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| A-10 Shortcomings? https://warthogterritory.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5537 |
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| Author: | Jows [ 09 Feb 2004, 20:06 ] |
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For my senior Aerospace Design class, my group is designing a replacement for the A-10. What are some of the A-10's shortcomings? I figured the number of pilots on these forums would be a good source of information. Thanks for your time. |
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| Author: | koobster [ 09 Feb 2004, 20:40 ] |
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lets see triple redondancy, titanium bathtub, 30 mm gun(maybe there should be two),bypass engines that can chew up flak and spit it out. Can fly with a five foot hole and half the verticale stab gone, not to mention fly back home with half the tail shoot off. Nope can't think of any. Why don't ya just make brand new ones that look and work just the same? get muddy |
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| Author: | boomer [ 09 Feb 2004, 23:24 ] |
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slow transit speed and lack of thrust, even with that it is the most perfect mission/plane combo ever with the possible exception of the DC-3. We are living in the time of a legend folks, like the Spitfire and the P-51 and the Sabre-Jet! Except THOSE planes had legitimate rivals, the Hawg just stands alone in it's field. "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel ! <img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0> |
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| Author: | TinyGiant [ 10 Feb 2004, 05:23 ] |
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If you're looking at it from an aero engineering standpoint, do some research on how to remove airflow disruption to the engines at high AOA. That should take up some of your time. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> |
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| Author: | M21 Sniper [ 10 Feb 2004, 09:36 ] |
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From what i'm told the A-10 could use a less visibility restricted dash/HUD. Having sat in a few...i can see why. The A-10 would be hard to replace. <img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0> |
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| Author: | prkiii [ 10 Feb 2004, 09:54 ] |
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The A-10 doesn't need to be replaced...it needs to be updated...say like the C-130J (not saying the J is a great ACFT). New models updated with modern avionics, new (more powerful) engines, stuff like that...but we'll <b>NEVER</b> see anything like that... Brought to you by your friendly neighborhood moderator.....<img src=newicons/icon_hog.gif border=0 align=middle> If you can't go fast...go Ugly |
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| Author: | MrMudd [ 10 Feb 2004, 09:59 ] |
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> From what i'm told the A-10 could use a less visibility restricted dash/HUD. Having sat in a few...i can see why. The A-10 would be hard to replace. <img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0> <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> Snipe, there is a switch to raise the seat (aces2) and a lever to adjust pedals to your likeing. You can sit in the bubble or hide in the Tub. Its up to you After a period of time, when rolling in to a target or any other eyeball manuevering. that Hud,avionics,frames, etc jsut kinda dissapear. "The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader Edited by - mrmudd on Feb 10 2004 09:00 AM |
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| Author: | boomer [ 10 Feb 2004, 10:27 ] |
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C-130J, that has to be one of the more mind boggling cluster _ucks around, seemed like a simple idea/update at the time 
"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel ! <img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0> |
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| Author: | prkiii [ 10 Feb 2004, 10:41 ] |
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> C-130J, that has to be one of the more mind boggling cluster _ucks around, seemed like a simple idea/update at the time
"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel ! <img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0> <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> exactly why I said I wasn't saying it was a great ACFT...we're doing work on them now at depot...and the guys(and a few gals) hate working on them... Brought to you by your friendly neighborhood moderator.....<img src=newicons/icon_hog.gif border=0 align=middle> If you can't go fast...go Ugly |
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| Author: | JMF422nd [ 10 Feb 2004, 13:25 ] |
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Replace the A-10? Restart the manufacturing of them and just update the Avionics to reflect suite II or III and your set. If you REALLY want to dig deep with improment ideas, look at the engine. More thrust and better airflow at high AOA (as was already stated). Othere than that nothing could replace it. The question people should be asking is how ANY aircraft could even think of replacing the A-10 when it enventually goes away? |
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| Author: | Jows [ 10 Feb 2004, 17:50 ] |
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Thanks a lot for your insights guys. Here's what we're looking at so far for mission requirements: We want to have a top cruise speed of around 600-700 MPH with a sprint of around Mach 1.5. We want to keep the gun, but reduce bombs/missle payload from 16000 lbs to around 10000. Range and loiter time will be about the same. Our biggest concern was the speed issue, so that was the main point we wanted to address. We didn't know about the airflow problem at high AOA however. Big thanks to you guys for that info. We'll definately be looking at that issue in our design process. If y'all want, I can keep you guys updated on our design throughout the semester. |
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| Author: | Funk-O-Potomous [ 10 Feb 2004, 19:02 ] |
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Just out of curiousity, are you talking about a high school class or college? |
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| Author: | Jows [ 10 Feb 2004, 19:18 ] |
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Never heard anything about Aerospace Design courses at any high school I've ever heard of 
Yes, this is a college course. |
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| Author: | Hawg166 [ 10 Feb 2004, 19:58 ] |
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I used to design airplanes all the time in high school classes. I would draw them on my book covers and on the bathroom walls. I did this real cool drawing of the guitar on Boston's first album, you know the space ship guitar. I missed my calling. By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson |
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| Author: | D.B. [ 10 Feb 2004, 20:34 ] |
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"We want to have a top cruise speed of around 600-700 MPH with a sprint of around Mach 1.5. We want to keep the gun, but reduce bombs/missle payload from 16000 lbs to around 10000. Range and loiter time will be about the same." Sounds kinda like and F-16. And we know how well they work in CAS!! Cheers db Being responsible means sometimes pissing people off. Gen Colin Powell ret |
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| Author: | M21 Sniper [ 10 Feb 2004, 20:38 ] |
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The whole point of the A-10 is that it's slow, and that it's slow with a ridiculous loiter time. Another pointy nose jet won't get the job done the same. It's been tried already, many times. <img src="http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sigs/snipersig.jpg " border=0> |
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| Author: | koobster [ 11 Feb 2004, 04:47 ] |
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Reduce the pay load??????? thats one of the main fetures of the a-10. get muddy |
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| Author: | Warthog30 [ 11 Feb 2004, 07:21 ] |
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"If you're looking at it from an aero engineering standpoint, do some research on how to remove airflow disruption to the engines at high AOA. That should take up some of your time." The easiest fix ever was to fire the igniters at high AOA. All maneuverable a/c should incorporate that fix, it would prevent a lot of compressor stalls. As far as the C-130J goes, I worked on it back in my nonrated days and it was a cluster. It was pretty bad for a few years. I now have a buddy who is initial Active Duty IP cadre at LRAFB and he says that he loves it. I guess many of the kinks have been worked out by the ANG. ATTACK!!!!!!! |
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| Author: | boomer [ 11 Feb 2004, 07:52 ] |
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I hope so because the performance numbers are fantastic even compared with it's previous versions. "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel ! <img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0> |
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| Author: | Hawg166 [ 11 Feb 2004, 13:22 ] |
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Uh call me stupid but I thought that a compressor stall at high AOA was because there was disrupted airflow to the inlet, thus the pressure in the HPT drops to low. Warthog30, I think you are confusing the compressor stalls that occured because of gun gas ingestion. The fix to this was indeed to have the ignitors fire during the time the trigger is pulled. For high AOA maneuvers the A10 has fueselage fences, wing fences and slats that channel the air over the top of the wing in order to keep airflowing to the engines. <i>"the slats function automatically to improve high AOA air flow to the engines. The Emergency Stall Prevention System (ESPS) detects conditions that will lead to engine stall. Stall is determined in ESPS as a function of AOA and Mach. The AOA is measured by a lift transducer mounted on the lower left wing leading edge. Mach is measured internally in the ESPS through the pitot static system. At a predertimed AOA and Mach, the slats extend." </i> By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson |
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| Author: | Coach [ 11 Feb 2004, 19:55 ] |
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You stopped reading too soon, Hawg. The ESPS also makes the igniters fire during chopped tone manuevering plus one second. Doesn't do jack, we still cook engines too often because when was the last time anyone calibrated the AoA tab and the alpha-mach computer? Unless you have Suite-2, your AoA vane is hidden behind a bunch of airscoops for the gun bay. Ever wonder why we ALWAYS fly at max range AoA, no matter what speed you're at between 180 and 350? When was the last time the whole ESPS was checked for end to end operation within parameters? Every jet is different, the stall warning tone system is a joke. Coach |
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| Author: | HogDog [ 12 Feb 2004, 00:39 ] |
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Ummmm....HELLO??? Aren't you guys forgetting the most obvious(and probably the only REAL)shortcomings of the Hog?????? Hey Jows-- How about designin one with a built-in 6-pack cooler and a microwave for those long T.O.T. loiter times??? Or maybe a cd player so we could show those Iron Eagle boys in the lawn darts how it's REALLY done!!!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> High On The Hog |
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| Author: | Hogmender [ 12 Feb 2004, 00:58 ] |
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Hey Hogdog, I thought everyone knew that was a standard shortcoming <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle> Go Ugly Early ! No body's ugly after 2:00 A.M. |
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| Author: | HogDog [ 12 Feb 2004, 01:32 ] |
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Sure, WE all know it, but you know those college kids.....and I doubt that those things would be in the curriculum!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> High On The Hog |
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| Author: | Hawg166 [ 12 Feb 2004, 05:27 ] |
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Sorry Coach didnt see the choptone part in the Dash-1, or I would have put it in. By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson |
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