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Mudd, Old Chief and anybody that worked under both systems I would like your opinion on life before the first re-org, life during the F/S commander in charge era and now the new/old way (21-101)? Strictly from your point of view. Since some of us are maintainers and some ops I expect some difference of opinion here. Don't hind your feelings either I really want to know how you think things were and how you think they are now? Is the fleet more heathly now or was it better before?

Let the opinions and facts fly gents.

Fender

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
George Bernard Shaw

Which system Fender, CAMS,OMS,FMS.AGS,AMU,EMS,CRS,AMS,TAC,MAC,SAC,ATC,AMC,MATS,ACC,TFW,TFS,FG you guys confuse mr enough as it is sometimes.

I went from CAMS/AEW(ScottAFB)to

MAC/TAG/OMS+PACAF/ABW/+AFCC/FCS/+BASEFLIGHT at (Yokota)(if that didnt screw you up)I wore uniforms with MAC/OMS/DCC patches,then on others MAC/AFCC/FCS/ DCC patches then PACAF/ABW/DCC depending on the Job,and who I was flying with or assigned too. I was always MAC even in PACAF,but Assigned to AFCC/FCS under OMS/BASEFLIGHT.
I have my last APR endorsed by PACAF/CC,AFCC,CC,5TH AF,OMS CC and ABW CC,I dont know how they did it but theirs more STARS on that thing then the sky.
I did fly with these Officers from time to time,or worked their JetOnly a few knew who I was,but I understand why they came out with the new EPR system after a few years later.

TAC/TFW/AGS/AMU at( England AFB)

MAC/MAW/OMS/AGS SECTION at (Travis AFB)
Then before I hit the door AMC/MAW/OMS/AGS SECTION it changed again.

now I know why I'm screwed-up

I liked the AGS and OMS better than CAMS but I think I really didnt know who or what I was under at times.

Goose

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin,
(1706 - 1790)

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Goose I am talking about when the F/S commander owned the whole deal, maintenance and all. For instance we have 3 fighter squadrons and each one was it's own deal. Now we have AMXS and one maintenance commander has all maintainers that are assisgned to AMU's. Under the old system there were no AMU's. Each fighter squadron owned it's own phase dock, now we are back where we were when you got out. EMS owns phase and AMXS is like AGS was years ago. Bascially under the old system there was no AGS. We had no DCM to say no to the pilot commander that wanted to fly the piss out of his jets.

Fender

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
George Bernard Shaw

So it was much like when you went TDY and the TFS/DET was is command,even though you brought a Maintance Officer or NCOIC to cordinate with OP's

I always liked our TFS CC, and we had Alot of good Commanders,Wing on down,DCM's were their for you "NOT TO LIKE" but you always respected them and they would treat you with respect even while you were on the "Carpet"! Col Brook's had my ass there more than once,but he understood CrewChiefs, one of the few I ever saw that I served under,That just made him "CHEW YOUR ASS MORE" but it was for the right reasons.

The thing I had alot of trouble was "JOB CONTROL OR MOC? in MAC it was Job Control and TAC it is MOC. I'd always slip on the Radio and call one the wrong name than at Travis it was "MOCC" so I just gave up one day and said "MUSHROOM Control" because they wre always in the Dark anyway.

The more they change the more they stay the same I guess.

Goose

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin,
(1706 - 1790)

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Mushroom Control I like that one Goose.<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

"GLAD TO HAVE BEEN THERE AND HAVE BEEN PROUD TO HAVE SERVERED"

I guess the DCM liked it too, Thats how I met him the first time in his office that plus Jodie and Mines "UNAUTHORIZED" callsigns Expiditing.

He explained "PRETTY WELL HOW MUCH HE LIKED OUR RADIO LINGO"".<img src=newicons/madani.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> So we cooled it for awhile,at least when days started showing up.

Hey, He was an EX-USAFE Hogkeeper new there too but in the differant section He was "Red 6" and I was "Silver6" We shared the same ramp,RED on onside, Silver the other.
We used "HOG1 and HOG2" so we knew who was on duty and
"Terminal Runs"

But Hell it was FUN!

Goose

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin,
(1706 - 1790)

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Wow Fender, good question. My knee jerk is the old system was better, but then, it always is isn't it. Let me chew on it for a day and I'll see if I can string together some thoughts.

OC

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints

Bump!

Fender

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
George Bernard Shaw

I liked i t better When the Commander could reach across the table and choke the Dumbass Maint Officer that didnt deliver the Jets. IMHO, It worked better this way. I understand the reasons for the combined Maintenance structure..Financially.

Look at it this way. If the Commander loves his Career, He will have good Mission availability rates. lets say you are under the new System and everything is combined, Well all it takes is a couple shit bird Units, and well all your leverage is lost. Your jets could be kicked to the back of the short bus so to speak.

Now if all the Jets are of the same type, your resources are a little better dedication wise and the skill level is higher.

Now we have on some bases Avionics techs that have to service the whole base. I dont think you get a very good or timely service when your technicians are having to work on x Amount of differnt type of aircraft.

IT seems more of a way to create newcommands than to solve the original issue. However being it is a command. It brings its own nature of accountability and maintenance focus.

So there is a pro and Con to all systems.

I still think ACC blows. I Mis the FIS and the TASS. I understand the FIS being absorbed. But killing off the TASS and losing essentially that Observer-scout mission to UAVS is a JOKE. We should 0f never let bronco Go. I bet the marines feel the same way.

The first Iraqi air Force aircraft are Observer loiter airframes...

It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her for it.
The cost of living has gone up another dollar a quart.Somebody left the cork out of my lunch.

I dont know how you guys worked under some of those "Trail and Error days"
I'm sorry just IMHO a Fighter pilot couldnt run a Transport Wing,like a Transport Pilot couldnt run a Fighter Wing because Their 2 differant frames of mind plus problems etc......
It was bad enough when you got a Herky Driver put incharge of a
C-141 wing OR the otherway it shows. Not saying they couldnt do it,but it took time to change gears for them.

Goose

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin,
(1706 - 1790)

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"