WT Forums

I am a DAV USAF, with 8 years active duty experience.

However, I am trying to locate some information on the A-10, and I couldn't seem to find a better place to get the real facts.

As my memory serves, and was told by an instructor in Tech School, the A-10, in the very beginning when it was being flight tested, that it did in fact have a 50cal in the nose of the aircraft. But, they ended up changing to a 30cal Gatlin Gun because the 50cal would cause the plane to stallout.

If I am wrong or was wrongly told, I may need to make some corrections to some threads in which I have stated this as a fact.

Could someone provide me any links or sources in which I may find this information to prove or disprove that the A-10 did in fact have a 50cal in the nose of the aircraft prior to the USAF recieving this aircraft into service?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

First welcome to the board. If memory suits me correctly (i'll be corrected if I am wrong) the first A-10 flew with a 20mm M61 because the 30mm GAU8 wasnt ready in time for the first few flights. It was designed from the beginning to have the 30mm. It has never flown with the 50 cal.

<img src="http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/457/bgnrjsiiw81q1gc.jpg" border=0>

Gravity....its not just a good idea, its the law.

First welcome to WT. Now you have some bad info there. The A-10 has a 30MM gatlin gun not a 30Cal. There is a huge difference between MM and Cal. As far as the original gun I believe, someone will correct this if I'm wrong, was a 20MM during intital testing of the aircraft? I believe there is a photo on this board somewhere of that A/C?

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

Thanks for the Welcome!

Hm... I thought it at one point had a gun bigger than a 30mm on the nose and that it was causing the aircraft to stall? But, I could've misinterpreted what was told to me... He might have said that it almost causes the aircraft to stall. It's been a very LONG time... That was over 17 years ago, or there abouts.

But, I have to say... out of all the aircraft that I've seen in the USAF, the A-10 has got to be the best ugliest plane I've ever seen! LOL

First welcome to the forums Swtdivalove. The 30mm GAU-8A was a <b>requirement</b> for the AX project and the winner had to be designed to carry this weapon. As M&M and fender have stated the 20mm Vulcan was used during part of the AX fly-off and testing because the 30mm Avenger was not ready.

The A-10, to my knowladge, has never had a 50cal installed for any reason what-so-ever. Also the A-10 has never carried "a larger gun" because I don't know what "larger gun" the A-10, or any other attack aircraft besides the AC-130, it could carry. The GAU-8A 30mm Avenger cannon is the largest internal gun ever carried on a fighter/attack (tactical) aircraft.

Ugly But Well Hung

Way back years ago (1979? i think) The gun put out a lot more smoke and gas when fired on the high rate. Back then we had two rates of fire. All this somoke and gas had caused a few jets to have the engines flame out and stall. A TCTO was done to have the engine igniters kick in when the trigger was depressed To try and restart the engines if they were choked out when the gun fired. I think the ammo propellent was also changed later

Thanks for the info, Guys!

I'll make the necessary corrections to one of my threads.

I may stop by and give you all a shout once in awhile!

In addition, you may recall the Aerojet ammo and the LAVP...

Carl,
You'er just shy of the mark. The stalling problem early on was caused by the gas released by the gun and choking out the engines, but that was when they were using Smokeless Powder in the ammo. Right around 77 or so, they switched to regular Black Powder for the ammo and found a marked improvement from the engines during firing.

Another "Fix" they'd tryed was a special muzzle break on the gun that was supposed to duct most of the gas and smoke below the nose. I've never heard wheather they were any good, other that I've never seen them used much.

"Slow is Fast - Fast is Slow"

_________________
Slow is Fast, Fast is Slow
Violence may not be the best option, but it IS an option

Ice welcome to WT. I will say this, if the propellant in the 30MM is black powder it sure doesn't look like any black powder I ever put in my smokepole. It looks like smokeless to me. Can you verify your info? Before you go off I am an old load toad myself. I also used to be a Hot Gun Super at MB and at Shaw, and worked nothing but the GAU-8/A and GFU-7 at Bentwaters so I have seen lots of the 30MM propellant.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

Hey Fender,
Granted, the propellent used, at lest when I worked it in the late 70's, sure didn't look like the 4-F powder I'd used in muzzle loading either. It was like small black cylinders about 1/16" long and half that in Diameter. But just like black powder, if you scooped a few grains into a pile and smacked it with a hammer, it'd go off and just about take the hammer out of your hand.

I don't really have any solid proof or written documentation as to what time of powder it was at the time, but it did react to impact just like black powder, and the amount of smoke was just like black powder as well. Other than that, I'm going off of what I was told at the time, and that's a bit too long ago for me to remember exactly where I got it from.

Thanks for the welcome. I've actually been lurking around here for several years, and Lord knows I've probably down loaded at least half of the pics from here. I'd only worked A-10s when I was at DM for about 3 years, after that, I'd retrained into CATM and was a weapons instructor for the rest of my 27 years. Just retired a couple of years ago, but I've always carried a warm place in my heart for the most beautiful, ugly bird in the world.

"Slow is Fast - Fast is Slow"

_________________
Slow is Fast, Fast is Slow
Violence may not be the best option, but it IS an option

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>But just like black powder, if you scooped a few grains into a pile and smacked it with a hammer, it'd go off and just about take the hammer out of your hand. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I never tried that and for some reason I don't think I will either. LOL

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

<font face='Arial'>The prototype A-10 had the 20mm installed because the 30mm GAU-8A wasn't ready. The "muzzle brake" is really a gun gas deflector to reduce engine injestion of the gases. There were also problems with secondary ignition of the gun gasses that produced a fireball in front of the nose. Changing the chemistry of the propellant solved the nose banging and the flameouts. I don't recall the exact additive, but I think it was 5% potassium nitrate. I can check into it and get back to you if you're interested in continuing the discussion.

I'm in the beginning stages of creating a website to post unpublished photo's of the A-10 from prototype to current. I just got a new scanner for the 8 X 10's but will need something else for the slides. I've also got a collection of A-10, F-105 and T-46 materials that were Fairchild-Republic giveaways. Some nice display models, ties, tie tacks, tape measures, stickers, documentation, and 35 years of historical references. Who's better to tell the A-10 story than the guy who wrote the AX requirements in the Pentagon then went to work at Farmingdale NY to build the aircraft? </font id='Arial'>

Maybe we have found Mr A-10...

Coach

Mister A-10, were you at Oshkosh this year? You sound like the guy i talked to in front of the B.C. jet in Aeroshell square.

Just thought I'd poke into this thread. The engine igniters were mentioned but not the slats. The slats also deploy during gun fire to help the engines ingest more air.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The engine igniters were mentioned but not the slats. The slats also deploy during gun fire to help the engines ingest more air. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Are you sure? Look at the thread that has the gun firing and you will see the slats are not deployed. Also I never seen them deploy during the many gun checks I was involved with.

http://forum.a-10.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9310

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

The slats do not deploy when firing the gun. The ignitors do fire when the slats deploy at high AoA.

Coach

My Bad I guess, thought they did. I'll check the TS

"I'll check the TS" I'd check the 2-1-1 its got a better theory of operation description;.

<img src="http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/457/bgnrjsiiw81q1gc.jpg" border=0>

Gravity....its not just a good idea, its the law.

Edited by - m&m on Dec 23 2005 2:58 PM

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<font face='Arial'>

I'm in the beginning stages of creating a website to post unpublished photo's of the A-10 from prototype to current. I just got a new scanner for the 8 X 10's but will need something else for the slides. I've also got a collection of A-10, F-105 and T-46 materials that were Fairchild-Republic giveaways. Some nice display models, ties, tie tacks, tape measures, stickers, documentation, and 35 years of historical references. Who's better to tell the A-10 story than the guy who wrote the AX requirements in the Pentagon then went to work at Farmingdale NY to build the aircraft? </font id='Arial'>


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Welcome aboard MR. A-10, looking forward to seeing your website when finished.

Ugly But Well Hung