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 Post subject: Better Funding?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2007, 00:06 
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Hog Crewdog

Joined: 06 Oct 2002, 19:55
Posts: 695
Location: Las Vegas
I have heard rumors at work this week that Gen. Murray has juggled around a lot of funding and that the A-10 is now 6th on the priority list, following directly behind the Raptor. I looked into it briefly today, and can't find any sort of solid report. Does anyone else know anything about this? And if it is true, what it will mean for the A-10?

--Raven


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2007, 05:33 
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Ex-Crewdog
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002, 19:39
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Location: Region 10
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Whoa! He lives!

I haven't seen anything on it but I'll keep my eyes open.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2007, 13:27 
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Joined: 17 Jun 2002, 10:29
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How's it goin', Raven? Long time no post!! :wink: :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2007, 20:51 
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WT Game Warden
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Raven, nice to see you back. \"Funding\" is a broad term, without knowing the \"color\" of money you're talking about there is no way to predict how it would affect the Hawgs future.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2007, 22:38 
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Hog Crewdog

Joined: 06 Oct 2002, 19:55
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Yup....I am alive, and finally getting stable again. [bow] Good to be back...

Dice, I was hoping maybe someone around here knew that information. The best I know...and it is all word of mouth...is that it came out of a meeting between CSAF and ACC/CC. Maybe someone will be able to come up with more info and fill us all in.

--Raven


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2007, 23:11 
Hey bro, how you been fella?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2007, 18:22 
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Warthog VFW
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Joined: 27 Jan 2002, 14:02
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Hey Raven Good to See You again.

Goose


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2007, 20:12 
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Hog Driver

Joined: 27 Oct 2002, 00:46
Posts: 952
Location: NAS Norfolk VA
Who is Gen Murray?

Coach


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2007, 00:31 
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Joined: 02 Aug 2002, 14:24
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If the A-10 is 6th, and Raptor 5th, what are the top four, and what order?

JSF, KC-need-it-yesterday... what else?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2007, 09:34 
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Hog Crewdog

Joined: 06 Oct 2002, 19:55
Posts: 695
Location: Las Vegas
Coach,
Thanks for catching my brainfart! I meant Gen. Moseley...somehow got my lines crossed between CSAF and the former CMSAF.

Horrido,
Wish I knew...that's why I have been hoping to find some solid information on it all. I would guess the UCAV program, new bomber program, and maybe some sort of munitions program. I am not sure, but they may be trying to field a new gunship as well...heard rumors a few years back that they were looking into a possible AC-17.

All,
Feel free to email me or find me on Y! IM to catch up sometime...

--Raven


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2007, 12:26 
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Warthog VFW
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Joined: 27 Jan 2002, 14:02
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I just dont see a C-17 being made into a AC-17,too few now of the C-17 group,plus the AC-130 is a great platform as it is.

If they want to try something like that Buy a Japaneses \"C-17\" version they have been flying for almost 20+ years and tear-it up I think they called it a C-1 .
Not as big or wide, but that would give them a \"Cheap R&D\" platform.
But the AC-130 is like the BUFF, it just keeps going and going.

Goose

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2007, 13:53 
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Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 06:52
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This is the only thing I've seen on supplemental budget requests;

Quote:
Additionally, the service ranks A-10 aircraft upgrades as its third most-needed initiative that was excluded from the FY-07 plan. The A-10 upgrades, which carry an $83.4 million price tag, include precision engagement system modifications, new radio systems and the installation of infrared countermeasures. Collectively, the upgrades would “increase lethality by 25 percent and enhance survivability against man-portable threats,” states the document.


The full article is available at:


http://integrator.hanscom.af.mil/2006/March/03022006/03022006-21.htm

Given the relatively modest price tag, it has a chance of getting funded..IMHO. An older version of the IR system they're looking to install has been tried before (Hawg 166 may remember it) and it didn't work very well, too big and the processor time was too slow, though there's been improvements to that system since then.

Now, having said that, I'll bet if we listen closely we'll be able to hear Coach pounding his desk and screaming \"What about wings?\"..and probably a few others wondering about engines.

OC


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2007, 21:28 
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Ex-Crewdog
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002, 19:39
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Location: Region 10
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Horrido wrote:
If the A-10 is 6th, and Raptor 5th, what are the top four, and what order?

JSF, KC-need-it-yesterday... what else?


Damn, I just saw this the other day, I'll see what I can find and edit this post with the info.

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Put on your tinfoil hats, the black choppers are coming, and I'm calling them in.
Former DCC OA-10A T/N 80-278


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2007, 23:15 
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Hog Crewdog

Joined: 06 Oct 2002, 19:55
Posts: 695
Location: Las Vegas
OC,
All I have found on engine upgrades has been on globalsecurity.org, which isn't always the best of sources, especially since the page title for their TF34 page reads \"F108/CFM56 Engine.\"

Quote:
During FY04, the current Secretary of the Air Force and the Chief of Staff for the Air Force (SECAF/CSAF) requested the USAF address this need. The most effective solution is a kit upgrade to current engine. The upgraded engine must 1) still fit in current nacelle, 2) not require major structural mods, 3) produce sufficient additional thrust to address identified deficiencies, and 4) be funded from within A-10 program in accordance with (IAW) SECAF/CSAF direction. To meet cost and schedule constraints, the A-10 Engine Upgrade must be based on mature technology. The kit approach offers best value, yet meets A-10 and warfighter needs and provides the fastest delivery of the propulsion upgrade at a significantly lower risk. This modification approach saves three to four (3-4) years over development.

In 2005 the United States Air Force (USAF) sought interested sources regarding a requirement for a TF34 propulsion performance upgrade for the A-10 weapon system. The sponsoring activity is Aeronautical Systems Center, Agile Combat Support Wing, Propulsion Squadron, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, OH. There is a proposed FY06 target year to begin a three (3) year Systems Design and Demonstration (SDD) effort ($160M budget). The modification kit purchases must begin with adequate leadtime to support kit installations by early FY09, which allows synchronization with planned TF34-100A overhaul schedule. Acquisition planning factors include the following assumptions: 1) The acquisition effort begins at Milestone B, 2) 356 A-10s will be modified, 3) in addition, 68 spare engines will be modified. Key A-10 engine upgrade attributes include: air to air refueling at higher altitudes, reduced susceptibility to FOD, maintaining existing TF34 reliability, operating above the threat with a 500 FPM rate of climb on a standard day at 20,000 feet, decreasing fuel flow, and reducing transit time.

In 2006, the A-10 Propulsion Upgrade Program entered the system design and demonstration phase. This program upgrades the A-10’s current TF34-100A engines to provide approximately 30% more thrust. This will help overcome some limitations that the A-10 faces when operating from expeditionary airfields at high field elevations and temperatures. It will also improve the A-10 performance at medium altitudes and increase its weapon load, thus improving survivability and more fully leveraging the capabilities of the Precision Engagement modification and ATPs.

As of 2006 the flat-rated TF34-GE-101 doubles the hot day thrust output over current engines, eliminating take-off gross weight limitations that preclude today's A-10 from delivering its most powerful mission punch. Other -101 performance advantages include: A significant reduction in takeoff distances during hot day conditions. Improved high altitude performance. 30% more acceleration capability and a 2X turn rate for improved maneuverability. An approximate 3X time-to-climb improvement at full combat weight. CONUS to European deployment in one-third the time - without tying up tanker assets and valuable manpower. A positive \"single engine rate of climb\" safety margin at maximum gross takeoff weight.

By leveraging a $400-million GE investment for commercial engine development and a solid production base, the TF34-GE-101 can be procured on an affordable Commercial Off-The-Shelf (COTS) basis. Maintenance costs (including spares, labor and overhaul) are projected to be less than one-fourth the cost of maintaining current engines. Coupled with a lower maximum thrust rating for robust, reliable operation, significant savings can be realized over the remaining life of the A-10 fleet. A true force multiplier, the A-10 with TF34-GE-101 engines can offload the F-16 Block 40/50 aircraft from close-air support missions and free these valuable assets to perform other critical tasks.


The article also has some history on the TF34, and a table of upgrade expectations, if anyone is interetsed. It can be found here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... s/tf34.htm

Weasel,
Let me know what you find...


--Raven


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2007, 21:48 
A thread we had on the engine upgrades several months ago:

http://www.a-10.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=11009


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