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Mudd, Sniper, any body else out got any ideas? check out link

http://www.almuhajiroun.com/

These bastards are taughting us they either need to be arrested or disposed of.

Their vision if your read the whole site it is basically a declaration of war against us non muslims. Either islam or be dominated. Death is implied!


THE VISION OF AL MUHAJIROUN:
Al-Muhajiroun activities always target the following as a matter of duty and worship to please Allah (SWT):

1. To establish public awareness in society about Islam as a belief (Aqeedah) from which emanates a complete system of life i.e. Shari'ah in order that Islam becomes the Intellectual leadership in society.

2. To create public opinion in society about Islam as a complete system of life and about the call of Al-Muhajiroun.


3. To persuade Muslims to implement Islam and to persuade non-Muslims to embrace Islam or to accept it as a political way of life and a solution for their problems.


4. To highlight the issues and the problems facing Muslims locally or globally in order to establish an Islamic bond between the community and the Ummah i.e. Muslims worldwide.


5. To create a high profile for Al-Muhajiroun to enable them to penetrate into the society and to let the whole world talk about them and their ideas in order to establish contact and links with the masses and the people of power i.e. the army.


6. To formulate a fifth column as a community pressure group which is well equipped with the Islamic culture e.g. ruling, social, economic, judicial, penal and ritual systems in order to become capable of implementing Islam fully and comprehensively in society.


7. To establish Al-Khilafah in order that Islam dominates the World (Izhaar ud-Deen) and becomes the World order.

Audio from thier site insighting Jihad

<ul><li>http://www.almuk.com/obm/audios/LIVE/khattab.rm </li><li> http://www.almuk.com/obm/audios/LIVE/victory2.rm </li><li> http://www.almuk.com/obm/audios/LIVE/narrow3.rm </li></ul>

these are just samples, why can we not arrest these guys for teason.

I find it very difficult to cut through the webs of propoganda on both sides of the Islam / Jewish / Christian controversy. I really want to be non-judgemental (its the Baptist in me) but when your read some of that crap it is really really hard not to be.
When I was in the desert I had a chance to sit in the evenings and learn to read and write some Arabic. It was cool because I was able to really form a freindhsip with the host national crew chiefs. What was even beter was the fact that I had the chance to ask some real tough political questions about their perception of America and our relations with Israel. What an eye opener. As much as I came home a changed person having learned alot I still simmer with rage when I read crap like that.
I guess we need to just nuke 'em and make a new Fenway Park with lots of parking space.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

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YGBSM !

I sent em a nasty email.

Idiots.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton

Sniper do you want me to send you the letter I recieved back from them. To long to post here but I will send out to anyone who wants to read this stuff the letter.

Basically they are the only true Muslims, and shari'ah law should rule us all.

matt it is very interesting.

What the heck I will post my initial letter, his reply and my response. It may take few post.

The first open letter I sent:

August 31, 2003
Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad,

As I look at the Al-Muhajiroun site and the pamphlet on the Magnificent 19 as an American I am greatly disturbed. My reading of your site etches in my mind that I am your enemy and have been so since your profit Mohammad gave breath to your religion, as such we can never be truly at peace according to your interpretations of the Koran. So have written this open letter you to voice both my concerns, and aspirations of just peace in which both our societies can co-exist, maybe not as friends but not as combatants bent on mutually assured genocide.
September 11, 2001 did was just one of many acts of war followers of radical Islam have carried out against humanity, in a belief that this will convert the western world to your view both politically and religiously. The American people are generally slow to anger by nature one must clearly look at the historical record here we did not involve ourselves in World War One or Two until we were provoked beyond reason.
In World War One German U-boat sank our ships without mercy and German was caught enticing the Mexican Government against us with the Zimmerman note.
In World War Two our ships at Pearl Harbor were attacked without warning, leading us to mobilize all our energies to defeat the enemy of Japan and its ally Germany.
In Korea we stood with the UN to fight back an unjust invasion that sought to devour the South as whole and fought that war to a stalemate for the first time in American history.
In Vietnam we believed we were fighting to assist a people defeat the horrors of communism but did not have the fire in our bellies that is associate with a people committed to wining. This was a true military misadventure that our politicians did not have the will to allow our soldiers to win, because there was no overwhelming threat to our nation’s survival—no knife if you will at our belly.
In the first Gulf War America sought to evict Saddam from Kuwait after he had brutally invade and subjugated the nation. One would be dishonest not to acknowledge the economic interest we have in oil as the life blood of our economy, at this stage in our technological evolution as a primary reason for coming to Kuwait’s aid. But organizations like yours have also neglected the fundamental fairness of our society once mobilized to recognize injustice; there was no justification for Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait. It should be noted that no other Muslim country rallied to Kuwait’s aid, no one of your brethren sought to end this Muslim on Muslim act of inhumanity. In fact one could argue that radical Muslims are the ultimate domestic violence family, fighting and slaughtering each other at will. Uniting only when challenged by an outside force to end the insanity.
The knife is at our belly again as it was in World War Two, as historical lesson you should look beyond Vietnam and directly at World War Two and a motivated society, that was willing to get dirty to survive. This is not Somalia where we had a president with out the political will to fight, and left the Muslim world with the view that America was soft. While we regret the death of every American, we have paid much higher prices for freedom in the past. And have exacted much heavier casualties in order to secure that freedom when it is clearly threatened for example Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki to name a few. I mention these barbaric but necessary incidents to clearly state we have gotten dirty to secure our freedoms, when no other alternative has been available. Do not think martyrs following your rhetoric cannot back us into a very ugly corner.
What distresses me and my countrymen the most is that prior to being deposed Saddam a Muslim had slaughter millions of Muslims and was given a free pass. He was deposed by in infidel army in your mind, so you rally to him and the

Part two of my first letter:

dirty to secure our freedoms, when no other alternative has been available. Do not think martyrs following your rhetoric cannot back us into a very ugly corner.
What distresses me and my countrymen the most is that prior to being deposed Saddam a Muslim had slaughter millions of Muslims and was given a free pass. He was deposed by in infidel army in your mind, so you rally to him and the Bathe party. This is a man who slaughtered thousand by using nerve gas, mustard gas, and had desire to own nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons that threatened both your devote enemy Israel and the bordering Islamic states. Lets get real here Saddam killed far more Iranians, Kurds, and Shiites than Jews during his reign. But he was a Muslim from a Muslim country and westerners who were threatened by his instability had no right to remove him. According to your logic a Muslim can never be evil, commit evil, or warrant removal by non-Muslim.
I am proud to be from a country that was based upon God given rights, but not ruled by a religion. I am proud to have the right to free thought, religion, per suite of my individual vision of happiness as long as I do no harm to society, and above all my right to disagree with you. My right to disagree with Koran is fundamental in my country, but it does not give me the right to forcefully see to bring about your conversion to my religion. What my nation does give me is the right to free cast seeds of my religion to like-minded believers who are receptive to hearing and through their free will make a choice. This is where you and I part company dramatically I do not view religion as a political system, view religion as the moral foundation that guides my political choices. As such my religion must peacefully co-exist with you as a Muslim, the Jew across the street, the Buddhist in China town, and even with the town atheist. A desire to have theocracy that rules to stifle freedom of thought and religion only destroys society as a whole in my view. I have not been able to find one example of a truly functional Islamic society that is prosperous and at peace with itself. In Iran the college students are arrested and beaten for daring to question the society in which they live. In Syrian from where I understand you began life many of your people have sought exile in the west. Exile in order to freely discuss your view on radical Islam, which would probably lead to your incarceration or death in your native countries. So you and your followers seek to destroy working societies and model them after despotic states that stifle intellectual growth and development out of fear for your own power base. There was no moral basis for the Taliban, a group of thugs who hijacked your religion to justify the oppression of women.

part 3 of my letter:

Today our societies sit at a crossroads your Magnificent 19 and weapons of mass destruction are road one. That road leads to mutually assured genocide. A road in which one martyr seeks to enter in to the gates of heaven while taking out those like me who fundamentally disagree with Islam as personal religious choice but harbor no ill will towards your right to believe what you believe. A road that leave nations like the United States and Great Britain at loss to peacefully co-exist with your espoused views, because to protect our society as whole we must remove the cancer associated with your magnificent 19. Which in turn leads your followers to become instant enemies of our nations because we as non-Muslims have no right to attack a Muslim or Muslim nation in self defense. At some point a martyr will resort to chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons in some form to carry out his mission, when he does the cries from our society for swift and merciless revenge will occur the martyr’s weapon will be effective but limited. The weapon our society will demand will be hundreds of times more devastating than any martyr can possibly dream of unleashing. For the first time since the end of the cold war weapons of mass destruction are truly discussed in terms of being used. An Islamic martyr kills all of New York with a weapon; we kill all of Middle East. This is not a road rational people should seek to travel. We should work to remove the terrorist cancers, and mutually assure both our rights to our beliefs.
The second road is one in which I as an American hope we can travel. A road in which the Iraqi and Afghani people free of their governments can form peaceful just government based upon their conscious. Governments that respect the will of the people to live in peace and exercise their right to pursue their personal vision of happiness. Governments that if based on Islam return to the Glory days of Islam as leaders in Math, Healthcare, and Science. Islamic states that truly work providing people dignity, and freedom to accept or reject Islam in their hearts as long as they do not seek to harm the society through violence. I guess what I am saying is that they become countries that respect a person’s free will. If not we will continue down the first road to world of misery and death beyond which no knows the final out come, but one could surmise based on current technology the Islamic states that sponsor these Magnificent 19 could be theoretically wiped from the planet by anyone of the world powers United States, Russia, China, France, or Great Britain in response to an attack using weapons of mass destruction for martyrdom. Lets stop this game of death, come to terms, and create a just peace.

Matthew ********
************* Scambled my name and email for forum post

The sites webmaster reply:

I am not the person who you had addressed your letter to (namely Sheikh
Omar Bakri Muhammad), however I would like to reply to your letter,
however due to the large amount of letters we are currently receiving I
will have to be brief.

I would like to begin by declaring the there is no god except GOD, and
that Muhammad (saw) is the messenger of God. This means that we as
Muslims must reject and nullify all other things, persons or ideals and
affirm belief only in the one Creator. We cannot accept our own ration
or our desires as a source of legislation or rule, nor allow a man to be
named 'god' or 'commander' as the basis of the belief in Islam, is that
there is NO Commander except God, no provider except God, no legislator
except God. And anyone who associates with him anyone or anything or any
constitution is committing the biggest crime and there is no forgiveness
for him, and cannot claim to be Muslim. However that does not
necessarily mean that we are the ones to punish him, that is left to God
in the hereafter or if he wishes, in this life as well. However the
crimes in society such as theft, murder, rape, paedophilia etc are all
punishable under Law, this includes Saddam Hussein, he is punishable
under Shari'ah, his crime is not development of WMD, but his crimes are
clear, and for the very criteria I had stated above he WAS NOT Muslim.
Islam is not a badge or ticket, cheaply bought for a few pence, it is
earned by declaring that there is none worthy of
worship/obedience/submission except God, and Muhammad (saw) is his
messenger, this declared with the tongue, whilst believed in the heart,
and is practised willingly. It has many negations, the most clear is to
associate with God. For this reason every leader in the world today who
claims to be Muslim, and yet challenges God in his Rule by ruling from
his mind and desires is NOT Muslim. Not Saddam, nor King Fahd (of
Saudi), nor Musharraf (of Pakistan), nor the rulers of Iran and Turkey
nor any other Muslim Country.

The Muslims are linked only by their belief we do not except any of the
borders in the world, Syria is not a country, it is within the Muslim
Lands, any 'nation' is rejected, we consider any Muslim to be our
brother/sister to the exclusion of all non-muslims. To condemn the
governments and society of any of those cuontries has no implication on
us nor on Islam, as they are not ruled by Islam but by man-made law, in
fact it has reflection on the west as it is their policies and
constitutions that they adhere to.

The Qur'an declares clearly that "there is no compulsion in the Deen
(way of life of Islam)." [EMQ Chapter 2: 256]. Any claim that Muslims
wish to 'force' people to become Muslim is unfounded and deceitful, you
will not find ANY Muslim who would dare to claim so, contradicting the
Qur'an. Sheikh Usama Bin Laden never claimed so nor Sheikh Omar Bakri
Muhammad. Our site is quite clear on this issue if you were to read
through it carefully. In fact Islam does not accept the Islam of the one
who embraces Islam under duress, until he does so when he is free.

It is an unjust comparison to equate Jihad to the christian crusades,
where people were killed and raped unless they converted, I am not
suggesting that you condone such actions but, it is unfair to accuse
Muslims of similar action because of the dark history of Europe. It is
quite clear that the jihad occurring throughout the world today is
purely out of Self Defence, you listed and justified murder and war
after war of the American war machine, yet you ignore that for years the
US has bombed with no provocation in Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia,
it has armed forces in ever Muslim Country in the world and stands by
its own arrogant justification. America continues to occupy the Muslims
today and for years with nothing but hatred and anger towards them, why
do you claim to fight in defence, yet you do not afford us the same
right? It is without any doubt that if USA would take away their forces
and puppets from the Muslim Lands, and ended their animosity to Islam
and Muslims, that the current Jihad would stop against USA.

On Saddam, I must again clarify that he was not and IS not a Muslim,
because to hold yourself above or equal to God in legislation takes you
out of the fold of Islam, we will never support him or the ba'ath party
unless they repent and take back Islam, leaving behind their old
religion of communism. You quoted the heavy casualties from the regime
of Saddam, yet you forget that in the current war in Iraq, already MORE
people have been killed in the past few months than was killed through
decades by Saddam, it is only patriotism that fuels your support for the
USA not any idea of justice or love for the Iraqi people. Further, the
deaths at the hands of Saddam were performed for the interests of the
USA and the West, not for the Muslims, do you forget that Saddam was put
into power by the US, it is not the job of the criminals to police their
own crimes, nor to IMPOSE your way of life, upon the Muslims, who
believe that the only legislator is God, we will never accept Democracy
to rule over us. Rather we want Shari'ah implemented, where people live
happily in justice, whether Muslim or non-Muslim. It is clear that there
is NO Islamic State in the world today, nor are there any governments
currently aspiring to be so, rather we only have Muslims working for the
establishment of Al Khilafah, the Islamic State. And the whole world
against us.

If you want an example of the Islamic State, you must look to our
prosperous history, for 1302 years from the time of the messenger
Muhammad (saw) til 1924, the Islamic state ruled in justice, and
Muslims, Jews, Christians, hindus etc lived happily together without the
injustice found in the west today, why do we find the Racism most
rampant in the west? Because it is ruled by man-made law, and whenever
law is made by man, it is prey to their desires and bias.

To close I would like to invite you to Islam, to believe that there is
no god except God, and that Muhammad (saw) is the Messenger of Allah.

- Mizaan
Webteam
www.almuhajiroun.com

this is my reply to webmaster guys did I miss anything.

September 1, 2003

Dear Mizaan,

First off as man raised as a Christian, I reject Islam and Islamic law as the basis foundation for my life, even after reading your obviously heartfelt factually incorrect letter. This is my right and as is it your right to use Islam as the foundation of your life. We both have God given right to choose our belief structure, with in the norms of our society. In our nation we were formed with the belief that God or a our Creator gave us basic human rights, but we do not prescribe a religious camp from which the creator arises as means of creating uniformity throughout our nation.
I will not deny that the Christian Crusade were in humane, barbaric, and lacking any foundation in morality. I will even go so far as to stipulate that Christianity was used as a religion to consolidate political power, and enforce conformity over various ethnically diverse cultures. Much in the same way the profit Mohammad used Islam to create conformity in the Muslim Lands. Or the Ottoman Empire used Islam as a glue to bind together diverse cultures with in their lands. It is intellectually dishonest for you to come to the table and state Islam has never sought to convert persons by force or face death. It is intellectually dishonest for you to state that Muslims have never slaughtered women and children who were not of the Islamic faith. We need to be honest here all the major religions of the world have a one point and time been corrupted to form a foundation for political rule.
Your belief in Shari ‘ah law as the supreme legislative force with in your envisioned Islamic state that respects no boards and denies Syria as country, precludes our children growing in peace if not harmony. From your letter it is clearly stated that non-Muslims can live in justice in your world only under Shari ‘ah, which we must patently reject as being in compatible with our religious or moral convictions. We also must look closely at Shari ‘ah and a Muslims rights to convert to Christianity or Judaism, these things are expressly forbidden. Depending upon individual scholar interpretations of a Muslim under Shari ‘ah law conversion to Christianity or any other religion can carry the penalty of death. The unwillingness of your group to accept national boarders clearly shows a belief that world wide application of Shari ‘ah law is your goal.
Saddam claimed to be a Muslim and used his loose if not justified ties to Islam to endear his nation to your group. According to you no national leader is a Muslim in this world, my question is Sheikh Usama Bin Laden a Muslim. How does his sanctioning of the killing of Jews, Christians, and other worldwide that are not part of an identifiable military force justified? How does the senseless slaughter of 3000 plus civilians on September 11, 2001 conform to this religious law you wish to subjugate my nation and others to? How does the cowardly act of specifically, not as part of collateral damage, blowing up a civilian targets become acceptable under you law? How does the slaughter of hundreds of people in Najaff with a car bombing near a mosque become acceptable under your law? How does the rampant slaughter between Sunni and Shiite factions conform to your religious law?
Intellectually one could make a great argument that Islam has been hijacked for political power by divers groups yours included, with each group calling the other a non-Muslim deserving of death. This is the ultimate dysfunctional family. The dysfunction of this family is why the west is constantly involved in trying to save you guys from your selves. In Somalia you had a warlord starving his people and committing genocide that is why we entered into that conflict. In Sudan you have nation that has harbored terrorist organizations such as Al Qada that have killed both American soldiers and civilians. In Afghanistan you have people who harbored your beloved Usama bin Laden who freely admits his complicity in both the September 11, 2001 and 1993 World Trade Center Attacks, as such they have allied themselves with our enemy. The Taliban were given every opportunity to give us Usama, they did not and have chosen their fate. It is also intellectually dishonest for you to claim we have killed more than Saddam in this war. One could argue if it was not for the impotence of the Muslims who state your hatred of Saddam to remove him from power, and end the WMD programs the west would have had no need to fear him. It is this fear of his stated desires to own weapons of mass destruction that prompted his removal.
I guess as an American I would like your organization to be intellectually honest and admit there is plenty of blame to go around. Understanding that we have both the rights to our beliefs, and understanding a world subjugated under Shari ‘ah law is incompatible with my right to pursue both my religious beliefs and my personal vision of happiness. Someone’s vision of the world will win out, I personally hope my does. But giving you the benefit of the doubt what would be my fate under your vision of Shari’ ah law if I continue both to live my life as I do today and reject Islamic laws supremacy in my life. Be honest my friend, because your answer will lead you to the reason why the west and the world is against you.
This letter is written in search of peaceful exchange of thoughts and concepts, to determine if we can co-exist.

Matthew *********** Scrambled name and email for forum post

Personally, i would've just suggested he eat broken glass and die, but that's why i'm not a diplomat i suppose.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton

Ok sniper pack your bags we want you to go to Korea and negociate the next part of the disarment treaty.

Oh.....I WOULD be honored.

Tell the guys to zero their weapons and pack their skivies.

Gonna be a cold winter occupying Pyongyang.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton

Yeah. Your e-mail to them had me laughing so hard my chest hurt. Bon Appetite. <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

"No, Russia is the world's second superpower, they won't fall so easily, so cut the crap." --Black Eagle Force

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LOL, i was only being truthful Luna.

Honesty is always the best policy, no?



"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton

Now more than ever I'm glad to be an American. On America's side. Your comment about the victory feast.

Has me thinking that The Acolyets, Farooq & Bradshaw (Ron Simmons & John Laynard) Would be tougher to beat. And eat thier livers? Not exactly grade a quality, I'm sure. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

"No, Russia is the world's second superpower, they won't fall so easily, so cut the crap." --Black Eagle Force

_________________

We will properly season them first.

Their innards will make a feast worthy of a king.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
We will properly season them first.

Their innards will make a feast worthy of a king.

"If we are not victorious, let no man return alive."

Gen George S. Patton
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

They'd be the main course. It just wouldn't be a meal without any <b>French Whine</b>!

Moderator World Affairs Board.
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/

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