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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2006, 12:36 
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http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-84805 ... idget-news


Two days of basic training in Hampton means trading in wings for guns and ground combat - just in case.
BY JIM HODGES
247-4633
July 27, 2006
LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE -- It's a this-is-a-Humvee lesson, given because the Air Force doesn't have them, and the students are getting down to the basics.

You don't get much more basic than changing a tire.

Shots ring out.

Ambush!

Everyone freezes. Adrenaline rushes.

"C'mon!" yells Tech. Sgt. Jeremy Cassady, "let's get the tire changed!"

Hands tremble. A wheel lug becomes a moving target. "Let's go! Let's go!"

LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE

It was Wednesday at Langley Air Force Base, and if the 38 students' attention spans had been flagging in the heat, they were piqued in a hurry.

War is like that, and this was an object lesson, one of many compressed into 16 hours of instruction mandated by Air Combat Command. Two years ago, ACC began to understand that some airmen and women were finding themselves in Iraq, wondering what all the shooting was about.

From that sprang Expeditionary Combat Skills, a two-day basic training that has at its core an understanding that the war in Iraq is one that has no front or rear and that computer technicians or supply clerks can wind up shooting at people.

And being shot at.

"The Army has done this all along: 'I'm an infantryman first, and I have technical expertise second,' " said Tech. Sgt. Matt Barresi, the noncommissioned officer in charge of the school. " 'I'm a trigger-puller first, and everything comes second.' That mindset is one we've had to adopt."

It's a matter of self-defense but also one of understanding that job definitions blur in this war.

On the north side of the base, where Langley's firefighters normally practice, a group of 10 men and two women in green uniforms and vests, carrying rifles with red flash-suppressors clipped to their barrels, hit the ground on command, then rolled.

Then they split, and a group of five on the right side got up and started to move. They were practicing sweeping an area, a move more in the job description of a Marine or an Army infantryman.

Hardly an airman.

"Searching and clearing buildings, I don't know that any of us are doing that over there right now," Barresi said. "But I do know that we got thrown into the whole convoy mission, and there are solid Air Force folks doing convoys there now."

The prospect of convoy duty and providing security in gun trucks in Iraq has changed the mindset of the Air Force.

"This is Army training," said Master Sgt. Charles Dickens from Shelter Island, N.Y., standing in the shade of a tree during a break. "We're training to be ground troops, I guess, and it's new to us old-timers."

He has 21 years in the service.

"Twenty-one years ago, we had a Warrior Day," he said. "One day you're crawling in the dirt, firing the weapon and all of that stuff."

Now he has two more days of it and understands why.

"Any one of us could be doing it," said Dickens, who works in logistics. "We could be going to the rear. We could be driving a vehicle, marching along with a convoy."

Weapons training, including the AK-47 most popular with insurgents the world over, is handled in an hour. Students are shown how to load a weapon and take the safety cap off.

"The idea isn't to make you expert at the 240, the 249 and the 203," Barresi said, rattling off a list of weapons. "But if this is the only thing standing between you getting killed or getting captured, and your primary weapon isn't functioning or you're out of ammo, you can at least take that weapon and employ it."

Improvised explosive devices - roadside bombs - are explained in an hour. A military lawyer tells them how far they can go if they have a prisoner. They are taught how to crawl under fire and learn that the canteen goes on the side or on the back, not on the front.

"Some students come into this because it's something to be checked off on their deployment checklist," Barresi said of Page 2, Item 9 on a form he has signed hundreds of times.

"But this knowledge can be the difference in your getting killed."

That's repeated over and over again, but it probably doesn't have to be. The students' attention is focused in the first few minutes of the first day when they see a slide show of a young woman smiling, playing with a child and her friends and family, playing with a softball team.

Airman Elizabeth N. Jacobson of Riviera Beach, Fla., was killed in a convoy on Sept. 28, 2005.

"It's been a real eye-opener the last two days," said Staff Sgt. Rachel Gray.

"I teared up. She was holding what looked like her son, and I'm a single parent. I have a 2-year-old daughter, Kaylie."

Paying attention for two days for her was certainly no problem.



The Second Amendment: America's original homeland security.
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PostPosted: 28 Jul 2006, 08:49 
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TWO WHOLE DAYS?? wow, thats only about 70 days less than the ABSOLUTE minimum for being less than bottom of the barrel worthless in a firefight... hell we spent nearly two weeks in basic just learning to fire our M-16s... a proper field training excercise is 48 hours, and you get to sleep maybe 4-6 hours of that (if your lucky and can sleep in MOPP gear.


"Weapons training, including the AK-47 most popular with insurgents the world over, is handled in an hour. Students are shown how to load a weapon and take the safety cap off."

While an hour would be OK for AK47 familiarization, this statement and the following indicate that the M240, M249 and M203 are included plus who knows what else, thats 15 min. each at best. And they need to retain this how long?


"Improvised explosive devices - roadside bombs - are explained in an hour."

you've got to be kidding me...


Now I understand, you AF guys are a whole lot different in job duties from us groundpounders... but my comments are based on a very limited description from a pretty basic article. You could spend 2 or 3 weeks on this kind of training and still be completely or near completely ineffective in a firfight. I really thought you guys got more than this prior to deplyment already.



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PostPosted: 28 Jul 2006, 10:41 
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Maybe a few flyboys about to be deployed as infantry can be weeded out by a trick question/test such as..asking them individually how long it'd take to clean off a muddy Kalishnakov to the point that it'd be operable.

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PostPosted: 28 Jul 2006, 14:22 
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At least their getting some training, hell while stationed in Bagram I had troops who couldn't even Load, Safe, or Clear an M-16. I couldn't believe it and when I questioned them they told me that during weapons training (at basic) it was raining that day so they just handed them their qualification.

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PostPosted: 28 Jul 2006, 22:32 
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We had are weapons training,

In the WOODS around EAFB, most of us Hunted or had Weapons that we'd go and Shoot at the "Range Area" or the Clearings where someone had put an old truck,washer,etc.... and marked off the distance.
I think I must of Shot others weapons like they fired mine,
I had my Carbine ,guys would show-up with AR-15's AK-47's,M-14's etc.....Every Handgun you could think of.
The Clearing of an area was "Sneaking up to take a Shot at a BUCK,
Firing on the GO was Chasing TREE RATS, an handling an AMBUSH was coming up on a WILD BOAR THAT WAS SLEEPING! You SHOT OR RAN!
he was MAD AS HELL THAN!!!!!!!
Growing-up was Playing in over 1000's of Acres of Farm Land,ditches,creeks,paths,trees etc... playing ARMY, AMBUSHING the Kids that lived over on the next ROAD.

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I know now for a FACT that Truth is Stranger than Fiction and IT CAN ALWAYS BE WORST!

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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2006, 11:28 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
We had are weapons training,

In the WOODS around EAFB, most of us Hunted or had Weapons that we'd go and Shoot at the "Range Area" or the Clearings where someone had put an old truck,washer,etc.... and marked off the distance.
I think I must of Shot others weapons like they fired mine,
I had my Carbine ,guys would show-up with AR-15's AK-47's,M-14's etc.....Every Handgun you could think of.
The Clearing of an area was "Sneaking up to take a Shot at a BUCK,
Firing on the GO was Chasing TREE RATS, an handling an AMBUSH was coming up on a WILD BOAR THAT WAS SLEEPING! You SHOT OR RAN!
he was MAD AS HELL THAN!!!!!!!
Growing-up was Playing in over 1000's of Acres of Farm Land,ditches,creeks,paths,trees etc... playing ARMY, AMBUSHING the Kids that lived over on the next ROAD.

Goose

I know now for a FACT that Truth is Stranger than Fiction and IT CAN ALWAYS BE WORST!




<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Well there's that as well as the biography about Carlos Hathcock, which said that going out in the woods and hunting things put him at the level required to be a sharpshooter by Marine Corps Standards, which he got in Boot.

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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2006, 12:39 
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Thats why I think so many Ground Pounders from the South and Midwest do pretty good plus folks anywhere who lived in the country.
Sgt York, Audie Murphy, etc... were all Country ,poor by some measure and had to Hunt and fish for Food.
Alot of these Young Guys today maybe not "Dirt POOR" but still hunt and fish growing up.
That was and is just part of growning up in the Country, Farming and taking time to do Hunting and fishing in ANY WEATHER.
Alot of the members here had the same type of up bringing, The Folks from the City have the "URBAN advantage" surivial in the City.
It takes all types.

Goose

I know now for a FACT that Truth is Stranger than Fiction and IT CAN ALWAYS BE WORST!

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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2006, 11:08 
I've been saying for a long time that USAF types should get much better tactical and weapons training.

If a fella is not familiar with base of fire, bound and overwatch, flank security, OPs, etc, and they can't properly employ their weaponry to boot, then there is zero chance of a succesful perimeter defense against a determined foe.

Oh, and do NOT use OIL in the DESERT OR ARCTIC. Dry lubes only people...

Just ask those poor fucks from the 507th at Nassiriyah.

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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2006, 11:55 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Thats why I think so many Ground Pounders from the South and Midwest do pretty good plus folks anywhere who lived in the country.
Sgt York, Audie Murphy, etc... were all Country ,poor by some measure and had to Hunt and fish for Food.
Alot of these Young Guys today maybe not "Dirt POOR" but still hunt and fish growing up.
That was and is just part of growning up in the Country, Farming and taking time to do Hunting and fishing in ANY WEATHER.
Alot of the members here had the same type of up bringing, The Folks from the City have the "URBAN advantage" surivial in the City.
It takes all types.

Goose

I know now for a FACT that Truth is Stranger than Fiction and IT CAN ALWAYS BE WORST!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Well one thing on my to do list is be an embedded photographer in a combat zone or at least a flash point.

And I'm to sure if it's just arrogant, or having faith in my ability to shoot that makes me wonder if I'd get bounced out on such a spot for breaking the rule of civilians not being allowed to carry weapons, but not before giving someone shooting at the troops I'm embedded with a case of lead poisoning.

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