WT Forums

AF pilots should be able to do exchange tours with the IAF. It seams that it would be a good way to get combat experience… essentially fighting the same enemy that we are fighting in OEF and OIF. But that would probally be way to cool to ever happen.

"One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine." -- Junior Soviet Lieutenant

Heard lots of rumors of IAF pilots flying during GW 1

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

aw a post on PakDef. Claiming IDF Soldiers took part in GW1.

"No, Russia is the world's second superpower, they won't fall so easily, so cut the crap." --Black Eagle Force

_________________

Why would we send our pilots to Israel to gain 'combat experience', when the US has fought 5 wars since the last time an IAF pilot fired a round in anger in a major engagement?

Really, duh.

"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."

AF pilots could learn a lot by simply being involved with the IAF in a combat environment. Then bring this added experience back to their squadrons. Isn’t this the purpose of the exchange program anyway? It makes since (save political concerns) that we would want to gain experience from a kick ass AF that has been fighting terrorist in the middle east long before the average American could point out Iraq on a map. Duh

"One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine." -- Junior Soviet Lieutenant

MightyMouse, Snipe's VERY valid and obvious point, is that US operations over the past 14 years have been FAR more active and challenging than what Israel has conducted in about 20.

A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down...

"AF pilots could learn a lot by simply being involved with the IAF in a combat environment. Then bring this added experience back to their squadrons. Isn’t this the purpose of the exchange program anyway? It makes since (save political concerns) that we would want to gain experience from a kick ass AF that has been fighting terrorist in the middle east long before the average American could point out Iraq on a map. Duh"

If you want our troops in a combat environment, send them to Iraq or Afghanistan. Plenty of live ordnance being traded on a daily basis in those places.

What are we going to learn from Israel?
How to blow up Palestinian houses with gunships?

"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."

Your main point is well taken… But I disagree with your precept that we really don’t have anything to learn from the IAF. My simple point is that there is something to be gained from learning (through experience) how others do business, particularly the IAF.


"One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine." -- Junior Soviet Lieutenant

Why 'particularly the IDF'?

Cause they've smoked the Arabs a bunch of times?

The IDF is an organization living on the 'legend' of earlier generations. Generations that smacked around the most militarily incompetent people in the world a few times.

If you ask me, the time/money would be much better spent cross training with our only real allies....the British.

At least the British won't sell our technology to the Chinese.

"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."

1. Particularly the IAF because they have been preemptively striking terrorist targets for decades now.

2. We already do exchanges with the British, and several of other countries.

3. Can you document a case where Israel has sold our technologically to China? Do you really think that China poses a national security threat to us? I think they are enjoying favored nation trading status a little too much to do anything stupid.


"One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine." -- Junior Soviet Lieutenant

"3. Can you document a case where Israel has sold our technologically to China? Do you really think that China poses a national security threat to us? I think they are enjoying favored nation trading status a little too much to do anything stupid."

Do a google search for "Phalcon AEW".

The Israeli's have attempted to sell one of the most advanced AEW platforms in existence to the CHICOMS. It is loaded with sensitive US originated technology, btw.

They tried to sell the CHICOMS the Phacon 4 AAM too.



"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."

That’s interesting, I didn’t realize that had happened (probably because I was a sophomore in HS at the time). But what’s important is that the sale didn’t go through as the US requested. Do you know if the Indians ever acquired the system?

"One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine." -- Junior Soviet Lieutenant

Hey Sniper, doesn't that new jet design the Chinese have look like the Lavi?

I think it was this one:

<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/j-10-3view.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Tritonal on Aug 25 2003 8:56 PM

Yep, a lot of F-16 tech went to the Lavi and into the J-10. Who knows about a lot of smaller technical stuff like NVGs, navigation equipment, and other electronics and/or programming that has been passed on to the ChiComs. As long as the ChiComs are expanding their military, threaten Taiwan, and conduct espionage (not to mention their DASTARDLY deeds of illicite duplication and sale of copywrighted media! <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>) then they are a potential threat and advanced technology MUST be kept out of their Maoist clutches.

A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down...

[quote]

If you want our troops in a combat environment, send them to Iraq or Afghanistan. Plenty of live ordnance being traded on a daily basis in those places.

--------

Don't forget Colombia, PI, and other sweet garden spots for daily combat ops.

US is the world's largest arms dealer. IMO, selling our frontline equipment to any country (except the Commonwealth countries), can come back to bite us in ass.

Current fine examples are the Stingers we gave to the Mujahadeen in Afghan and the M-113s, M.50s etc. in Iraq.

When Nixon opened up China in the early 70s, he started the high tech exchange starting with our spy sats. Plus a few super computers of the day.

When I went through flight school in the mid 70s, we had lots of foreign exchange students in the pipeline.

Jack

Of course Al 'i invented the internet' Gore was the worst offender of all.

He insisted the USN use the inadequate KA-31 missiles for drones(meaning russian technicians would be priivy to sensitive USN fleet defense data), and of course, he was all for 'strengthening ties' with the CHICOMS.

Friggin Boob.

"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."

There are several foreign students in the pipeline right now. Most weren’t too surprising (i.e. friendlies from OIF).

I did double take when I saw one guy in a flight suit with a turban,,, no shit.

"One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine." -- Junior Soviet Lieutenant

"I did double take when I saw one guy in a flight suit with a turban,,, no shit."

Probably one of those Indians. The USAF works pretty closely with the IAF from what i gather.

"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."

hmmm... wonder how much tech the chi-coms got from our US RADAR installations in northern China back in the 60s-70s hmmmm.......

I think the Isrealis are the only force(other than our own) that can give us a decent fight with decent equipment, the Brits have Harrier and Tornado (neither of them GREAT fighters), the Euros have F-16s and some late model Mirages and little else.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

France has Rafales.

But i wouldn't diss the RAF and it's F.1 Tornado's.

The Limeys are extremely professional and quite well trained.

"Trample the wounded, hurdle the dead."

do the ADVs have AMRAAM yet?


"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Not really sure. I do know they use Skyflash.

The F.2 Sea Harrier has em though.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton

Chad, i think calling the F.1 Tornado a 'great' fighter is definitely stretching things. What they do have is great pilots flying them.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton

I think anyone flying Harriers will tell you that are something less than satisfying in air to air, the Brits had superior training and weapons in the Falklands going up against older model Mirages and Skyhawks. The Skyhawks probly outrun and out turn Harriers even with "viffing" at all altitudes.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

A lot more to the fight than 'turning and outrunning'.

The Sea Harrier has a good radar, and it's got AMRAAM. And according to the Pilots i've seen on TV, the Harrier is a 'hot rod, pure and simple'.

But i digress.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton