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I posted this in a motorcycle forum I hang out in and thought you guys might be able to help.

Well on top of my duties as a First Sergeant I also volunteeted to be a mentor to the younger riders in my squadron. Friday I get a call about a young troop that has less than 45 days on a bike. He did complete MSF basic course. He had been seen riding somewhat eractic and unsafe. I take him for a check ride into town and on out on 521 and 378. I point out some of his short comings, one of which is not using his mirrors. This along with a few other bad habits he seems to be developing concerned me and I went over each of them carefully. He seemed to understand the seriousness of the situation.

Fastfoward to monday morning and I get a call from this troops supervisor. He tells me his guy is in jail, part of the job bailing troops out of jail. I said what did he do? Well he drove approx. 5 miles with a city cop trying to pull him over. During this 5 miles he made a lane change and a right hand turn without seeing the cops blue lights. He also was going 70 mph in a 45 and then 70 in a 35. By the time he did see the blue lights the cop thought he had a runner on his hands. So when my guy stopped deputy dog pulled his service weapon on him. He then went to jail for wreckless driving instead of failing to stop for a blue light, better? I dont know the difference, all I know is I am at the detention center when I had scheduled training to be at.

So I bail him out and just as I am ready to chew his butt he drops another bomb. This was his SECOND wreckless driving ticket in the last 72 hours. It seems he went to Chatanooga for the weekend, told no one inclulding his flight (mandatory) or immediate supervisor (mandatory). Do you want to know how he earned this wreckless driving ticket?

He was driving on a 4 Lane road, speed is limit 55 MPH on this road. His friend was in a car and driving in the right hand lane. He was in the left lane beside his friend. He and the friend are carrying a conversation while in this configuration. Their speed is approx 35MPH. Their are in fact impeding traffic. Now my guy is showing off by speeding up and slowing down. About this time a pick-up with 3 locals comes up behind him and wants to pass. He doesnt see them because 1) he doesnt use his mirrors and 2) he is distracted showing off for his friend. The guy in the pick-up gets impaitent and tailgates my guy. Now at this point my guy gets mad and thinks the best way to deal with this pick-up guy is to shoot him the bird. Cool huh? The truck is 4,000lbs of death right behind him and instead of yeilding the right of way he uses the one finger salute. I would have a least let the guy pass and then told him he was number one.

Anyway my guy passes his friend and merges into the right lane. Pick-up man passess in a rage, merges into the right lane and immediately locks up his brakes. My guy being inexperienced is unable to out brake a pick-up. Let's see the truck weighs nearly 4,000lbs and his bike maybe 400lbs. He winds up dumping his bike. This is where it gets interesting. It seems ole pick-up man and his two hinchmen get out and instead of apoligizing threaten to kick his butt. Luckily for him his friend, the one that managed to not run over him, steps in and calls the cops.

Cops come and say tire marks support his story along with his friends statement. The pick-up man gets a wreckless citation. Seems to me he should have got an attempted murder charge. Anyway pick-up man says my guy was driving like an idiot. So deputy gives him a wreckless also.

Now I know there is a lot to digest here. The Pick-up man should be drawn and quartered however, if my guy had used some sense, a little awareness and tact there would have been no problem. As for the 2nd incident well he screwed up. My question is this, how do I keep this kid from becoming a motorcycle statistic? God knows if one more person is hurt at Shaw AFB on a motorcycle we may not be able to ride at all. Swedge knows exactly what I mean. So a little help or advice if you got any.


Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

How many citations does it take before his ticket to ride is yanked? (Assuming he lives that long.)

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson

as sargent how much lattitude do you have in making his life creatively miserable as a consquence of his actions as to provide an incentive not to be an indiot no more. My dad talks about his days in vietnam era using a tooth brush to clean the floors and hours upon hours of kp but that is the army. I have also heard other vets talk about creative physical fitness routines. Seems to me this idiot should be the most in shape, best cook, and cleanest airman in the airforce after about one month.

His license will be revoked, he has allready exceeded the "points" a wreckless driving i believe is 80 Points each, we as adults are only afforded 130 Points before revokation.

In utah the Statute is 3 tiered. Revoke, Suspended and denied status.

My question is this, as a SNCO Fender I would order him not to ride the motorcycle. Secondly I would also Publicise it within the squadron that he is not to ride the motorcycle any longer until you decide he is ready for the handling the responsebility. This is a Priviledge and not a right!

If anyone in the Squadron conceals his abusive vehicle behavior or anyone else participates in this activity, I would be just as harsh.

Personally I would Bring him up on charges so that he stand before the Squadron commander, and he should be made an example of.


Overseas, Nobody below the rank of E-5 has the right or priveledge to own a Motorcycle or ride one. They did this becasue they recognised that the younger troops were not mature- or ready for the severe consequences under SOFA in the foriegn host countries. It also prevented allot of deaths.

What you have on your hands right now Fender is an ungovernable and unaccountable Troop, that needs a swift and hard humiliating Kick in the Balls. He is putting your Squadron at risk by his poor example which can potentially effect the safety of the other personal in the command by having the idea they can also act out in a similar fashion as being acceptable.

"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see their near and dear bathed in tears, to ride their horses and sleep on the white bellies of their wives and daughters."
-Genghis Khan

_________________
\"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. \"

George S. Patton

I would agree with The Big Thug (did I say that outloud? <img src=newicons/anim_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>) He should be made an example of, he will thank you for it when he is older and more mature.

<img src="http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/457/bgnrjsiiw81q1gc.jpg" border=0>

Had 30MM jr run the situation past his First Shirt and..he agrees with Thug, too!<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> He was also infavor- somewhat jokingly- of having the troop walk his bike around the base perimeter on a particularly nasty day and then disassemble it, clean it and reassemble in order to achieve a better appreciation for it and the privilege.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson

Just got done bending the ear of a co-worker. He's a retired Cmsgt/1st Sgt. He says that you cant take the bike away per se but........ he would give the troup an instant LOR for endangering govt property and have it administered by the commander. Next he would persue the being arrested part by an article 15 for failure to show the proper image of the Air Force.

<img src="http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/457/bgnrjsiiw81q1gc.jpg" border=0>

This is nothing a field grade Article 15 won't correct IMO.

Hell, that's why they exist.

Take half his pay, restrict him, and give him all kinds of good extra duty(since that's also your role) for 3 months...see if that doesn't straighten him out.



<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> The Pick-up man should be drawn and quartered however<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Not sure I agree...

If the kid on the bike wasn't a grade one A$$-hole he would not have got brake tested.

I know you are a biker and will defend your own, but you don't block a lane and then give the guys you're pissing off the finger.

It's a case of reaping what you sow.

Just my two cents...

"I can just punch holes in paper for sooo long before I want to see something blow up/fall down "
- Boomer 5th May 2005

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If the kid on the bike wasn't a grade one A$$-hole he would not have got brake tested. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

You are correct and if you had read the whole sentence you would see that I alluded to this fact. My guy started and escalated the whole event right up until he pulled over into the right lane. After that ole pick up man was the aggressor and needs to be charged with road rage.

To everyone one that responded, thanks. As far as what action the Commander will take is not the issue I needed help with. The commmander will take his base driving privilges for an extended period of time. All of you that wanted him 15'd that may or may not happen. What I was looking for is something I could do/say that may reach the inner depths of this kid's pysche that will help me keep him alive? Punishment means nothing to these kids today.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>What you have on your hands right now Fender is an ungovernable and unaccountable Troop, that needs a swift and hard humiliating Kick in the Balls. He is putting your Squadron at risk by his poor example which can potentially effect the safety of the other personal in the command by having the idea they can also act out in a similar fashion as being acceptable. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I agree with you on this. Trust me, my Commander is a no nonsense leader. She has already proven herself capable of using all the tools available to her to maintain good order and discipline. As an example she gave a 15 to someone that was riding a motorcycle without a helmet and was seen by another Commander. So the punishment is not the problem. I truly want to reach this kid before he kills himself.

I dont think he will lose his license because the tickets were in two different states. Here in SC the wreckless driving ticket is worth 6 points (10 to lose license). In Tennesse I am not sure what the points are. Unless Tennesse shares with SC one may not know about the other. Right now it doesnt matter as his bike is impounded and he is not allowed to ride it until his court date. Depending ont the outcome there he may or may not get his privliges back to ride off base however as I stated he will not be riding on base anytime soon.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

"What I was looking for is something I could do/say that may reach the inner depths of this kid's pysche that will help me keep him alive?"

I would mention the following phrase: "Son, right now you're on the brink of a Chapter 13 discharge for Patterns of misconduct. F up one more time, and that's exactly what i'm going to reccomend to the boss".

Lord knows troops have been chaptered for less...i've seen it. If that doesn't straighten him out, then nothing will IMO.

And seriously, there is NO WAY this kid shouldn't get at LEAST a Company grade Art. 15 for his troubles.



<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>

I hear what you are saying Snipe and agree with you. By the way, no company grade 15's in my squadron. The boss does them all and she is a LtCol. It's an amazing thing, she is a very nice person but when that office door shuts she transforms into a hardcore Bit&H. Hell she even scares me and I am only present as a advocate for the troop.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

doubt you have much left to advocate for him on his behalf. He was just wrong and should shut up take his punishment and pray for his future.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>doubt you have much left to advocate for him on his behalf. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Actually one of the roles of the Shirt is to stand beside his troop and ensure fair and equatable punishment is adiministered. Once that happens the Shirt ensures the troop is fully aware of his rights and his options when offered an Article 15. There is much to advocate even when a troop is guilty. Of course the Shirt is charged with maintaining good order and discipline. These two roles are not exclusive of each other although it may seem so.

I just had a troop that had recieved 3 article 15's, a summary courts-martial conviction and a general courts-martial conviction. All within a 15 month time frame. Lets just say the legal office was slow to get his discharge completed before he found more trouble each time. He finally got 14 Months confinement and a BCD. I testified against him at both trials. However I also have been to visit him and ensure he has the basic essentials for confinement, stamps, envolopes etc. Last tuesday I transported him to the Naval Brig at Charleston Naval Weapons station. Once again I ensured he was treated fairly on in processing the brig. I will in the future visit him as is my resposibility to do. Having said that I am so glad this dirt bag POS is out of my unit and behind bars. In 23 years I have never had contact with a more Jacked Up airmen. Racial slurs, AWOL, False Offical Statements, barracks theif, direspect to jr and Sr NCO's, breaking base restriction, failure to obey direct and written orders and failure to go are just some the BS this kid got into.
I told you that to say this, I have to help the commander maintain good order and discipline while being an advocate for my troops, even when they are screw ups. Sometimes it isnt easy and it isnt always rewarding. However when you help a troop, like motorcycle boy mentioned in the begining of this thread, stay alive or you respond to a domestic and prevent someone from getting hurt it is all worth it and then some.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

"I hear what you are saying Snipe and agree with you. By the way, no company grade 15's in my squadron. The boss does them all and she is a LtCol. "

Hehe, Field grade it is then.

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>