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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2005, 10:10 
HOTRODDERS: We often see the "10lbs is the equivelant to 1HP" claim on websites or in magazines, but that is very misleading. The truth is there is no one weight that = 1 hp, it is a matter of power to weight ratio, and the "weight" part of the equation is a floating value.

As a public service message to the board i have typed up the following explanation to help people understand what's at play, and to more accuately estimate just how much weight really does = 1 HP for their application.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no one 'right' answer as to how much HP you
gain from weight savings, as it is a floating number
based on power-to-weight ratio. For instance, here is
a couple examples to show what i'm talking about:

Vehicle A, 1000lbs gvw, 300hp
Power to weight ratio: 3.33lb/hp

Vehicle B, 2000lbs gvw, 300hp
Power to weight ratio: 6.66lb/hp

Vehicle C, 3000lbs gvw, 300hp
Power to weight ratio: 10lb/hp

Vehicle D, 4000lbs gvw, 300hp
Power to weight ratio: 13.33lb/hp

So by looking at the above chart we can see that for
vehicle A, 3.33lb = 1hp, whereas for vehicle B 6.66lb
= 1hp, for vehicle C 10lb = 1hp, and finally for
vehicle D 13.33lb = 1hp.

The US 83 928S A/T(my car) has a real world curb
weight of 3350lbs, which with a stock 234hp motor
yields a 14.32lb/HP power to weight ratio.

Let's take a 300lb reduction in weight, and figure
out the new power to weight ratio based on a stock
engine:

3350 - 300= 3050lbs / 234HP= 13.03lb per HP.

So in order to 'gain' 1hp we'd need to reduce weight by
13.03lbs. However, let's say we reduce weight by
another 200lbs, well, that changes the
power to weight ratio, and therefore changes the 1HP=
X number of pounds ratio. As i said earlier, is a constantly changing
figure.

So if we deduct another 200lbs we now have a vehicle
weight of 2850lbs, which
with the stock 234HP= a P/W ratio of 12.17lbs per HP.
So at that point 1HP will = 12.17lbs.

As can be clearly seen, as vehicle weight drops, the weight required to equal 1 hp also drops.

See it's not that we're 'adding' power by decreasing
weight, what we are doing is increasing the power to
weight ratio. So as weight is decreased it actually
requires progressively LESS weight to = 1hp.

But let's say we add a free flowing exhaust that adds us 20hp to the above mix. Now our P/W ratio in that same 2850lb 928S US car is 11.22:1.

So at that point 11.22lbs = 1hp.

We'll use my car for a final example based on my
estimates of horsepower(based on actual 1/4 mile ET of
13.67seconds) and weight(estimated at 3050lbs with no driver at the time of the run) using this simple program:

http://www.race-cars.net/calculators/ho ... lator.html

312 crank HP divided by 3050lbs(no driver)= 9.94lbs
per HP.

So for me(at that time), every 9.94lbs in weight reduction is the
equivelant to adding 1 more HP. As i decrease vehicle
weight(or increase actual HP) that value will drop
proportionately.

Hope this helps to clear that issue up for anyone interested.

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2005, 11:26 
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Joined: 17 Jun 2002, 10:29
Posts: 5935
Location: S of St Louis but in IL
What snipe is <i>trying</i> to say, is that the weight to hp ratio tells you how many pounds of vehicle each little pony is responsible for moving down the highway! And obviously the fewer pounds said pony has to push (or pull) the better your acceleration can be. (This comment is not to be confused with other aspects such as traction or control, as seen in the Cobra vid. <img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>)

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2005, 11:32 
I thought i said it pretty clearly actually. :)

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2005, 12:13 
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Posts: 5935
Location: S of St Louis but in IL
you did..I knew what you were saying. This was for the BR-types. You know, the ones that talk in liters and haven't a clue what "cubes" means in car talk. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

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\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2005, 13:03 
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Farfrompukin
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Joined: 25 Mar 2003, 12:54
Posts: 941
Location: Germany
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
you did..I knew what you were saying. This was for the BR-types. You know, the ones that talk in liters and haven't a clue what "cubes" means in car talk. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

<img src=newicons/anim_cussing.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/madani.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/pain10.gif border=0 align=middle>

... and I tried so hard to understand the antimetric system!
<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Did you know? You can use your old motor oil to fertilize your lawn! -- Environmental Protection Agency."

http://www.reelwavs.com/movies/dumb_and ... dumb13.wav

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2005, 05:47 
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Joined: 17 Jun 2002, 10:29
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Location: S of St Louis but in IL
Approx. 61 cu. in to the liter. So, a 5.7 liter TransAm would roughly equate to the 350 Chevy block.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2005, 07:59 
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Joined: 25 Jan 2003, 16:49
Posts: 970
Location: G-14 Classified
None of this really matters when my twin Hp 72mm Turbos is pushing the Cobra past 900 Hp. Their is a big differnce from 780-900Hp (700lbs torque) in a 3200lb Car. A car that has Dual over head stage4 cams and 9000RPM springs before the valves start floating.

The Look on a Camaro SS's face as his windshield shatters.....

Priceless!

"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see their near and dear bathed in tears, to ride their horses and sleep on the white bellies of their wives and daughters."
-Genghis Khan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2005, 09:06 
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Location: S of St Louis but in IL
So, you're saying your windshield is made of bullett proof laminate?<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2005, 10:40 
" Approx. 61 cu. in to the liter."

60.5 cubes to the liter. :)

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2005, 12:03 
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Joined: 17 Jun 2002, 10:29
Posts: 5935
Location: S of St Louis but in IL
Rounding up to a little more power never hurts.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2005, 14:34 
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Joined: 25 Jan 2003, 16:49
Posts: 970
Location: G-14 Classified
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
So, you're saying your windshield is made of bullett proof laminate?<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>


Some chump tried to race me and cut me off on a road that was cut down to a single lane construction. Not wanting to end up in the irrigation Ditch with my 5 year old daughter. I punched it, he faded in the rearview mirror..He ate the rocks my car was kicking up.

Being a Lawdog. That would of been the last mistake he ever took by initiating any reprisal for his lack Brains.

"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see their near and dear bathed in tears, to ride their horses and sleep on the white bellies of their wives and daughters."
-Genghis Khan

_________________
\"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. \"

George S. Patton


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2005, 15:13 
" None of this really matters when my twin Hp 72mm Turbos is pushing the Cobra past 900 Hp. "

It still matters.

Cut 500lbs off your car, it would feel as if you'd added another <b>141 HP</b>, because in effect, that's exactly what you'd have done.

All about the power to weight ratio. :)

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2005, 15:19 
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Joined: 25 Jan 2003, 16:49
Posts: 970
Location: G-14 Classified
Production sedans that sit as high as mine off the road dont exactly stay on the road at those Hp levels. Id need to drop it another 6 inches pushing 1000HP the weight keeps her on the road.

Why would i want another 141HP anyways? It is there if need by the turn of a Knob? there are only 2 cars in my state that are in my league and ive beat both. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
" None of this really matters when my twin Hp 72mm Turbos is pushing the Cobra past 900 Hp. "

It still matters.

Cut 500lbs off your car, it would feel as if you'd added another <b>141+ HP.</b>

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see their near and dear bathed in tears, to ride their horses and sleep on the white bellies of their wives and daughters."
-Genghis Khan

_________________
\"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. \"

George S. Patton


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2005, 18:19 
"Why would i want another 141HP anyways? It is there if need by the turn of a Knob? there are only 2 cars in my state that are in my league and ive beat both."

And if the car was ligher there would be that much more there at the knob, and the car would be 141hp faster at any boost setting.

Or you could back off 140lbs of boost, and be just as fast, and your motor would last a lot longer. :)

Getting lighter also greatly enhances handling and braking.

Lower the car... <img src=newicons/saevil.gif border=0 align=middle>

<b>There are two kinds of soldiers.
Snipers...and targets.</b>
<img src="http://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/SA9121-M21.JPG" border=0>


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