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Hey folks --

I took this quote and post from another thread, and reposted it here. I think that the sentiments expressed by this individual are common among most people, and felt that they needed to be addressed...


quote:
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The big problem in Iraq. We don't have enough troops and firepower. Add in LONG supply lines and unhappy locals.

The Baghdad 500 has turned into an ambush alley. This is a Rumsfeld designed campaign and he doesn't have a clue about logistics or ground tactics. Big hint was when we couldn't open up a Northern front from Turkey and they still went with shock & awe. It's turning into a big SNAFU. Another hint was the flak trap for the Apaches.



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My response:

Plenty of troops, plenty of firepower. Supply lines might be long, but air power is going to cover that (as well as your lack of 'firepower' issue).

Rumsfeld DID NOT design the campaign. What is going on right now is the result of lessons learned from the last time we were there, and the fact that finally someone incorporated the basic tenets of a forward-thinking individual who was well ahead of his time. Rumsfeld knows enough to let the appropriate military leadership do the planning, target selection, etc. THOSE lessons were learned in Southeast Asia.

It's obvious from your comments you have no idea what "Shock and Awe" really is. Lately that phrase has been used more than a Phillipino whore, and no explanation has been given in the media. The media likes it because it has a nice sound to it, and as superficial as the media is, they are willing to take it at face value. The term is a misnomer for what is really going on. When we look back on this war in 10, 20, even 50 years from now, we are going to realize that it was a revolution in warfare.

What you need to do is a Google search for "John Boyd Shock and Awe". The man was a genius who was obviously 30+ years ahead of his time. He revolutionized the Marine Corps style of waging war in the early 80s, and the Army has begun to follow the doctrine as well. Everything you see on the boob tube is a result of people finally implementing what to him was common sense. Do your homework, instead of remaining glued to CNN, or Al Jazeera, or whoever else.

I apologize if I come off sounding pissed, but I am, for a lot of reasons. In the words of R. Lee Ermey, don't "...open your alligator sized mouth before engaging your humming-bird sized brain." The only way to increase the size of that brain is to do some real homework on the tragic, historic, and hopefully liberating event taking place in Iraq right now.

I continue to pray for peace, the Palestinians and Israelis, the people of Afghanistan, the Iraqis (both military and civilian), our troops, their families, our leadership, French president Chirac, Russian President Putin, and the Pope. I'm sure several of you are going to wonder about the Pope. Well, if John Paul II can't see the parallels between the Catholic Church before and during World War II, and what is currently happening under Saddam Hussein's regime, then the good Lord should call him home and get someone less senile running the ship.

Maneuver warfare is key.




ATTACK!

It was planned to use massed TACAIR and arty to protect the west flank.

For the most part, that has been succesful, bet certainly not air tight.

It is also important to remember that politics removed the northern prong of the attack, some 30-60,000 US heavy forces.

Thanx for the post Air2.

Onward to Baghdad!!!

Edited by - m21 sniper on Mar 26 2003 07:05 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It was planned to use massed TACAIR and arty to protect the west flank.

For the most part, that has been succesful, bet certainly not air tight.

It is also important to remember that politics removed the northern prong of the attack, some 30-60,000 US heavy forces.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

What plan ever survives contact with the enemy, and what operation is ever air-tight?

Flexibility is paramount, especially when politics dictate when and where you go. The beauty of John Boyd's concepts are the inherent flexibility. Check this out, and pick up the book...it is a fantastic read.

http://www.post-gazette.com/nation/20030321boydnatp5.asp




ATTACK!

Here is more about the concepts I'm referring to:

http://www.d-n-i.net/second_level/boyd_military.htm
Take a look at Boyd's OODA loop.

http://d-n-i.net/fcs/cowan_proceedings.htm

http://sftt.org/dwa/2003/1/1/2.html

I'm not endorsing Barnes & Noble, but these two books are outstanding whether you buy them or get them from the library"
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=2ZY3D5HVLH&pwb=1&ean=9780316881463

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=1560989416



ATTACK!

[quote]


I apologize if I come off sounding pissed, but I am, for a lot of reasons. In the words of R. Lee Ermey, don't "...open your alligator sized mouth before engaging your humming-bird sized brain." The only way to increase the size of that brain is to do some real homework on the tragic, historic, and hopefully liberating event taking place in Iraq right now.

--------------------

It was my post and I stand by it. They have stopped the advance to Baghdad to tidy up the supply lines. I don't think the Iraqis feel they are being liberated. Especially since we left many hanging out to dry in 91.

I have read quite a bit on 40 second Boyd. He brought us the Viper an the Hog. Boyd was a classic and should had been promoted into the Star ranks.

We have nearly 1/3 the strength we had in Gulf War and no local nations are assisting us. We are playing in Saddam's sandbox and his troops have adapted. The ambushed those 30 odd Apaches pretty well.

The Generals made many assumptions. Assumptions are the mother of all FUs.

This is a logistics war and our armor sucks it right up. Already read of some columns that nearly ran out of fuel and ammo.

I don't want to lose any troops over assumptions made in DC. You can start when they thought Turkey would allow a Northern Front. Now the 4TH won't be in the fight until next month.

Jack

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> They have stopped the advance to Baghdad to tidy up the supply lines. I don't think the Iraqis feel they are being liberated. Especially since we left many hanging out to dry in 91. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

We are in total agreement here. However, one of our objectives is regime change. Once the Stalinist madman is removed from power, I anticipate many Iraqi people realizing that we really are the good guys. Sorry, folks, we left you high and dry in '91, but we're no-kidding here to get rid of that a--hole this time. The average Iraqi holds no love for Saddam.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I have read quite a bit on 40 second Boyd. He brought us the Viper an the Hog. Boyd was a classic and should had been promoted into the Star ranks. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Unfortunately, it is the people who create waves that don't make it past O-6 (some never get to O-6), and Boyd created TIDAL waves. Those types can either be major idiots, people who accidentally stepped on someone's d---, or more rarely, geniuses ahead of their time.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> We have nearly 1/3 the strength we had in Gulf War and no local nations are assisting us. We are playing in Saddam's sandbox and his troops have adapted. The ambushed those 30 odd Apaches pretty well. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

All true. However, we have better equipment than in '91, our forces are much more expeditionary in nature, and Kuwait is assisting just by allowing us to be there. While Saddam's troops have adapted, they are still using tricks seen in other theaters, and our boys are already overcoming them. I heard about the Apache shoot-up...bad deal, but I don't know the details.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> The Generals made many assumptions. Assumptions are the mother of all FUs. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

It's called the fog of war. You can't know everything, and so sometimes your best guess has to be good enough. Yes, Turkey screwed us by not allowing us to have a northern front. So you press to plan B. Once you engage the enemy, plan B becomes plan C, plan D, etc...and it's happening from our centralized command, decentralized execution.

When it's over, and we take a look at what was accomplished and, more importantly, HOW it was accomplished, I think the numbers will speak for themselves. I hate to refer to numbers; reminds me of the body-count mentality in Vietnam. However, I sincerely believe that afterwards, the statistics will show that we did it right.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> This is a logistics war and our armor sucks it right up. Already read of some columns that nearly ran out of fuel and ammo. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Every war is a logisitics war. The old saying, "Lieutenants study tactics and Generals study logisitics" will always hold true. I think with the captured airfields (and I'm not talking about H1, H2 or H3) you're going to see logistics work out just fine in the days ahead.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I don't want to lose any troops over assumptions made in DC. You can start when they thought Turkey would allow a Northern Front. Now the 4TH won't be in the fight until next month.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Again, I am against "D.C." decision making when it comes down to planning and execution at the operator level, but the Commander-in-Chief has to play politics and make some tough calls. From the looks of things, senior military leadership are doing a fine job flexing after the loss of their northern front. It would be extremely hard to say a certain amount of casualties resulted in the south from a lack of a northern front. I'm sure they have their reasons for kicking off the party without the 4th in place. It also looks like we're diverting some of the bad guys' attention from the south with airborne insertions from the north-northwest. As far as Turkey is concerned, it looks like they have their own game plan in mind.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Jack <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Appreciate the good points and counterpoints, Jack. I had anticipated as much. Hell, we're no psychics, and both or either of us could be full of hot air...only time will tell. It is good to talk about these things, and good that we live in a society that allows us the freedom to do so.

If you're ever going to be in the Philly area, E-mail me and we can look back on it and see what lessons we can both learn from it. I'll buy the first round.




ATTACK!

The loss of the 4th ID is what is really hurting us.

However, if the total picture is looked upon, this has still been remarkably succesful operation to date.

We have less than 30 combat fatalaties vs god knows how many thousands of Iraqi fatalaties.

I still feel the outcome is totally inevitable, ESPECIALLY now that the Iraqi's have massed and are charging south to their deaths.

I expect the 4th ID should be offloaded and ready to move out to get in the fight by monday morning.

Onward to Baghdad!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The loss of the 4th ID is what is really hurting us.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Yes...and no. It sucks that we couldn't use them at the start, but as you say here...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
However, if the total picture is looked upon, this has still been remarkably succesful operation to date.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

You bet it has, and will continue to be. Besides the 4th, there are other units that are also on the way that will contribute.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
We have less than 30 combat fatalaties vs god knows how many thousands of Iraqi fatalaties.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I thought the number of coalition dead was higher, but I haven't been getting my info from CNN, Fox, MSNBC, etc. I really feel for those poor Iraqis...meaning your average, run-of-the-mill regular army guy, not Saddam and his fanatics. They don't stand much of a chance.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I still feel the outcome is totally inevitable, ESPECIALLY now that the Iraqi's have massed and are charging south to their deaths.

I expect the 4th ID should be offloaded and ready to move out to get in the fight by monday morning.

Onward to Baghdad!!!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Yes, they are setting themselves up for a Warthog turkey shoot, not to mention all the other platforms waiting to blow them back to Baghdad.

Let the feeding frenzy begin! I only hope the 4th ID doesn't arrive too late to get in on the action. You predict Monday morning, which means they still have to ride up north where all the action is...by the time they get there, they'll arrive to find burned out hulks with 30mm holes in them!




ATTACK!

I agree it's going well, but I would have liked a week or so of "pre attrition" before rolling steel in country. But then again war is really just attrition vs. attrition , right Snipe <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

It can be boomer.

The idea is normally to use manuever to so overwhelm the enemy with massed fires that they crumble like a cookie.

The hit and run tactics employed by the forces in the south have made that impossible so far, but the RGFC divisions will have to mass to defend Baghdad, and when they do...

So far, attriting the allies is exactly what the Iraqi's have been doing. Harrasing attacks in the rear are troublesome, but when they cannot be coupled with a real capability to counterattack with massed forced they are not decisive in and of themselves.

Just a nusiance, and i suppose an embarrasment.

The US 173d Airborne has just siezed a strip in the North with a Bn of reinforced paratroopers, and i am hearing all kinds of scuttlebutt about where that will lead. Looks like Poke was right.

I honestly don't know how long Baghdad will hold out- or the tactics they are planning to use to defend it, but this could take a while- maybe a few months.

Who knows though, it could be over next week.

Onward to Baghdad!!!

I'd like to cycle Hogs with a good FLIR up and down those supply lines mornin noon and night.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>We have less than 30 combat fatalaties vs god knows how many thousands of Iraqi fatalaties.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>


CIA reports upwards of 20,000 Iraqi casualties.
I heard that Tuesday evening. Who knows what it is now?

SO are we gonna stop this time, when the piles of bodies get to high or are we gonna finish it this time. Remember the effect the highway of death had.

Appreciate the good points and counterpoints, Jack. I had anticipated as much. Hell, we're no psychics, and both or either of us could be full of hot air...only time will tell. It is good to talk about these things, and good that we live in a society that allows us the freedom to do so.

If you're ever going to be in the Philly area, E-mail me and we can look back on it and see what lessons we can both learn from it. I'll buy the first round.--------

OK. Am just pissed at the conduct of this War. Just finished my databases surfing. Only good news, if that was dropping a 1,000 paratroopers. Without armor they are toast.

Another big hint, Pentagon won't reveal casualties. We all know that's reported daily by every unit. I read we lost 2 Marines that drowned in full battle gear trying to cross a damn canal.

Dunno if anybody has read about LTGEN Van Riper, but he blew away the blue forces in war gaming an Iraq invasion. IMO, Saddam read his tactics and adapted.

Jack




ATTACK!
[/quote]

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
OK. Am just pissed at the conduct of this War. Just finished my databases surfing. Only good news, if that was dropping a 1,000 paratroopers. Without armor they are toast.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

In a previous post, I was hinting at the fact that there would be troops inserted to attack from the north, but I couldn't come right out and say it. As far as armor is concerned, I am not sure what type of vehicles went in with them. Let's just say that airpower will be allocated to cover them in a timely manner if they need it.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Another big hint, Pentagon won't reveal casualties. We all know that's reported daily by every unit. I read we lost 2 Marines that drowned in full battle gear trying to cross a damn canal.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

That's horrible about the Leathernecks. Guess the drownproofing during basic only works in an indoor pool...

Pentagon has revealed casualties, and continues to do so after next-of-kin are notified. 47 coalition casualties to date, unfortunately more to come. If you want to find out more about each person, check here:

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Dunno if anybody has read about LTGEN Van Riper, but he blew away the blue forces in war gaming an Iraq invasion. IMO, Saddam read his tactics and adapted.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Crap happens in exercises AND combat. Fortunately he made the mistake in peacetime, hopefully he avoided that same mistake doing it for real. That's why we practice.

I think Saddam has most likely watched us in Somalia, Bosnia/Kosovo, and Afghanistan, and adapted. I do not know the particulars of LTGEN Van Riper's buffoonery during the exercise, but I would expect Saddam learned more from our previous military exploits than from one general's mistake.

Just my opinion.




ATTACK!

Edited by - air2mud on Mar 27 2003 10:22 AM

Van Ripper used intimate knowledge of the exercise to "Cheat".

He also kicked the piss out of the Blue Force.

But then again, so does the 11th ACR out at NTC on a regular basis...they just don't cheat.

Onward to Baghdad!!!

[quote]
Van Ripper used intimate knowledge of the exercise to "Cheat".

He also kicked the piss out of the Blue Force.

---------------

Their is no cheating in War. Ripper is now a Pentagon consultant.

We haven't even cleared out the mines yet in the deep water port.

Our folks are tired and LOCs aren't working well. Let alone the big FF between Marines and up to 37 hit with vehicles destroyed.

I got a bad feeling Saddam has some other tricks up his sleeve. They haven't launched a SAM nor lit off any fire control radar.

If it goes to house to house in Baghdad, it won't be pretty.

Jack

"Their is no cheating in War."

I point to the Fedayeen as a direct contradiction of the above statement.

"Ripper is now a Pentagon consultant."

As he should be.

"We haven't even cleared out the mines yet in the deep water port."

The USN has put MCM on the backburner for years. It has been a weakness of the United States for decades. This should be no surprise to anyone.

"Our folks are tired and LOCs aren't working well."

Welcome to land warfare.

"Let alone the big FF between Marines and up to 37 hit with vehicles destroyed."

Welcome to the fog of war.

"I got a bad feeling Saddam has some other tricks up his sleeve."

I would expect many. I also expect them to be irrelevent in the end.

"They haven't launched a SAM nor lit off any fire control radar."

I saw several SAMs fired on the first few nights of the war. They have not shot any lately, which to me indicates they have lost their search radars- or at least most of them.

"If it goes to house to house in Baghdad, it won't be pretty."

MOUT is never pretty, regardless of the location.

However, unlike Mogadishu, Baghdad actually has a large road system of broad, wide boulevards, and very few tall buildings.
It is pretty hard to ask for any more than that really.

It WILL be a bloodbath though, particularly for the Iraqi's.


Onward to Baghdad!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
"

MOUT is never pretty, regardless of the location.

However, unlike Mogadishu, Baghdad actually has a large road system of broad, wide boulevards, and very few tall buildings.
It is pretty hard to ask for any more than that really.

It WILL be a bloodbath though, particularly for the Iraqi's.------

Your far more positive than I. LtGen Wallace stated that we didn't war game for this much resistance. It's now a 350 mile long front and some really tired troops.

Concur on MCM. We keep finding more Iraqi mines. A real low tech approach to denying us ports.

Time is not on our side. As summer approaches that heat will be a killer.

Keeping fingers crossed.

Jack


Onward to Baghdad!!!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

"Your far more positive than I."

Probably because i know how much fight our grunts have in them.

"LtGen Wallace stated that we didn't war game for this much resistance."

Through the use of our top notch training, massive technological superiority, and the innovation of our young American field officers and NCO's we will adapt and overcome as neccesary. Our troops are the best in the world, it's not just a rumor. NTC has proven the former and effected the latter.

"It's now a 350 mile long front and some really tired troops."

Ah, the stuff legends are made of.....





"I Am Infantry...Follow Me!!!"

"Time is not on our side. As summer approaches that heat will be a killer."

Just like a day at NTC in august.

Ever been to the Mojave desert?



"I Am Infantry...Follow Me!!!"

[quote]
"
Just like a day at NTC in august.

Ever been to the Mojave desert?


----------

Yeah I grew up in Los Angeles and use to hunt rabbits in the Mojave by Edwards. Ever been to El Centro on a hot day taking off in a Herc?

My Daddy use to play war games a long time ago for the Army in the desert. Then he real time in the PI.

I flew in the Navy, worked in maintenance, and understand LOCs. March 17th Aviation Week had a piece on Naval aircraft. Very interesting part was the DMMH on F-14Ds, a mere 60 per flight hour, about triple what Hornets need. This is before the sandstorms hit and the nasty grit that kills turbines, like in the Abrams.

Let alone a piece tonight that lead elements in the 3RD haven't been resupplied in 4 days.

Logistics and details get you killed on a 350 mile front. Navy has launched attack planes and they couldn't drop without a good ID on targets. Whole damn carrier force.

This isn't a pissin contest between you and me. The Army was denied over half the force projection they wanted in Iraq. Let alone no Northern Front.

Were stretched in a sandbox. While fighting the whole way.

You been in the desert. How long do tracks last? How well do sensors last in sandstorms?

Jack

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Fedayeen<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

does anybody know if this is an accurate english spelling for the Fedayeen Sadaam ? would like to do some mission building.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Yup Booms, that's accurate.

"I Am Infantry...Follow Me!!!"

"Yeah I grew up in Los Angeles and use to hunt rabbits in the Mojave by Edwards. Ever been to El Centro on a hot day taking off in a Herc?"

I dunno where El Centro is, lol- so probably not

"My Daddy use to play war games a long time ago for the Army in the desert. Then he real time in the PI."

Pacific Islands? Next time you talk to him- tell him i said thanx for what they all did then. I mean it.

"I flew in the Navy, worked in maintenance, and understand LOCs."

I never implied you didn't.

"March 17th Aviation Week had a piece on Naval aircraft. Very interesting part was the DMMH on F-14Ds, a mere 60 per flight hour, about triple what Hornets need."

This has always been an achilles heel of the F-14.

"This is before the sandstorms hit and the nasty grit that kills turbines, like in the Abrams."

Actually, the Army's experience in the first war was that the sand actually helped to keep the turbine blades clean, but that the sand was murder on the air filters. I expect it's probably the same now.

"Let alone a piece tonight that lead elements in the 3RD haven't been resupplied in 4 days."

The severity of that depends on what they have- or rather don't have.
SOP is to carry ten days of water and MRE's, depending on their ammuntion expenditure, this could vary from an inconvenience to a major problem. In any case, our ground troops have to overcome these problems. That is their job.

"Logistics and details get you killed on a 350 mile front."

This 350 mile front has just been reduced to 200 miles by the establishment of the Iraqi FOB put up by the 101st Airborne.
That will help a lot, and so will chopping combat elements of the 3d to provide security.

"Navy has launched attack planes and they couldn't drop without a good ID on targets. Whole damn carrier force."

Our ground forces can still get the job done without air, it just means a higher cost in blood.

"This isn't a pissin contest between you and me."

That's good, cause i like you.

"The Army was denied over half the force projection they wanted in Iraq. Let alone no Northern Front."

BIG TIME POLITICAL CLUSTERFUCK.

No other way to cut it.

"Were stretched in a sandbox. While fighting the whole way."

Let me ask you one question. Would you trade our situation for the Iraqi situation in a million years?

Ne neither...

"You been in the desert. How long do tracks last? How well do sensors last in sandstorms?"

Tracks actually get pretty good wear in the soft sands(they are worst on rocky terrain and asphault), but yes, the sandstorms greatly decrease the resolution of FLIR, etc.

I am not defending Rumsfeld(who i largely view as an idiot), i am however stating that whatever problems exist are relatively minor, and will actually force the allies into a MUCH NEEDED consolidation campaign while they mass the neccesary forces for the final push on Baghdad.

Let the USAF and USN pound the Iraqi's for another week. Let our Apache's and Cobra's hammer them for 7 more days. While that is going on it will give our forces in the south the time neccesary to provide LOCSEC, as well as working the Fedayeen in the South.

Once the 4th ID is married with it's equipment and massed South of Baghdad, and the US 1st INF(Probably a Bde) is inserted into Northern Iraq we can hit them with Six full divisions(101st AA, 82d AB, 3d ID, 4th ID, 1st Marines and the UK Division, as well as a Bde of the 173d and a Bde of the 1st INF.

That will be more than enough to shatter the Baghdad defenses while still providing full flankSEC and LOCSEC.

Just be patient. They screwed up in their initial projections, but it is all easily fixable now that they have realized their error.

At least they didn't stay in denial and try to push the attack as is.
THEN you'd have cause to freak.

"I Am Infantry...Follow Me!!!"