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It's about time.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> It's about time.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Agreed.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

After Iraq unless there's another shooting fight i want our kids HOME in CONUS.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan

In S. Korea, I'd keep the F-16 squadrons, A-10 squadron, Apache squadrons, counter-fire artillery, and air defense artillery in place, and move everything else out. The logistics infrastructure should be maintained so that we can easily slide in and sustain several divisions in the event of a conflict. And a battalion-size force should rotate through S. Korea to serve as a trip wire (out of arty range but present to make clear to the DPRK that any attack will be an attack against the U.S.)

In Japan, I'd move out the F-15C wing, but keep the F-16CJ wing. In Guam, I'd rotate bombers, and keep basing submarines there as PACAF and PACFLT want.

In Europe, I'd keep the F-16CJ wing, A-10 squadron, and Landsthul center in Germany, and the F-15E wing in England, but move V Corps back to the U.S. And I'd consider moving the F-16s and A-10s out of Germany to another location. I think we have to keep some ground combat force in Germany to appease NATO, so an Armor brigade or Stryker brigade would be kept there. SETAF is fine I think.

A new base should be established in Bulgaria in E. Europe. I would station only a garrison force there; no ground combat forces or aircraft. However, the garrison would maintain facilities so that ground forces or aircraft could stage and deploy there when we wanted. Same with Kyrgyzstan.

Turkey's government is tricky but the location is attractive. Frankly, after denying the 4th ID passage, I say forget em'.




Edited by - ViperTTB on Jun 07 2004 3:44 PM

Bombers in Guam, definitely, and another KC unit. Or send us more planes here at Kadena!

Other than that, large-scale force removal from nK? No no no no no.... Wait until Kim dies first. It won't be long. We've already been waiting 40 years, we can wait a little longer. That plan is far superior to us pulling out a bunch of troops, leading Kim to cross the DMZ. The dude's crazy, he'll do it. He'll get his patooty kicked, but not before he causes a lot of death and destruction that just isn't necessary.

The nutjob of North Korea is 62, and daddy whacko lasted into his eighties, so we've got at least another 15-20 years on Our Dear Loony. Even at that, he's noted as having three kids, each by a different mother, so who knows what craziness will follow him.

Despite this, I dig the rockin' khaki jacket and slacks combo, along with the platform shoes and sunglasses he wears. His hair, even Elvis would envy. I feel inspired to set the trend here in the States.

<img src="http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/dictators/kim-jong-il/kim_jong_il_smile.jpg" border=0><img src="http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/dictators/kim-jong-il/kim_jong_il_outside.jpg" border=0>


Talk about <i><b>HOT!</b></i>


I don't just think outside the box...I turn it inside out with my mind.

Edited by - Horrido on Jun 07 2004 5:52 PM

I wouldn't leave squat in S.Korea except for a barebones maintenaince and security detail to keep the current bases functional in case they're ever needed again.

All the troops come home unless there's a war or the impending sound of war, that's my idea.

Once that happens we open the floodgates like we did in ODS, and hit them with overwhelming massed firepower.

The Powell doctrine is a proven winner.

The Rumsfeld doctrine has been ah....problematic....to date.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
In S. Korea, I'd keep the F-16 squadrons, A-10 squadron, Apache squadrons, counter-fire artillery, and air defense artillery in place, and move everything else out. The logistics infrastructure should be maintained so that we can easily slide in and sustain several divisions in the event of a conflict. And a battalion-size force should rotate through S. Korea to serve as a trip wire (out of arty range but present to make clear to the DPRK that any attack will be an attack against the U.S.)

In Japan, I'd move out the F-15C wing, but keep the F-16CJ wing. In Guam, I'd rotate bombers, and keep basing submarines there as PACAF and PACFLT want.

In Europe, I'd keep the F-16CJ wing, A-10 squadron, and Landsthul center in Germany, and the F-15E wing in England, but move V Corps back to the U.S. And I'd consider moving the F-16s and A-10s out of Germany to another location. I think we have to keep some ground combat force in Germany to appease NATO, so an Armor brigade or Stryker brigade would be kept there. SETAF is fine I think.

A new base should be established in Bulgaria in E. Europe. I would station only a garrison force there; no ground combat forces or aircraft. However, the garrison would maintain facilities so that ground forces or aircraft could stage and deploy there when we wanted. Same with Kyrgyzstan.

Turkey's government is tricky but the location is attractive. Frankly, after denying the 4th ID passage, I say forget em'.




Edited by - ViperTTB on Jun 07 2004 3:44 PM
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>


What would you do with the Iceland committment?

I'd keep a skeletal base staff there, pull the Eagles home, but leave the P-3s there, just in case.

I'd do the same in Europe. Everyone but those neccesary to maintian a 'mothballed' continent would come home.

As long as the bases are kept in relatively good shape you can reinforce very quickly, the troops don't need to be in Europe either.

About the only active bases i'd maintain were those in the Stans(only because they're being used in the war on terror. Once they're not needed they go skeletal too.), and our bases in the Pacific in the immediate vicinity of China. I'd keep a sizable force forward deployed in that region.

Everywhere else, the troops come home unless there's a war on.


"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'd keep a skeletal base staff there, pull the Eagles home, but leave the P-3s there, just in case.

I'd do the same in Europe. Everyone but those neccesary to maintian a 'mothballed' continent would come home.

As long as the bases are kept in relatively good shape you can reinforce very quickly, the troops don't need to be in Europe either.

About the only active bases i'd maintain were those in the Stans(only because they're being used in the war on terror. Once they're not needed they go skeletal too.), and our bases in the Pacific in the immediate vicinity of China. I'd keep a sizable force forward deployed in that region.

Everywhere else, the troops come home unless there's a war on.


"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Tie-in question to your solution, M21:

I fully agree with having as many troops CONUS as possible. IMO, people like the South Koreans can pretty well take care of themselves.

But let's take it further....the question now would be: Where are we going to put all these people/units back in CONUS? Where would we be able to relocate the Corps from Germany to? Would the balance of 2ID in Korea join it's 3rd Brigade at Ft Lewis? Is there room to do that? Speaking of Army, would we have to place a maneuver unit(s) at bases that are currently support units (eg- Forts Huachuca, Benjamin Harrison, Monmouth, Chaffee, McClellan, Monroe, Gillem)?

The Army has been so downsized since i was in that there is plenty of unused space and facilities to bring all the forward deployed units home.

You have to remember that during the cold war the active US army was over a million men strong. The active US military was three million strong.

It's not even half that size now.





"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan

IMHO I fully agree with bringing troops home. Especially from places like Korea. Though places like england, Germany, Iceland and such have so many pretty women its a shame to leave On a serious noted though, the AOR is primarily the midle east, as such we should keep many there while downsizing everywhere else.

Yep, i agree with that.

Basicly my view is this.

America is the coffer. Unless there is war our soldiers should be in our coffers.

The moment war starts we literally empty the coffer and go to war with as much violence and fury in as many numbers as we can muster.

As soon as is realisticly possible, it's back to the coffers with everyone.



"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan

A little thread creep here.......

IMO, before we start securing Iraq's or Kuwait's or Korea's border, we ought have our military securing OUR OWN border with Mexico. THAT should be our number one priority.

I agree 100% T7.

Everytime i read about a Mexican military cross-border raid i feel like flying to the Texas border and doing some remedial sniper training.

The amazing part is that the media can't even be bothered to report these incidents.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I agree 100% T7.

Everytime i read about a Mexican military cross-border raid i feel like flying to the Texas border and doing some remedial sniper training.

The amazing part is that the media can't even be bothered to report these incidents.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Couple of years back, a Border Patrol agent saw some military Humvees along with a couple of civilian vehicles near the border on the US side. Thinking it was US Army, he went to go check them out. Turns out, it was Mexican Army escorting a drug shipment, and the Humvee crews shot up his Bronco pretty bad. Luckily he wasn't injured. This happened on the US SIDE of the border in New Mexico and Arizona. What part of "act of war" aren't the people of this country understanding? BP agents were told not to talk about this, and I don't think anything has been done about it.

Tell me what you think of this: IMO, this crap seriously pisses me off. <b>We need to be taking care of this crap LONG before we worry about Korea/Kuwait/Iraq's borders. Secure our own house before we begin worrying about everyone else's</b>

In the first article, you'll see this passage:

<i>Homemade road sign outside of Douglas, Ariz., erected by local ranchers protesting what they perceive as lax federal border policies. </i>

I've personally seen that sign. It reads: "If this were Scottsdale, the National Guard would be here now;" obviously referring to Douglas, AZ not being nearly as affluent as Scottsdale, Arizona.


http://www.rense.com/general5/mex.htm

http://www.ranchrescue.com/maupin.htm

http://www.vdare.com/francis/border_problems.htm

Evan- you want style? Try some pimp:

<img src="http://www.edodo.org/2004/06/jadedmajor-score.jpg" border=0>

I can do dat, just don't know if I can do da moves...

PS...Is that a real poster? I want one...seriously.

I don't just think outside the box...I turn it inside out with my mind.

Edited by - Horrido on Jun 09 2004 12:52 AM

Sorry, it's a 'toon on edodo. Go to http://www.edodo.org and flip through the current issue to find it. Although, maybe I should suggest to the webmaster to sell it as a poster to raise funds for the site...

And, I think it takes the whole ensemble to get the Blue Honeys and Hos. Moves AND threads.

LMAO! Destined to be a classic, Poke!<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Live every day like it's the last, 'cause one day you're gonna be right!" Ray Charles

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson