorted about 100 aircraft, including emergency, military and news helicopters, plus dozens of private pilots who were unaware of the attacks. Some had seen the smoke over New York and decided to investigate. Nash said the F-15s flew "low-and-slow" to intercept helicopters flying at 500 ft.

When the KC-135 exhausted its fuel load and had to depart, a KC-10 arrived to support the F-15s. Another two Eagles from Otis ANGB joined the first two, flying CAP over New York. Duffy and Nash were directly over the north WTC tower when it collapsed. When they finally returned to Otis, they had been on CAP about 5.5 hr.

Above Washington, F-16s flown by crews of the 119th FW from Fargo, N.D.--which had been pulling Norad alert duty at Langley AFB--were prepared to shoot down United 93, if it came toward the capital city. Instead, passengers rushed the terrorists, causing the Boeing 757 to crash in southwestern Pennsylvania.

MAJ. PHILIP J. MCCARTHY, a weapons controller at NEADS, located an AWACS crew in the southeastern U.S. on a training mission and arranged to reposition it in the Northeast. "We wanted D.C. as the primary area for AWACS, but also wanted him to look into New York," he said. In the confusion of the all-aircraft-grounding, someone told the AWACS to go back to Tinker AFB, Okla., its home base, but McCarthy was able to convince the crew to stay.

At the Herndon ATSC, Col. John Czabaranek and a growing staff of USAF Reserves--many reported, unasked, to help with the crisis--had become a critical communications node, shuttling information among the FAA, Norad, air defense sectors, the White House, Secret Service and other agencies. During the day, ATSC helped organize fighter escorts for Bush's Air Force One. The President was in Sarasota, Fla., when the attacks occurred, but was quickly taken to Barksdale AFB, La., then to Offutt AFB, Neb.

At one point, the Secret Service wanted to get Bush into Cheyenne Mountain, protected by tons of granite, yet well-connected to his staff. However, advisers convinced him that he should "remain visible to the public," an officer said.

"We received tasking from the Secret Service . . . to follow the President and protect him," Conar commander Arnold said in Lockheed Martin's Code One magazine. "We were not told where Air Force One was going. We were told just to follow the President. We scrambled available airplanes from Tyndall and then from Ellington [AFB] near Houston, Tex. . . . We maintained AWACS overhead the whole route."

Late in the day, after NEADS confirmed a suspected hijacked airliner from Madrid, Spain, had turned around and was on the ground, Air Force One was cleared to return Bush to Washington. NEADS and the Herndon cell also organized fighter escorts for Attorney General John Ashcroft and other national leaders when deemed necessary.

WHILE ALL MILITARY units responded quickly and professionally on Sept. 11, "citizen soldiers" were typically first on the scene. Air National Guard and Reserve units were called initially, simply because many of them were easier to contact without going through a long, tortuous chain of command. Since then, outmoded procedures have been altered to ensure faster reactions from all units.

"The responsiveness of the Air National Guard [and other] units called into action--and how quickly they all came to the defense of the United States--was phenomenal," said Col. Clark F. Speicher, NEADS vice commander. "Within a couple of hours, many of these units went from normal training to generating armed combat air patrols over many U.S. cities. There may have been a lot of different [armament] configurations out there, but so what." Fighters typically carried Aim-9, Aim-7 or Amraam missiles, and 20-mm. ammunition.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2004, 06:32 
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Personally I like the hogs doing their part does this earn new designation fa-10. Think the Hogs part should be documented in history better.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2004, 07:42 
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In Small's book on the Hawg in Desert Storm I, there's a cartoon depicting the "RFOA-10G" Warthog.<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Live every day like it's the last, 'cause one day you're gonna be right!" Ray Charles

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PostPosted: 26 May 2004, 09:24 
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LOL! Hogs flying CAP!<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

Marge: There's someone here who I think can help you. Homer: Who, Batman? Marge: No he's a scientist. Homer: Batman's a scientist? Marge: It's not Batman!


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PostPosted: 26 May 2004, 10:16 
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I see two reference to hogs actually doing that on september 11 and after because they were the only assets available. Also when that Golfer crashed a few years back the new reported that hogs were in the area at first trying to figure out what happened.

Just kinda would like to see cessna versus the gun lol.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2004, 10:35 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I see two reference to hogs actually doing that on september 11 and after because they were the only assets available. Also when that Golfer crashed a few years back the new reported that hogs were in the area at first trying to figure out what happened.

Just kinda would like to see cessna versus the gun lol.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

You're correct. An Eglin Hog was diverted to help initially with Stewart's Lear.

I was briefing to fly that morning. Like those that remember where they were during JFK, this is much the same.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2004, 12:41 
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I think I was using the computer when I heard my sister yell "What the hell?" from the living room. I was staying home cuz my school was on a trip I didn't want to go on. I stayed watching TV until I had a doc's appointment.

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI


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PostPosted: 26 May 2004, 20:45 
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you know guys as I think through things with these new alqada threats is the Military allowed to engage these combatant on our soil or is it a lawenforcement issure. The reason I ask down in Louisiana with all our coast line only the military could engage these fools if they were to come in by large vessels. I know during world war 2 we had shore patrols and the civil airpatrol (which did carry bombs). What would be the equivelant? Basically if a military pilot, soldier, or so on were to witness this crap clearly and undenibly happening again would he have to wait to engage. In my mind could the military have engaged the second trade center attacker without a direct order?


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