WT Forums

Home | WT Forums | Hogpedia | Warthog blog | Hosted sites
It is currently 05 Apr 2025, 13:39

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 01 May 2003, 20:45 
Offline

Joined: 05 Aug 2002, 13:28
Posts: 2210
How many rounds does it carry?

Guess the 4th crew member really puts weight on the design.



Edited by - Tritonal on May 01 2003 7:46 PM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 01 May 2003, 21:18 
The M-1A2SEP also has better flank protection, which adds a lot of wieght, as does the CITV, and all the fancy gadgets.

I think the Leo II A8 holds about 40 rds?

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 01 May 2003, 22:13 
Offline

Joined: 05 Aug 2002, 13:28
Posts: 2210
I'm thinking they will be able to accomodate but the higher-calibre gun setup with an adequate ammunition store(<i>maybe</i> 40 rounds) is a considerable leap in weight.

I'm trying to look for a pic. of a 140mm Leopard... I knew I saw it somewhere...

But then I think, why do you need a bigger calibre? The 120mm MPAT/Heat/Sabot already possess very lethal capabilities for future threats.

Heres a link:http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/5fcs97.pdf





Edited by - Tritonal on May 01 2003 9:20 PM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 04:00 
Offline
Farfrompukin
User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2003, 12:54
Posts: 941
Location: Germany
The project with the 140mm was stopped (too expensive) as far as I know. This version was designed for a 3-man crew.
The common versions in Germany are now A4/A5/A6 (42 rounds)

picture 140mm: (scroll down a bit...)

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm

"I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!"
-Homer, The Simpsons

_________________
\"My name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit.\"

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 11:51 
Thanx for the link Herr Homer.

The new L55 would be a definite improvement as well. It's already employed on the 2A6 and the Challenger II.

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 12:08 
Offline

Joined: 05 Aug 2002, 13:28
Posts: 2210
Thanks Homer, that was the site I was trying to find.
Saw the 140mm gun proto. It looked comical, like a cartoon-tank.
I wonder if they can make the barrel length smaller?


Look at my previous post/link from <i>Armor</i> Magazine. It is really interesting to see the future developments of this system. One statement is that it might be fitted to the next Abrams upgrade.



Edited by - Tritonal on May 02 2003 12:25 PM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 14:05 
Offline
Farfrompukin
User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2003, 12:54
Posts: 941
Location: Germany
The 140mm really looks like a lot of firepower!
Perhaps they make it that big to impress everyone<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Yes, maybe the next Abrams gets it.
Many projects for the german army/air force are put on hold or cancelled totally because of belt-tightening...

I think the german armed forces are in a difficult situation because of that. We could get into a lot of trouble if we go on like that...



"I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!"
-Homer, The Simpsons

_________________
\"My name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit.\"

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 14:13 
Offline

Joined: 05 Aug 2002, 13:28
Posts: 2210
Now that I see the gun it would be very inconvenient to use in heavily forested areas and damn-near impossible to utilize for MOUT settings.

Anyways,
How's Germany doing? I heard they have alot of Econmic troubles with a double digit unemployment rate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 14:48 
Offline
Farfrompukin
User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2003, 12:54
Posts: 941
Location: Germany
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Anyways,
How's Germany doing? I heard they have alot of Econmic troubles with a double digit unemployment rate.


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> unemployment rate ca. 10% (4 Million)

Even worse, the government with chancellor Schroeder doesn´t have any concepts. They got re-elected in September 2002, since that there´s chaos going on. One day this direction, the next day 180° back!
In the end, nothing happens!

Well, I didn´t vote for them!!!
The war in iraq was a big lift for Schroeder, because 70-80% of the germans agreed with his politics (what politics? hmmm..). Let´s say they agreed with his stupid "No war!" b..ls..t.

I believe we will get a feedback for that. I said it here before, the USA is an important market for many german companies. Let´s see what will happen to this market...

BTW, do you know what the price for gas is in Germany? <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle> over 70% taxes on it!










"I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!"
-Homer, The Simpsons

_________________
\"My name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit.\"

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 15:45 
Offline

Joined: 05 Aug 2002, 13:28
Posts: 2210
Das ist Furchtbar!(don't know if "u" has the umlaut)

Let's just hope he's a one-termer. When's the next election?

I believe this is a small window into what would happen if Nader was elected in the US(God Forbid!!!) He's a Green as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 15:53 
Offline
Farfrompukin
User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2003, 12:54
Posts: 941
Location: Germany
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Das ist Furchtbar!(don't know if "u" has the umlaut)

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Perfect spelling and also very true!

Unfortunatly this is the 2nd period of Mr. Schroeder. He´s chancellor since 1998. Regular elections are every 4 years, so if he doesn´t resign on his own, he continues till at least 2006.
<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

"I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!"
-Homer, The Simpsons

_________________
\"My name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit.\"

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 17:43 
The L55 will definitely prevent problems for the operator in restricted terrain, i agree Booms.



"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 17:49 
Offline

Joined: 05 Aug 2002, 13:28
Posts: 2210
Booms? Boomer?... Where's his post?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 18:58 
Whoops.....I agree Tritonal. ;)

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.

Edited by - m21 sniper on May 02 2003 5:59 PM


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 20:14 
Offline

Joined: 05 Aug 2002, 13:28
Posts: 2210
Understood.
Boomer sometimes reads my mind and posts things before I can state them <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

I was actually refering to the 140mm, perhaps it can be shorter.
I like the L55
The Link I posted talks about combining the technologies of 120/140mm guns for the next FCS:

The XM291 gun is a spin-off of the
dual-caliber approach previously adopted
by the U.S. Army. It was developed by
the Army Armament Research, Develop-ment
and Engineering Center (ARDEC)
in collaboration with Watervliet Arsenal,
and is a combination of a common rein-forced
120/140mm high-pressure breech/
chamber with a light 120mm gun tube.
This newly designed “Lightweight 120mm
Tank Main Armament System,” could
yield comparable results to the 140mm
gun at the lower performance range of
the latter. Another improvement in gun
performance could be obtained by the
use of propellant with greater surface
burning progressivity, which generates
higher pressure gradients to propel pro-jectiles.
An additional increase in gun
performance could come from a reduc-tion
in the temperature sensitivity of pro-pellants,
which will allow the increase of
burning rates at lower temperatures.
Maximum allowable chamber pressure
at normal and high temperatures can be
raised by employing higher strength im-proved
steels commonly utilized in con-struction
of gun barrels.
Advanced 120mm KE penetrators, Sen-sor
Fused Weapons (SFW), Smart tank
munitions and Smart Top Attack Weap-ons
1,2 (STAW) will soon be introduced
into the inventory. These munitions have
extended autonomous capabilities such
as independent target acquisition, identi-fication,
prioritization, maneuver control,
and improved lethality.
These improvements, impressive as
they are, will probably not lead the way
to the FCS’s main antitank armament
due to large caliber burden, ammunition
vulnerability, and the inherent limited
growth potential of solid propellants
(SP). According to basic governing ther-modynamic
laws, the velocity at which
chemical SP could accelerate a projectile
is controlled by the velocity at which a
gas could physically expand. For all
practical purposes, contemporary 120-
mm guns may ultimately reach a muzzle
velocity of 1800-2000 + m/sec. Future
140mm guns (if fielded) may reach an
extended muzzle velocity of 2100-2300 +
m/sec while their effective ‘kill’ range
will not exceed 6-7 km at best.
With industrial and logistic infrastruc-tures
already in place, backed by battle-field-
proven technology, conventional
120mm guns will remain the ‘backbone’
system in service for the next 20-30
years and beyond. They will progres-sively
continue to receive incremental
improvements until replaced, while al-lowing
development for the U.S. Army. To the
best of our information, the U.S. Army
has reluctantly given up on this promis-ing
technology in Crusader.

Edited by - Tritonal on May 02 2003 7:35 PM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 21:52 
The L-55 is a LOT longer than the L-44. 1320 mm longer in fact.

We need electromagnetic rail guns. ;)

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 02 May 2003, 22:15 
Offline
WT Game Warden
User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2002, 21:15
Posts: 2000
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>We need electromagnetic rail guns. ;) <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

My favorite weapon when playing Red Faction.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Fender
Hands clear. All switches off, safe or normal. Gun hot or cold? No limit, you bet.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03 May 2003, 06:24 
Offline

Joined: 06 Oct 2002, 02:04
Posts: 496
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



they killed an abrams [sobs uncontroably]

hanging fuel bladders on the turret Tsk Tsk Tsk

i agree with snipe keep the gas turbine

vader: Obi-wan never told you what happend to your father
luke:he told me enough, he told me you killed him
vader: no luke i am yor father


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 03 May 2003, 11:53 
Offline

Joined: 05 Feb 2003, 15:00
Posts: 119
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>hanging fuel bladders on the turret Tsk Tsk Tsk<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Oh why did they not use the two-wheel fuel trailers and just tow the fuel behind then with say a quick release cable on the hick? Or would that that been too easy and cheap! Or would the heat of the engine be too much for trailers that close?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>i agree with snipe keep the gas turbine<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

The turbine I feel is still the right chose till maybe fuel cells come along.

Why spend money on a 140mm when the 120mm should do okay till the year 2100!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 05 May 2003, 15:40 
Offline

Joined: 05 Aug 2002, 13:28
Posts: 2210
It'a always better to have a BIGGER advantage against the enemy.

140mm bigger!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 08 May 2003, 11:59 
Offline
Farfrompukin
User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2003, 12:54
Posts: 941
Location: Germany
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It'a always better to have a BIGGER advantage against the enemy.

140mm bigger!


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Here´s a big one. I like that..
http://www.ranger25.com/8%20Inch%20SP.1.htm

"I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!"
-Homer, The Simpsons

_________________
\"My name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit.\"

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 08 May 2003, 12:45 
Offline
WT Game Warden
User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2003, 08:32
Posts: 1097
Isn't that an 8 in howitzer?

1. Don't look conspicuous; it draws fire.
2. Never draw fire; it irritates everyone around you.

_________________
\"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up\"
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 08 May 2003, 14:43 
Offline
Farfrompukin
User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2003, 12:54
Posts: 941
Location: Germany
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Isn't that an 8 in howitzer?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Yes, I know it doesn´t quite belong to the 120-140mm tank guns...
But it´s nice too
<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

"I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!"
-Homer, The Simpsons

_________________
\"My name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit.\"

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 08 May 2003, 23:38 
Offline

Joined: 05 Aug 2002, 13:28
Posts: 2210
I wonder why the 8" is not used anymore?
I guess MLRS replaced it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 09 May 2003, 12:16 
The M-110 had no crew protection whatsoever, very limited ammunition stowage capacity and a dreadfully slow rate of fire.

I still loved calling in 8" FFE's though. AWESOME display of firepower. :)

"If they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker, Battle of Lexington.


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group