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I am sure you will all forgive me for posting this, but it had to be done...anyone know Gary Fullington? I would like to buy him a beer!

Cheers! M2

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/M2_patches/McSally.bmp" border=0>

<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly But Well Hung

I wonder what will happen the next time she is the Shoppette and tries to correct an airman on appearance? Or stands up in front of her squadron and tries to explain how important it is to follow the checklist, AFI's and T.O.s in our business. Or one of her pilots is standing in front of her for flying too low or where they weren't supposed to be. "Yes, Airman/Sgt/Lt/Capt, those rules are there for a reason, the TR's are written in blood, that's why we do business the way we do." "But Ma'am, why did you choose to flagrantly violate an AFI by wearing a male flightcap everyday to work?" "You never mind that, I'm busy demonstrating exceptional moral courage, now get back to work."

I just don't get it.

Coach

<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle> You know how it is; sometimes those nasty little male hormones just have their way with her!

"Live every day like it's the last, 'cause one day you're gonna be right!" Ray Charles (6/10/04 was the day)

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson

So, being strictly a tech-head with no concept of military dress-codes, I have two questions...

What's the difference between men's and women's caps?...

and...

Does this set a precedenct for allowing cross-dressers? <img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

Livin' life in the fast lane and just passed a blur reading "BRIDGE OUT!"

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/M2_patches/McSally.bmp" border=0>

Look closely at that picture....

THAT'S A MAN, BABY!

ATTACK!

I can't F'ING STAND IT when women act above the rules in the military.

Grrrrrr.

Go home and cook me a turkey pot pie lady.

"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum...and i'm all out of bubblegum".

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Go home and cook me a turkey pot pie lady.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

She's no lady my friend.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

I got news, she's no soldier either.

You pulled a stunt like this in the army and it would be the same as kicking a hornet's nest and dumping the contents down your pants.

I can't even imagine a Marine contemplating a stunt like this.



"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum...and i'm all out of bubblegum".

MAYBE THINGS HAVE CHANGED, BUT ALL ARE FEMALE FLIGHT CREW MEMBERS,PILOTS,ETC... WORE MALE FLIGHT CAPS.
DID THEY CHANGE AFR 35-10?

JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THE HORSE IS IN FRONT

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

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I can't F'ING STAND IT when women act above the rules in the military.

Grrrrrr.

Go home and cook me a turkey pot pie lady.

"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum...and i'm all out of bubblegum".
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

If you are hungry...go home and cook it yourself...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
MAYBE THINGS HAVE CHANGED, BUT ALL ARE FEMALE FLIGHT CREW MEMBERS,PILOTS,ETC... WORE MALE FLIGHT CAPS.
DID THEY CHANGE AFR 35-10?

JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THE HORSE IS IN FRONT

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

AFR 35-10 doesn't exist anymore...its AFI something or other, can't remember anymore...

<img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/70th.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/Mav_shot.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/25.jpg" border=0>

_________________

AFI USE TO STAND FOR "AIRFORCE INTEL" .
I'M OLD PRKIII.
I'D BE WILLING TO BET THAT THE RULE IS OVERTURNED BY THE CHIEF OF STAFF

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

Edited by - sgtgoose1 on Aug 21 2004 7:03 PM

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>AFR 35-10 doesn't exist anymore...its AFI something or other, can't remember anymore... <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Its now AFI 36-2903 Dress and Appearance

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I can't F'ING STAND IT when women act above the rules in the military.

Grrrrrr.

Go home and cook me a turkey pot pie lady.

"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum...and i'm all out of bubblegum".
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

If you are hungry...go home and cook it yourself...


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

See that is why Fast food will never go out of buisness.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>See that is why Fast food will never go out of buisness. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

ROFLMAO

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If you are hungry...go home and cook it yourself... <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> You go girl!

"Some pup"
Nickname by Fenderstrat72

_________________
Evil is evil, no matter how small.

Lt Col McSally is wrong, #2 omission is not permission, female wear female items.

It is common sense and she forgets about military image as well. I guarantee she is going down a path she doesn't need too.

She cant where mens messdress, or a mens service coat or a men's campaign hat, they were the bush hats, she can't wear a mens long sleeve, it isnt just pick and choose what she wants to wear or a any other female wants to wear, there is a standard for a reason.

If she wears a mens flight cap, she is going to get told to take it off, if shes says where in the reg does it say that, then that person is going to ask, Are you a male?

She says "No."

Then take off the mens flight cap

It is labeled female then they must wear it, she is being ignorant for political purposes.

Her gender is what makes it "illegal"


Brown Eyes I suggest you and LtCol McSally need to speak to the Uniform board for more clarifaction.


"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Brown Eyes I suggest you and LtCol McSally need to speak to the Uniform board for more clarifaction.
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Mr. Mudd, I wasn't saying she was right in doing that. I was just saying that I didn't find anything to answer the questions posted in regards to the 36-2903.

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That would be a false statement as you clearly stated previously...

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So glad that women's sizes will be offered on the new uniform. But as far as the hat goes, who cares...
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So what you said was " I don't Care or more to the effect "Who Cares" It is not stated in the AFI36-2903.

Apparently Brown Eyes the Airforce Does care and in fact So did General Jumper when He reprimanded LtCol McSally and strictly ordered her to not do it again.



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I looked it up in the 36-2903 and there is nothing that states whether or not a female flight crew member can wear a men's flight cap vs. a women's. I will check tomorrow to see if there is any additional supplementation regarding this issue. I wish my uniform came in women's sizes instead of unisex because then it wouldn't look like i'm wearing my boyfriends uniform. So glad that women's sizes will be offered on the new uniform. But as far as the hat goes, who cares...
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All AFPC Messeges For dress and Appearance
http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/dress/A ... 20New.html

Findings:
http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/dress/A ... ESULTS.doc

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
R 301446Z JUN 04

FROM: HQ USAF WASHINGTON DC//DP//
TO: AIG 8106//DP/DPP/DPM//
AIG 9360//CCC//
ANGRC ANDREWS AFB MD//MPPUR//
HQ AFRC ROBINS AFB GA//DP/DPM/DPP/CCC// ALMAJCOM-FOA//CC/DP/DPM/CCC// ALL-TAGS//PA// AFCTO PHILADELPHIA PA//311 HSW YACL// HQ AAFES DALLAS TX//SD-U// HQ AU MAXWELL AFB AL//CC/DP// AIG 8066//EPCEDI// HQ AFPC RANDOLPH AFB TX//DPFSM// ALMAJCOM//DP/DPP/CCC// AIG 10845//CC/DP// AIG 10847//DP/DPP/FM/PA// AIG 12846//CC/DP/DPP/FM/PA//
INFO: SAF//PA/FMB/IG//
HQ USAF/XO/IL/SG/CCC/ILSP//


SUBJ: 96TH AIR FORCE UNIFORM BOARD RESULTS

1. THE CSAF HAS RENDERED THE FOLLOWING DECISIONS CONCERNING THE 96TH AF UNIFORM BOARD THAT MET ON 18 – 19 JUNE 2003. VOTING MEMBERS INCLUDED REPRESENTATIVES FROM DESIGNATED AIR STAFF DIRECTORATES, EACH MAJOR COMMAND, AF RESERVE, NATIONAL GUARD AND THE CHIEF MASTER SERGEANT OF THE AIR FORCE. NON-VOTING MEMBERS INCLUDED REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE ARMY AND AF EXCHANGE SERVICES (AAFES), AF CLOTHING OFFICE AND DEFENSE SUPPLY CENTER PHILADELPHIA (DSCP).


B. DISAPPROVALS

43. ELIMINATE FEMALE FLIGHT CAP AND AUTHORIZE FEMALES TO WEAR MALE FLIGHT CAP

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That is Why the Uniform Board conveines to deal with these little issues that crops up. Ofton refered to as a "Supplemental regulatory order"

So lets repost this little tidbit

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Letter

Hats off to McSally?

Three cheers for Lt. Col. Martha McSally for achieving another strategic victory in her trademark struggle against oppressive military dress requirements.

Contrary to the overtly sexist and anachronistically gender-specific guidelines of AFI 36-2903, Lt. Col. McSally courageously wore a men’s flight cap during her change-of-command ceremony. This act demonstrated exceptional moral courage in light of the fact that a recent Air Force Uniform Board specifically disapproved authorization of women to wear the male flight cap.

This is a triumphant launch to your career as a commander, Col. McSally. Give ’em hell!

Maj. Gary Fullington (ret.)

Las Vegas

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"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

BER77

It is the same reason I can't grow my hair down to my ass and show up to work with it in a bun, nor can I wear earrings or make-up. The reg clearly stipulates gender-specific items, and there are male and female flight caps. McSally is wearing the wrong cap, clear and simple, and as a commander <b>SHE</b> should be the one that cares about compliance with regulations. Coach's reply captures it best.

M2

"If you are hungry...go home and cook it yourself..."

I guess our brown eyed raven has never seen the breakfast club, lol.

"Shut up bitch! Cook me turkey pot pie!"
-Bender(Judd Nelson) impersonating his abusive father.

"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum...and i'm all out of bubblegum".

THERE'S 2 ISSUES HERE,

1. THE LT.COL'S PAST AND THE CLOUDY AREA OVER HER TIME IN THE USAF.

JUST BY HER 60 MINS INTERVIEW AND NEWS ARTICLES SHE'S IN ARE PUTTING BAD LIGHT ON ALOT OF FEMALE USAF MEMBERS WHO PLAY BY THE RULES.
SOME OF YOU FOLKS HAVE SERVED WITH HER AND THATS WHAT I HAVE TO GO BY.

I THINK EVERYONE HERE(MEN AND WOMEN) ARGEE THAT SHE'S MAKING A POLITICAL STATEMENT.

2. AFI 36-2903.
I SEE WHAT BER WAS DOING,SOME MAJCOMS OR OTHER COMMANDS PUT OUT SUPPLEMENTS TO REGULATIONS IN GREY AREAS.
THEY IN FACT LET MEMBERS WEAR NON GENDER ITEMS.
CASE IN POINT,FLIGHT CAPS. FEMALE FLIGHT CAPS IF I REMEMBER DIDNT APPEAR UNTIL LATE 80'S,THE DUCK HUNTER HAT WAS AROUND 83-85 TIME FRAME.
THEY ALLOWED FLIGHTS CAPS FOR BOTH SEXES. SO IN FACT ALOT OF FEMALE OLD SCHOOL WORE THE MENS CAP. NOW WITH THE FEMALE CAPS I KNEW TRAVIS HAD ISSUED A NOTICE THAT THEY COULD STILL WEAR MENS FLIGHT CAPS.

UNIFORMS, FATIGUES OR BDU'S
FATIGUES WHERE MALE AND FEMALE BUT ,LETS FACE IT THEY DIDNT WORK FOR
ALL DUE TO CERTAIN BODY BUILDS THE COMMANDERS WOULD "ENCOURGE THE FEMALE TO WEAR MALE FATIGUES".
PLUS IF YOU HAD A CHEMICAL ATTACK AND WENT TO THE APPLE OCHARD YOU COULDNT STOCK MALE/FEMALE FATIGUES THEY STOCK MALE ONLY.
SO IF BER CAN FIND A REG OR SUPPLEMENT TO THE ITEM THEN THE LTC DID NOT BREAK A RULE BUT IF NOT OTHER WISED POSTED THE MAIN REG IS LAW.

IF THE CHIEF OF STAFF JUMPS YOU, I WOULDNT CROSS HIM UNLESS I WAS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED.
THEN MY QUESTION WOULD BE,"HOW DID SHE GET A COMMANDERS SLOT"?

THIS IS A HOT TOPIC,AND IT HAS BEEN FOR YEARS OVER UNIFORMS

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

Edited by - sgtgoose1 on Aug 23 2004 11:03 AM

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I wonder what will happen the next time she is the Shoppette and tries to correct an airman on appearance? Or stands up in front of her squadron and tries to explain how important it is to follow the checklist, AFI's and T.O.s in our business. Or one of her pilots is standing in front of her for flying too low or where they weren't supposed to be. "Yes, Airman/Sgt/Lt/Capt, those rules are there for a reason, the TR's are written in blood, that's why we do business the way we do." "But Ma'am, why did you choose to flagrantly violate an AFI by wearing a male flightcap everyday to work?" "You never mind that, I'm busy demonstrating exceptional moral courage, now get back to work."

I just don't get it.

Coach


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Agree, Coach. This would be like LTC Bud Holland (the B-52 stan/eval guy that wrecked at Fairchild) busting on his guys for flight discipline violations!

Seems like it's high time to sue the DoD again for more of their facist uniform rules they're imposing on women.

I think I'm gonna go out and get one of those female caps and make my statement that I don't want my hair messed up. Will I get cannonized for doing something as stupid, irreverant, and blatantly against the afi as that. Perhaps I'll put a nice Generals star on it because I like the way it looks. My hat now is so plain I think it needs a little spicing up. It'll look just darling.
What a tool.

Smitty

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
But as far as the hat goes, who cares...
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Would your boyfriend still be your boyfriend if he suddenly decided to start wearing a female flight cap?

ATTACK!