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Let the arms race commence:

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/87/347/9915_tank.html

The 21st century has brought fifth generation weapons to the planet. Are we ready to meet the challenge?
This is not a fantasy or a Hollywood movie where space aliens take out their super-powerful guns and wipe entire cities and villages off the face of the earth without establishing direct contact with the poor aborigines. This pseudo-aesthetic horror has become our everyday reality.

Even in the early 1990s, when, during the Desert Storm operation, the Americans made attempts to test new military tactics and use new high-tech weapons, many analytical centers just shrugged their shoulders: they still considered the Kalashnikov gun to be superior to computers and laser-guided weapons. However, already during the US aggression against Yugoslavia, when the Americans used optically guidance missiles and bombs with carbonic threads to deactivate power lines without destroying the nuclear power plants, analysts realized that a new era of non-contact wars had begun. And this fact was proven by the Americans in Iraq once again when it took three weeks to dissolve Saddam's army of 400,000 soldiers in the Mesopotamian desert. The US's cold silicon chips and noiseless laser beams were fighting against Iraq's hot hearts and Kalashnikov guns. The 21st century has brought fifth generation weapons to the planet. Are we ready to meet the challenge?

When, in the 1980s, the Soviet military opened another large-scale construction site near the city of Nurek in the Soviet republic of Tadjikistan, US authorities became seriously alarmed and made a protest against the USSR. They thought our country had started construction of a military-purpose laser complex. Soviet diplomats had to reassure the scared Americans and explained that the complex was meant for optoelectronic surveillance, analogous to US's GBEODSS (Ground-Based Electro-Optical Deep Space Surveillance).

The creators of the new complex called it a "window." The complex could survey objects in space at a height of 40,000 kilometers, define their trajectories precisely and find out to what country the objects belonged and for what purpose they were meant.

This "window to space" was developed at a design bureau of a plant in Krasnogorks in the Moscow region under the direction of chief designer Chernov. First, an experimental model of the complex was built right on the premises of the enterprise. But when construction was started not far from the hydroelectric power station in Nurek, a civil war broke out in Tadjikistan. Specialists could recommence construction work only after 1996. In November 1999, the complex was finally put into operation.

In addition to surveillance over military objects, the complex can perform civilian service as well. It can survey not only objects of terrestrial, but also of extraterrestrial, origin, such as asteroids, comets, meteors, meteorites, etc.

In October 1984, the USA launched its Challenger shuttle for the 13th time. When the shuttle flew over Lake Balkhash (in Soviet territory at that time), it suddenly lost contact with the Earth, devices on board the shuttle were lost and the astronauts themselves felt ill. The Americans held a thorough investigation of the incident and learned that the crew and the space vessel had suffered from something arising from the USSR. An official protest followed. After that, American space objects never suffered such faults over Soviet territory.

Our prospective friends calmed down, but it was only in 1989 that a US delegation was shown a part of the laser complex meant for aiming at remote objects. The apparatus was called Terra-3, and it had been aimed at the space shuttle.

Development of a space gun started in the 1970s; Nobel Prize laureates Prokhorov and Basov and Academicians Khariton and Velikhov worked on the problem. The whole of the world was on the threshold of Star Wars at that time, and the Soviet complex was (and is still now) the most advanced example of such a thing at that time. The fact was proved by the "innocent trick" played when Soviet Marshall Dmitry Ustinov issued an order to direct a laser beam at the US space shuttle, which was flying at a height of 365 kilometers.

The Russian tank Black Eagle (object 640) can be seen at military exhibitions from a distance only; its shape is disguised under camouflage net. The tank is very powerful: it weighs 50 tons and the turbine engine is of 1,500 horse-powers. The Black Eagle is 80 centimeters lower than the new T-80 tank.

The tank's main 125-caliber gun can fire regular shells and guided anti-tank missiles. They are developed by skilled specialists in the Russian city of Tula and can break through armor 1,000 millimeters thick. This means that even the most powerful tank in the West, the Abrams, with front armor of 800 millimeters, won't stand up to Russia's Black Eagle.

The turret of the Russian tank resembles turrets of Western last-generation tanks in size and configuration. It is equipped with built-in dynamic protection covering a sector of 120 degrees, approximately. Dynamic protection units are installed in the front of the roof as well. There are 12 tube-guided arms on each side of the turret (which means the Black Eagle is equipped with a Drozd active protection system). Laser emission receivers are placed on the top of the turret, which shows that the tank may be equipped with a radio countermeasures system.

The tank has a combined sight with a built-in laser ranger that can operate in the daytime, as well as at night. The commander of the tank is provided with a thermal imaging surveillance device. It is not ruled out that information obtained by both devices can further appear on the displays of a commander or a gunner. The on-board information complex of the Black Eagle tank controls all the basic systems of the machine. It can also perform automated information exchange with other tanks and higher commanders. This is the first time that a Russian tank has been turned into a powerful analytical computerized center. The designers also focused on better safety for the tank crew. Tank ammunition was traditionally placed under the floor in a battle compartment; when it blew up or was hit with a missile, the whole of the crew was consequently killed. In the new tank, ammunition is transferred to the after-part of the turret and separated from the battle compartment with an armored partition. This measure makes the tank crew feel safer.

This smart machine, which aims not only at liquidation of enemies but also cares about the safety of its crew, was developed by Russian designers. What the Russian government has to do now is buy the machine for the army. It promises to do so regularly.

does it still go boom when struck by a depleated uranium 30 mm hog slug? If what is the point?

Maybe we'll find out. First I'm guessing they'll have to pass the rigorous testing by Chechan quality control.

"*&%^$#@. He went Lemming on me." "Are you going to die? <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>" "Never grab a Man's...I mean never leave a man behind!"---"Horrido & 'Tock's Debacle"

_________________

what good is a Russian tank that won't do a "Flying Frying Pan"?? put the ammo back under the turret!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

1. Don't look conspicuous; it draws fire.
2. Never draw fire; it irritates everyone around you.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

yeah, if they can afford to buid more than 1 the west will be in BIG trouble!! I suspect and LGB will still turn it inside out like all the rest.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Remember, its from Pravda. And Pravda in Russian means <i>truth</i>.



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>yeah, if they can afford to buid more than 1 the west will be in BIG trouble!! I suspect and LGB will still turn it inside out like all the rest. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

That's right Boomer: an LGB, a SABOT, a HELLfire, a rear shot of a MPAT (They tested the OR-MPAT and turned an BMP/bunker inside out!) ...etc.

Can't wait to see what my fellow armor enthusiast, Sniper, says... <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>




Edited by - Tritonal on May 07 2003 4:49 PM

Thanks for sharing the article Tritonal.

It's from Pravda so we can rank it up there with the National Enquirer, although the Enquirer actually tells the truth sometimes, but then picking on Hollywood is pretty easy. Well, let's take alook at their claims...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
In October 1984, the USA launched its Challenger shuttle for the 13th time. When the shuttle flew over Lake Balkhash (in Soviet territory at that time), it suddenly lost contact with the Earth, devices on board the shuttle were lost and the astronauts themselves felt ill. The Americans held a thorough investigation of the incident and learned that the crew and the space vessel had suffered from something arising from the USSR. An official protest followed. After that, American space objects never suffered such faults over Soviet territory. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

An "official" protest that was never publically made. In fact only Pravada seems to know anything about it. Gosh, what in depth reporting! And what was the magic space beam that hit the shuttle? It couldn't have been a lasers don't make people sick, they burn holes through them or blind them. Maybe it was a giant microwave oven!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Our prospective friends calmed down, but it was only in 1989 that a US delegation was shown a part of the laser complex meant for aiming at remote objects. The apparatus was called Terra-3, and it had been aimed at the space shuttle.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Gosh those commies! Not only do they reveal their most secret weapons to us, they risk war doing it! What a bunck of crack addicts! Or maybe the "bunch of hooey" level is just a bit deep here.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The Russian tank Black Eagle (object 640) can be seen at military exhibitions from a distance only; its shape is disguised under camouflage net. The tank is very powerful: it weighs 50 tons and the turbine engine is of 1,500 horse-powers. The Black Eagle is 80 centimeters lower than the new T-80 tank. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

50 tons, roughly 15-18 tons lighter that the US M1 depending on the varient. WHich means unless the Russians have found a magically light weight armor, it has less armor than the M1a1. Russian armor was inferior before and now there's less of it.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The tank's main 125-caliber gun can fire regular shells and guided anti-tank missiles. They are developed by skilled specialists in the Russian city of Tula and can break through armor 1,000 millimeters thick. This means that even the most powerful tank in the West, the Abrams, with front armor of 800 millimeters, won't stand up to Russia's Black Eagle.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

There's no need to use a tank as a missile launcher unless your main gun can't hit crap at long range or lacks the puch to penetrate at that range. Why else would you settle for a missile attack which can be thwarted by the reply of a tank shell that will kill you before the missile hits the target, even if you fired first. The Russians have been using the same 125mm cannon since the sixties, it's never met the performance of the German 120mm mounted on the M1.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It is equipped with built-in dynamic protection covering a sector of 120 degrees, approximately. Dynamic protection units are installed in the front of the roof as well. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Dynamic protection? Is that a fancy way of saying reactive armor? If so, that's only good against HEAT shells, it's useless against DU sabot.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The tank has a combined sight with a built-in laser ranger that can operate in the daytime, as well as at night. The commander of the tank is provided with a thermal imaging surveillance device. It is not ruled out that information obtained by both devices can further appear on the displays of a commander or a gunner. The on-board information complex of the Black Eagle tank controls all the basic systems of the machine. It can also perform automated information exchange with other tanks and higher commanders. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Gosh, only two decades after the US too! I don't really see anything here that will worry the M1.

How about some real world testing like consumer reports. We take five of their new tanks the california desert make one apache run, one a-10 run, one bradly attack, one hummer attack, and one spitball attack. If more than one of these tanks makes it through the test we will advise all our enemies to buy them by the thousands.

After all we need something to bury our enemies in.

Claw, I'm wondering if your kidding about the "micro-wave oven" comment? The Soviets have lit-up pilots before with microwave systems. IIRC one was an F-111 surveilling a Soviet maritime exercise, the pilot said all of a sudden he was "disturbed" for several moments. I would guess that pilots get RADAR tracked frequently enough to know to know when something different is going on, so I guess this was something different from the norm. This was back around hmm..1985? maybee. Today the US Marines are working on a low freq micro wave laser for crowd control(they say) the effects are some burning sensations (but no real burns) and shall we say a loss of control over "bodily funtions" lol

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Talk about literally having a $hit fit over the subject at hand!!!

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -General George Patton

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>How about some real world testing like consumer reports. We take five of their new tanks the california desert make one apache run, one a-10 run, one bradly attack, one hummer attack, and one spitball attack. If more than one of these tanks makes it through the test we will advise all our enemies to buy them by the thousands.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>How 'bout even if <b><u><i>none</i></u></b> of 'em survive, we tell our enemies to buy them by the thousands??

Just a thought... <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

Oh, by the way, I'm new to the site and the forum... love the pictures and the chat thus far.

Russian tanks suck.



"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

LMAO...

Russian [put any noun except 'vodka' here] sucks...

"I like the way it fires, but do you have anything louder?"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Russian tanks suck <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

no they dont!!!! They BLOW!! with regularity, and great fanfare, generally in the presence of western ordinance LOLOL

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Oh, by the way, I'm new to the site and the forum... love the pictures and the chat thus far.


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

He followed me home Sniper.... can I keep him?

1. Don't look conspicuous; it draws fire.
2. Never draw fire; it irritates everyone around you.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

Stinger-

Nevermind, I'm keeping my mouth shut...

"I like the way it fires, but do you have anything louder?"

Good thing to Froggy.....

By the way guys this is Frogger I know him from the real world... He and I were in the same AFJROTC unit and was in the AFROTC unit at TCU, before financial troubles forced him out into the real world job market. He has none of the 'supposed' taint us ground pounders have. He is also much more sane than I am, for he never even contemplated jumping out of airplanes for a living.

1. Don't look conspicuous; it draws fire.
2. Never draw fire; it irritates everyone around you.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"

[quote]
Let the arms race commence:



In October 1984, the USA launched its Challenger shuttle for the 13th time. When the shuttle flew over Lake Balkhash (in Soviet territory at that time), it suddenly lost contact with the Earth, devices on board the shuttle were lost and the astronauts themselves felt ill. The Americans held a thorough investigation of the incident and learned that the crew and the space vessel had suffered from something arising from the USSR. --------

Gotta wonder if it happened. This was probably 1982 or so, US lost a weather satellite and no real reason was given. Some speculated that the Russians zapped it. I was flying out of Pt. Mugu and we had a series of storms hit us that weren't forecasted.

Lots of weird stuff during the Cold War. Till this day some families still wonder about some flight crews that were lost flying spooky missions from the late 40s. If a crew was lost, it was normally blamed on pilot or equipment error. Those cannon or rocket holes in the fuselage were overlooked.

Jack

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>He is also much more sane than I am, for he never even contemplated jumping out of airplanes for a living.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>"For a living"?!? You mean they <u>PAY</u> people for that???

Where do I sign? <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

"I like the way it fires, but do you have anything louder?"

P.S. - I hope everyone caught the sarcasm in that last post.

No offense, but I don't wanna get caught in a flood of posts and messages saying "Join the Army" or "Sign right on the dotted line" or something else to that effect.

Not that there's anything wrong with the USA or any other branch...

I'm shutting my mouth now...

"I like the way it fires, but do you have anything louder?"

welcome frogger, and if you keep your mouth shut you wont have any fun.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Lots of weird stuff during the Cold War. Till this day some families still wonder about some flight crews that were lost flying spooky missions from the late 40s. If a crew was lost, it was normally blamed on pilot or equipment error. Those cannon or rocket holes in the fuselage were overlooked.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

yeah considering RB-47s ( I think ) flew hundreds of miles inland into mother Russia along the eastern riverways as I recall, It's no suprise that an awful lot of "unknows" will probly exist for a LONG time.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Claw, I'm wondering if your kidding about the "micro-wave oven" comment? The Soviets have lit-up pilots before with microwave systems. IIRC one was an F-111 surveilling a Soviet maritime exercise, the pilot said all of a sudden he was "disturbed" for several moments. I would guess that pilots get RADAR tracked frequently enough to know to know when something different is going on, so I guess this was something different from the norm. This was back around hmm..1985? maybee. Today the US Marines are working on a low freq micro wave laser for crowd control(they say) the effects are some burning sensations (but no real burns) and shall we say a loss of control over "bodily funtions" lol

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I was only partially kidding. Microwave weapons are being / have been researched. I doubt they have the ability to fire through the atmosphere and hull of the space shuttle and still have any kind of effect. I really doubt the Soviets would have risked damaging a highly visible US symbol during the Reagan administration.

Welcome aboard K-Frog.



"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

[quote]


yeah considering RB-47s ( I think ) flew hundreds of miles inland into mother Russia along the eastern riverways as I recall, It's no suprise that an awful lot of "unknows" will probly exist for a LONG time.

---------------

RB-50s also and in 58 or so we had a EC-130 shotdown over Russia.

A Master Chief I knew in the Navy flew some Ferret missions in the mid 50s out of Turkey. They had half their Squadron shotdown in a year, they were flying some weird twin engine recip, took me years to confirm it happened.

Jack