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For years, the classic car market has been well overpriced, with price runs on certain cars being caused not by people who want to restore these beautiful pieces of automotive art, but by people looking for an investment. Soaring prices have been keeping the "little guy" out of the classic car market. Prices have been getting so bad that I was recently quoted a price of $8000 for a rusted out body, no mechanicals, suspension, glass or anything else included. This body probably would've cost another 10000 to restore to original. Well, the guys at Classic Automotive Restoration are starting to put out original bodies for classic musclescars. Everything's exactly the same, the dimensions, the welds, everything. While I haven't decided whether this is good or bad, it's at least cool.

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Awesome TG I had no idea you had an intrest in cars, Ive started on Mustang projects lately. I have 2 Vettes neatly tucked away in my hanger.

This winter it is a 600hp Modular for the Wifes GT, My Cobra is Completed and going through paint. ( my 2nd the first was arsoned)

IF i was to do it all over again, I would go the New body route. My modifications are purely Drive Train and Paint. Im not one for the Cut and Weld Stuff. Although having a Family machine shop gives me the freedom to Mill parts as needed.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

Mudd,

When you're talkin' about gearheads, I'm as bad as they come (sts). I love working on musclescars. Finished a restified '69 Camaro a couple years back. Haven't been able to work on anything since due to lack of garage (apartment) and now living on the RoK. Hope to start a '68 Camaro Convertible (RS) when I get back to the states and a real garage again. I usually sell my creations, but I'm planning on building this one for me. The current list of modifications is long and distinguished to include EFI, sequential turbos, 6 speed gearbox, IRS and several other mods that may or may not be possible. I love doing the engineering, but not everything works out all the time.

Send me some pics of your cars when you get a chance. Outside of the family and flying Hogs, musclecars are my #1 interest.

TG -

Honestly I don't think that what Classic Automotive is doing will affect the classic car market very much at all.

The true collectors aren't going to put any stock into a fabricated body. These "original bodies" will get the same opinion as Shelby kit cars do... they're NOT original.

They'll be great for people that just want the 'look' of a classic, and they'll probably be a heckuva lot cheaper too, but I don't think they're going to affect the value of "true" classics.

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Oh man, i'm a big time gear head myself.

I've tweaked the Porsche up from the factory HP rating of 234 to about 350 horseys, and i am the prowd owner of a 400 horsepower Buick T Type Turbo too.

I've had lotsa hotrods over the years. God i love horsepower.

"Molon labe".
Leonidas, King of Sparta,
Thermopylae, 480 B.C.

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TG -

Honestly I don't think that what Classic Automotive is doing will affect the classic car market very much at all.
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I tend to disagree. People looking for an all original car for collection or investment purposes will obviously have no interest in these. However, the many, many, many people who want these cars to build will no longer be forced to pay the obscenely high prices demanded for them currently. I think, if and when this gets going and is much more common, there will be a lowering of prices simply because there are now less people out there looking to buy. Pretty much the way any supply and demand system works, however, the demand in this case isn't always for the absolute original product.

Well then, if the price for parts and original bodies drops due to these 'fabricated' bodies, you're going to lose out in the end. Yes, when building your cars you'll get a break if the prices have dropped, but on the same note if you try to insure or sell the car, its value is in turn going to suffer.

This is why I said I don't think that fabricated bodies will affect the <i>classic</i> car market; I know several classic car owners, and they wouldn't go for something like this to depreciate their investments. What you're going to see here is people that haven't been able to afford the "real thing" buying these bodies like kits and rebuilding cars that way.

A true investor/collector will be able to tell the difference, assuming the truth isn't disclosed already, and the "true classic car guys" won't buy into them, thus the value of the 'true classics' will hold up. These fabricated bodies will be a separate facet of the classic car market from now on.

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Benjamin Franklin, 1759

There are several companies that make brand new bodies for Jeeps too. The biggest sellers are the old WWII Willy's MBs. Lots of people buy the new bodies, which are made out of steel, aluminum, fiberglass, or Kevlar, for their classic project Jeeps. These Jeeps are typically used for shows, parades, or just tooling around on the weekends. However, the real collectors, as you mentioned, want all of the serial numbers on the body, frame, etc., to match up or they are not interested. They are looking for history.

Of course, most people who build project Jeeps won't spend all of that money on the body, because most project Jeeps end up out on the trail anyways. The majority of the money goes into trying to built a bulletproof drivetrain and a light but torquey powerplant.

~Thud

Edited by - thud on Sep 22 2004 09:53 AM

Snipe,Thats Great, Mostly Better Flow Mods? All N/A?

Snipe we need a Motorsport Forum.

I disagree with the worries of cost inflation or deflation. Once I build a Car it is mine forever. Soon i will have one to be passed off to my son when he hits driving age, and so forth. We are starting on a project that is soley for him, and he will have 5 years investment in on the vehicle before he gets to drive it.

For the outsource machining and manufacturing buisness's this will help sustain them. If you look at the American industrial complex and what we as consumers buy, it is quickly evident that we have no industrial support of our intrests. Most everything we purchase is from foriegn importers or companies that choose to manufacture outside of conus. This is monies not going into our workers pockets or economies.

I prefer to buy Ford Mustangs because of their quick depreciation, In turn with about 10K investment I have a 600-700HP car that will blow the doors off any import and the Monies all go back to US manufacturers.

I choose to sustain america, not Europe or Asia.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

Mudd,

Feel sort of the same way. I don't really care about depreciation/appreciation. The next cars I build are mine. If I wanted an original, I'd buy one. I want the old looks (in my mind, they can't be beat) with new technology. Knowing that I may, in a coupla years, be able to get a brand new body for a '68 Camaro without having to deal with people asking 2-3 times what their "body" is worth is great is my opinion.

As far as the whole manufacturing thing goes, these bodies are stamped (the parts, that is) somewhere overseas and then shipped to New Jersey for final welding/assembly/inspection/etc.

Mudd, i've added 3" dual cold air inlets, 30 degrees of ignition timing, off-road Borla racing exhaust(minus cats, of course, lol), yanked two belt driven accessories, lost the clutch fan(replaced with dual electrics), adj fuel pressure regulator running at 85psi, yanked the A/C system, and shaved about 300lbs of weight from the car. The motor also has ported and polished heads, euro cams, and a port matched intake.

Runs about a 13.5 in the Quarter; at 103+ mph....top end in excess of 160mph- confirmed.

Muwahahahahahaha....

The T-Type runs the 1/4 in the low 12s at about 110+mph @ 18 pounds of boost.

"Molon labe".
Leonidas, King of Sparta,
Thermopylae, 480 B.C.

Hey Mudd, you have a PhD in Aerospace engineering and also like to tinker with cars.
Ever consider combining the two and invent the first <i>flying car</i>??
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Good Gauge Snipe Right Now i am 10.18 sae in the 1/4 At my Altitude it is 11.4 (5400 MSL) Going to try and work on my 60FT times. Was real gentle on it this year (only 1200 Miles before breakin)

04 Cobra @ 725HP/685rwtQ
5.4L DOHC, Ported and Polished Cobra 4V Heads (designed for Blower) Custom Crower Cams Kenny Bell 2.2 S/C at 20 PSI of Boost,KB Precharge Cooler, .Forged Internals with 9.5:1 (was 10:1) but when upped another 50 Horspower got detonation, so I machined Phenolic HeadGasketS : ))
80# injectors, TWo Inline Pumps and a 20 Gallon Race Cell
Battery Relocated to the rear
Tubular K Member and Swingarms

Bassini Exhaust O/R Xpipe, Magnaflow Catback with electric Dumps (Causes rockslides in the canyons)

6 Speed FFRP Race Tranny. 4:10's in the rear (going back to 3:73 Breaks traction in all gears, not safe for open road racing-canyons)

13" Brembo Cobra R Brake (4 wheel Disc)

Getting painted With Cobra R Body Kit right now.

Roll Cage

Looking at differnt Seats. But undecided

Wifes 96 Gt, yes thats right the bingo Special with the bad Fuel gauge, is getting raped apart right now. (yes im not gentle)
The Grocery Getter is getting More Bang for the Bling.

BBK O/R H Magnaflow Catback. Did this last week.

Winterplans

Soon to Order
Forged 318, FFRP Race Block 9.5:1 CR
2v Ported Heads or possibly my extra 4 Valve navigator heads
Mach1 Variable Runner Intake
Custom Cams to match.
Novi 2000 SC

the guys I know running this motor and Tune Combination are hitting 630 HP

Rebuild the Tranny and the 8.8 with 4:10's

Keep the Body stock, perfect sleeper nobody respects the 4.6L Plenty of turbos around and Hondas to humiliate. It's payback time on the way to wallmart.



"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

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Hey Mudd, you have a PhD in Aerospace engineering and also like to tinker with cars.
Ever consider combining the two and invent the first <i>flying car</i>??
<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/idea.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_bow.gif border=0 align=middle>


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Actually No, I was raised in Monument Valley, We made cars fly all the time, a Bottle of Wild Turkey 3 navajo buddies, a Galaxy 500 and Railroad track intersections, their good for 50 Footers. "Fly fat ass Fly"

Mission accomplished.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

Sweet, you guys actually had space to do that stuff in Monument.
There's absolutely no doubt I'd be launching cars to the friggin' <i>moon</i> if I was raised there.



Edited by - tritonal on Sep 23 2004 12:44 AM

TG,

Yeah I had a 69 Chevelle ss malibu Vert. I loved that car it was my baby took me 7 years to get it restored. Only to sale it away after College.

I drove nothing but beaters in the military, some so bad ..well nevermind

My father had a 69 Stingray he passed on to me lastyear, and it is never driven, it stays under tarp and on blocks. I promised him i would'nt Drive it until he passed away ( he is a nutjob about his baby) I purchused a 83 Vette back in 88 and Had done allot of work on that, I still have it but its a Primer POS and needs some TLC i am unwilling to give it at the moment, Having too much fun with the EFI stuff.

I built a Glassair2 and sold it off last year as well as a couple other projects. Started getting back in sailplanes the past 2 years since i Retired. I let another Go, and still have my First Ship i bought at Edwards (ASW-19)

If i was to build a classic again, their is no Doubt in my mind it would be a Camaro You just cant beat its Style, or a GTO. Lots of possibiliies, I guess having been exposed to my dads Wrench throwing Navy sea Dog language as a Part retriever burned the classics out of me. I am slowy edgeing back to it. I miss the Leg Room, May even try to bugger the old crow in it. She doesnt know it yet, but it will happen. MUWAHAHAHA

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

Edited by - mrmudd on Sep 23 2004 12:52 AM

My wifey has actually expressed interest in helping to rebuild the cars with me. Of course, she also wants a first gen Mustang for herself. But if it keeps me out of the doghouse and in the garage, so be it.

My wife was the one to get me into mustangs too, I was strictly Vettes, We got the 96 for her. I Actually liked its low cost and potential so much, that i Traded the Zo6 in and havnt wiped a tear Since with the Cobras.

I do have a friend with several Mustangs (60's) and a Convertible that he is willing to sell, I dont expect an unreasonable price tag. One of them is a Creme allmost Yellow Convertible. Would be a Good Car requiring minimal investment.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

Will have to look into that when I get back to the states, if it's still on the market. Thanks!

Any truck guys around here? Or old mil vehicle guys?