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They're on to us.....

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Ugly But Well Hung

Intresting story Dice-Man. I read it several times.
Mine questions are: "what is the nearest airbase there, and wich planes/wings/squadrons are stationed there?(I see the answer in the part Pittsburgh Pennsylvania)And why the eyewitnesses now come with their stories?". With that answers of the questions is it simple if the story can be true or complete false.

Salute
Dutchy


Termites do it in the dark!
(47FS Barksdale afb)

_________________
73-1664

These 9/11 conspiracy theories are probably some of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

"The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other." - Ronald Reagan

So here is my humble opinion. While I severely doubt an A-10 had any involvement, I have little doubt myself that that flight was indeed shot down by our forces. I know, I know conspiracy theories abound. But this is what I specifically remember about that day. I had to go to work shortly after the planes hit the towers. But at work we had the radio on and were glued to it. The media was reporting that that flight was not on it's original course and that F-15s had been scrambled and were escorting the plane, instructing the plane where to land, and not to deviate from that course under any circumstances. Shortly after that, the airliner "mysteriously crashed into a field". Now if you put the scenario and the facts together, it would make sense that it was indeed shot down. And while I do not condone our military turning on our own countrymen(and I don't mean the pilots, the decision was made much higher up than that obviously), I too, confronted with the situation, would have probably ordered that very thing. I'm sure we gave the airliner as much chance as could be afforded to comply with OUR demands, simply stay the course and land the plane. While tragic, considering where the previous 3 aircraft just crashed, and that you have the chance to keep the 4th from hitting a very populated target, (which is where it headed) the needs of the many do indeed outweigh the needs of the few. Do you sacrifice the people on board who, in all reality, have a 99% chance of not living to get off that plane anyway, or let it crash into a more populated area, killing not only those on board, but many hundred/thousands more? I don't think it was a coincidence that it went down in unpopluated countryside. In fact, what are the chances that if the terrorist really did just lose control, that it would have crashed into a remote area? I say not likely. And, that was probably the last chance to down it before getting into populated areas. I do feel bad for the pilot(s) who were confronted with that decision, whether to follow that order or not. But we do not know what they were told. I'm sure, however, true or not, it was something that made them view that plane as a serious threat. Which it was. There is no doubt in my mind that plane was headed for a big target. And considering the accuracy of the previous 3, the 4th would have probably succeeded, save being "forced" out of the sky.
Now I am not a cold-hearted person by any means. I do feel bad for those people on board, and everbody involved(except the S.O.B.s that hijacked it, may they burn in hell) It was a tragic situation, which from time to time comes with the territory of a free country. Only by destroying freedom can we "guarantee " this does not happen again. And I am ok with living with the risk, if it means the freedoms come with it. And, as unfortunate as it is, had I been the one to make the call on whether or not to take that plane down, I have no doubt in my mind I would have said yes.
Call me what you will. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. May God bless those on board and their families.<img src=newicons/smiley_salute.gif border=0 align=middle>

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a GAU-8A at your side, kid...--Hawg Solo

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\"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a GAU-8/A at your side, kid.\"--Hawg Solo

That must've been one of them there special A-10's..ya know, with the afterburning TF-34's set up to catch a 500 knot airliner..and silver at that. I've read dumber things I guess, just don't remember where.

Old Chief

I remember watching Fox News and they said an airforce jet shot down the airliner in PA. They later changed the story.

I was thinking about this article again at home.
When an airforce pilot did really shot it down. Than is it matter of time (years and years later, just as Deep Throat of Watergate) that the American pilot tell his story. Your mind is gonna brake you in time when you shoot a plane with fellow innocent Americans.
Imagine yourself as the pilot that has to do this job. I think that you do it, but many years later you have to speak it out, even a profesional has feelings.

Salute
Dutchy

Termites do it in the dark!
(47FS Barksdale afb)

_________________
73-1664

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I remember watching Fox News and they said an airforce jet shot down the airliner in PA. They later changed the story.


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Allow me the hypothetical of United 93 having been shot down. The one question I do have to wonder about is, why wouldn't the US just admit that it <b>had</b> shot it down if it did? There wouldn't be anything to lose, justification-wise, and at least it could be said that we were able to stop one of the four aircraft that day. Why go with the "Let's Roll" story if, in fact, that wouldn't have been true (in my scenario). Would the public not have been able to digest/accept it? I'd have to think with the far overriding events of that day, UA 93 being shot down wouldn't be a shocker by any means, just another tragedy on a scale on-par with the other events of that day.

Comments?

I guess I differ a little in my opinion about that aspect of it. I don't think the gov't would ever admit to something like that in this day in age. There are soooooo many people out there just waiting to jump down the throat of the president that had they admitted to shooting it down, the press and all the bleeding hearts would've made a HUGE deal out of it. In fact, the route the press would've taken it I think might surprise you. So many would have said "oh, they might have lived if YOU let them!" They would be so blinded by anger/stupidity, they would not be able to see the necessity of it. Not to mention the families filing lawsuits or at least demanding compensation from the gov't, because, after all, YOU killed my father/mother/son/daughter. The terrorists didn't. (Not my point of view, but I'd bet a paycheck or 2 that there would be MANY who would say that, especially the media, who are just waiting to jump on ANYTHING to undermine America.)
By claiming what they did as the supposed story, the people on board become heroes, the terrorists are the only possible guilty party, and everyone goes home satisfied.
The same people who say we were wrong for overthrowing Saddam would just go crazy with a story of our own gov't purposely killing our own.

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a GAU-8A at your side, kid...--Hawg Solo

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\"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a GAU-8/A at your side, kid.\"--Hawg Solo

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>That must've been one of them there special A-10's..ya know, with the afterburning TF-34's set up to catch a 500 knot airliner..and silver at that. I've read dumber things I guess, just don't remember where. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
LOL! Right on Old Chief. Exactly what I was thinking.

"The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other." - Ronald Reagan

And TWA 800 was shot down by the US Navy too. Somebody stop me. I'm about to opine...I have been involved in post mortems of airframes, not in the real world, but in relatively closely controlled laboratory environments. When a foul up occurs and something catastrophic happens, a plethora of contradictory data will be available. Eyewitnesses will swear on Bibles that this or that is fact. Nevermind the pile of broken parts that contradicts what they say. It comes down to how much you trust the investigators to make the best sense out of the wreckage with logical reasoning. No matter who does the analysis, there will always be disagreement on which evidence to discount and which to emphasise. It quickly becomes political when personalities become involved. Careers could be made or broken if one theory prevails over another. Previous history between principal personalities poisons the atmosphere. It is axiomatic that if one persons theory is elimnated, he will cry "cover-up". As more and more theories (and claims to fame) are eliminated, there are more and more "cover-up" claims. Don't forget the possibility that one of the eyewitnesses's stories is in fact a cover-up of his own incompetence, or a fabrication to gain favor. The smartest analysts would be those who would avoid work like this. It brings nothing but pain and suffering. Therefore, they should be drafted into service. I would not give the job to someone who wanted it badly. It would be too suspicious. By the way, do you really think the Challanger Space Shuttle blew up because of a faulty "O" ring? How about believing a piece of styrofoam punched a hole in an inch thick reinforced carbon carbon leading edge of the Columbia? I'll bet there are dozens of competing theories. It's all a cover-up to keep the Bush family in power so they can reward Halliburton. I read it on the internet.

THE RAMPTOR ENGINEERING TEAM <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
"Who cares if it works? Does it look good on the ramp?"

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????

I herad a saying once that a detectives favorite kind of murder case is one with no witnesses. Even if wwll intentioned, they always give contradicting stories. Witnesses give what they saw, not always what happened. Liek Joe Friday says, "Just the facts, Ma'am."

"The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other." - Ronald Reagan

(And then, of course, there are those who don't believe the gov't would EVER do anything wrong in the name of their own interests...) <img src=newicons/anim_bs.gif border=0 align=middle>

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a GAU-8A at your side, kid...--Hawg Solo

_________________
\"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a GAU-8/A at your side, kid.\"--Hawg Solo

I read in a (Dutch) newspaper, that on 9-11 a movie about Flight 93 is coming on a American tv channel. People of United Airlines and families of the passengers/crew are working with it.

Salute
Dutchy

Termites do it in the dark!
(47FS Barksdale afb)

_________________
73-1664

Kind of on the same topic, one of the wackier members of our CAP Squadron here in North Louisiana was claiming that A-10s from Barksdale were put on alert to intercept an unidentified plane on 9/11. According to her, they hadn't had time to upload any ordinance to the aircraft so their orders were to ram the bogey.

Oh and then they found out it was Air Force One with President Bush on his way to Barksdale (which really did happen that day, I remember my dear sainted mother worrying her head off that her son was going to college right next to the terrorists' next biggest target).

Again, take it with a grain of salt.

I was at Barksdale during 9/11 Doing my TPS Schoolhouse Tour (visiting friends in the 47thFS) and at Tyndel the following week.

That never happaned. Sounds Like utter Fantesy. Everyone will talk large during events like this and their may be a little machismo on the flightline. But you need to get realistic. The A10 is not an interceptor. It is a Low Level in your Face Destroy the Armor Gladiator.

Now if 9/11 turned out to be a Bunch of Semi Trailers packing HE. Well I could then See Gunsips and Hawgs being Highway nd prking lot wreckers.

"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see their near and dear bathed in tears, to ride their horses and sleep on the white bellies of their wives and daughters."
-Genghis Khan

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\"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. \"

George S. Patton

OH yeah, definitely. I didn't believe her for a second (see "wacky" in the previous post) but I thought it was an odd story. She's been known to come up with other...."interesting"....stories in the past, so that was no suprise.

As far as the idea of land-borne attacks, I can hear the target briefing now... "The enemy is using 18-wheelers, look for large trucks with Johnny Chimpo painted on the side!!" (See Super Troopers for that one)

I hate to admit to this, but BC did have A-10's on alert after 9-11. We maintainers had to laugh about it in a way. One thing though, it really got to me, having aircraft in our own heartland on alert like they were.