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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2006, 15:09 
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http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006 ... shtml?s=ic

Oh hell no. This is B/S.

Monday, Aug. 21, 2006 11:21 p.m. EDT
Implanted Chips in Our Troops?

A Florida company wants to get under the skin of 1.4 million U.S. servicemen and women.

VeriChip Corp, based in Delray Beach, Fla., and described by the D.C. Examiner as "one of the most aggressive marketers of radio frequency identification chips," is hoping to convince the Pentagon to allow them to insert the chips, known as RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) chips under the skin of the right arms of U.S. servicemen and servicewomen to enable them to scan an arm and obtain that person’s identity and medical history. The chips would replace the legendary metal dog tags that have been worn by U.S. military personnel since 1906.

The device is usually implanted above the triceps area of an individual’s right arm, but can also by implanted in the hand if scanned at the proper frequency. The VeriChip responds with a unique 16-digit number, which can correlate the user to information stored on a database for identity verification, medical records access, and other uses. The insertion procedure is performed under local anesthetic, and once inserted it is invisible to the naked eye.

The company, which the Examiner notes has powerful political connections, is "in discussions” with the Pentagon, VeriChip spokeswoman Nicole Philbin told the Examiner. "The potential for this technology doesn’t just stop at the civilian level,” Philbin said. Company officials have touted the chips as versatile, able to be used in a variety of situations such as helping track illegal immigrants or giving doctors immediate access to patient’s medical records.

On Monday the Department of State started to issue electronic passports (e-passports) equipped with RFID chips. According to reports the U.S. government has placed an order with a California company, Infineon Technologies North America, for smart chip-embedded passports.


The Associated Press said the new U.S. passports include an electronic chip that contains all the data contained in the paper version name, birth date, gender, for example and can be read by digital scanners at equipped airports. They cost 14 percent more than their predecessors but the State Department said they will speed up going through Customs and help enhance border security.

The company's hefty political clout is typified by having former secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, Tommy Thompson, on its board of directors.

Thompson assured the Examiner that the chip is safe and that no one — not even military personnel, who are required by law to follow orders — will be forced to accept an implant against his or her will. He has also promised to have a chip implanted in himself but could not tell the Examiner when.

"I’m extremely busy and I’m waiting until my hospitals and doctors are able to run some screens," he told the newspaper.

Not everybody agrees with Thompson, the Examiner reported, noting that the idea of implanting the chips in live bodies has some veterans’ groups and privacy advocates worried.


"It needs further study,” Joe Davis, a retired Air Force major and a spokesman for the D.C. office of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, told the Examiner.

And Liz McIntyre, co-author with Katherine Albrecht of "Spychips: How Major Corporations and Government Plan to Track your Every Move with RFID," said that VeriChip is "a huge threat” to public privacy.

"They’re circling like vultures for any opportunity to get into our flesh,” McIntyre told the Examiner. "They’ll start with people who can’t say no, like the elderly, sex offenders, immigrants, and the military. Then they’ll come knocking on our doors.”

In an e-mail to the Examiner, Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., wrote: "If that is what the Defense Department has in mind for our troops in Iraq, there are many questions that need answers. "What checks and balances, safeguards, and congressional oversight would there be?” Leahy asked. "What less-invasive alternatives are there? What information would be entered on the chips, and could it endanger our soldiers or be intercepted by the enemy?”

The company, the Examiner wrote, is also unsure about the technology. According to company documents, radio frequencies in ambulances and helicopters could disrupt the chips’ transmissions. In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, VeriChip also said it was unsure whether the chip would dislodge and move through a person’s body. It could also cause infections and "adverse tissue reactions,” the SEC filing states.

But Philbin downplayed the danger of the chips.

"It’s the size of a grain of rice,” she said. "It’s like getting a shot of penicillin


Fender

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2006, 15:20 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>"It’s the size of a grain of rice,” she said. "It’s like getting a shot of penicillin
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Oh, yeah? Well, I'm allergic to penicillin.

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2006, 17:29 
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SO then all service personnel will be like our pets?
My dog's have the chip in their neck in case they get lost and can get scanned to get them back to me.

So maybe we wouldnt need the clinic anymore? Just send everyone to the local VET?<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>


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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2006, 17:33 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>He has also promised to have a chip implanted in himself but could not tell the Examiner...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
I think we could tell them <i>where</i> to stick it. So, your arm is damaged/destroyed by an IED or in combat, along with the face. "Who the hell was this guy? Beats me." R-i-g-h-t.

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2006, 19:02 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>with a unique 16-digit number<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

just wonderig if this 16 digit number starts with 666.

I'm sorry but the goverment has enough controll over us without having a chip implated in my body

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2006, 19:23 
I would support this ONLY in a combat zone, and ONLY if the soldier in question was ENTITLED UNDER THE UCMJ TO OBSERVE IT REMOVED while under local anesthetic AND BEFORE he left the theater.

In such a case, it would be a pretty good idea.(if you hid them in all different places in troops the enemy wouldnt be able to find them very easily- and most would be too stupid or unsophisticated anyway).

It would make rescuing captured troops WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY easier.

And that's a fact.

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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2006, 20:49 
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For combat theater operations seems sound, so long as it's removable upon return. Arm's a bad idea, though, for the above reasons. They do pets beteen the shoulder blades, why not people? Somewhere on the torso is the best bet, as in the unlikely event that gets destroyed, you're picking up parts, anyways.

Man, if I had kids, I'd want them chipped until they at least turned 18, with GPS tracking signal so I'd KNOW where they'd been at all times.

Crushed under his own mental block...


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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 03:42 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The device is usually implanted above the triceps area of an individual’s right arm, but can also by implanted in the hand if scanned at the proper frequency. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>Since when does the frequency have anything to do with the location?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> able to be used in a variety of situations such as helping track illegal immigrants<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>How's that work?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, VeriChip also said it was unsure whether the chip would dislodge and move through a person’s body. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>This is icing on the cake. It makes me feel <i>real</i> good about this. Sorry. No can do, and I'll argue religious belief if necessary.

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 09:15 
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My understanding is that, right now, in order to read the chip the scanner can't be more than 10 or 12 inches away. The chips just don't have the power to transmit and kind of distance.

"One of you is gonna fall and die, and I'm not cleaning it up"
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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 10:06 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I would support this ONLY in a combat zone, and ONLY if the soldier in question was ENTITLED UNDER THE UCMJ TO OBSERVE IT REMOVED while under local anesthetic AND BEFORE he left the theater.

In such a case, it would be a pretty good idea.(if you hid them in all different places in troops the enemy wouldnt be able to find them very easily- and most would be too stupid or unsophisticated anyway).

It would make rescuing captured troops WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY easier.

And that's a fact.

<img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/m21sniper/HogTeethabstract.jpg" border=0>
<b>"US Snipers...Providing surgical strikes since 1776"</b>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Disagree with you here Snipe. For one they will not make for in theater ops only. Number two, that little chip will have all of your personal info on it. What happenes to it when you seperate or retire? Do you get to keep the chip or does the military? You should know they will not place them in various locations in the body, it's the military and it will be a standard location.

Also wondering how you figure it would make finding rescued troops so much easier? A scanner must be very close, inches, to read the chip. Now let's say they come up with a scanner that can read from long distance, bad idea. Why you say? Because that technology if in the wrong hands will give away troop locations.

No, this stinks from the word go. To many varibles for abuse by the goverment.

Fender

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
George Bernard Shaw


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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 10:12 
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I'm under the same Grounds as "Lil Hitler and Gifted"

Here's the Flaw in this whole thing.
1. They use them already in stuff you buy and YES after they say
"The signal is too weak to notice after 10-12 ft" thats
BS! The ones in your Clothes can be picked-up over 10 miles.

2. Face it,they'll come up with TECH (they already have) that can read them and track you from Space WITH THESE RFD's.

3. I'm sure another country could "READ THE RFD's and know where the TROOPS ARE AT ANYTIME, how does getting YOUR HAND OR ARM CHOPPED-OFF
Sound?

16 digit number would be #666( ssn###-##-####)status code ### that will be assigned.

SORRY NO DICE-------------------------------------
Tin Hat,Conspricy I dont care NO F-ING WAY!

Goose

I know now for a FACT that Truth is Stranger than Fiction and IT CAN ALWAYS BE WORST!

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 11:05 
Well the troops have spoken here at WT, and that's good enough for me.

WT no can support this gizmo.

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 11:38 
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"Good-bye Mr. Chip"<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

The Second Amendment: America's original homeland security.
Ya just can’t take life too seriously, because you aren’t going to get out of it alive anyway.

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 11:48 
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We've got a lot of experience with RFID tags. A lot of contruction work for nuclear installations required total tracability of construction components from manufacture to installation. Just in case they dicsover some bad steel or concrete they can ID exaclty where it's been used.

Everybody who says the max range is 10"-12" is bang on the money. Also the tags are passive, they only emit when 'jiggled' about by the RF.

They would not help in any way to recover troops.

The good news is, Goose can put away the tin foil hat, there is not a hope in hell of one of these things being picked up from space. The strength of the beam would probably fry the recipient anyhow...

There's also a lot of doubt as to how much actual data they can pack into them. The most likely scenario is that the tag contains a number which is then referenced on a database that holds all the personal info.

You're born, you keep your head down and you die. If you're lucky...


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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 14:31 
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If soldiers were ment to have chips in them, they'd be built, not born.

My 2 cents anyway.

"Slow is Fast - Fast is Slow"

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 15:41 
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I suppose if all else fails, a bit of sunburn on my arm wouldn't hurt.

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 18:15 
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>There's also a lot of doubt as to how much actual data they can pack into them. The most likely scenario is that the tag contains a number which is then referenced on a database that holds all the personal info.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Today maybe or even tomorrow, however with technology growing at the rate it is, who knows? Remember how large computer chips were just ten years ago compared to now? How much info they can process now with smaller chips. Used to be a floppy was the cat's meow with 1.44 now you can get SD ram cards with 5 or more gig on them.

Fender

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 20:46 
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These Chips I betch'a aint going to be
"PASSIVE" in anyway and probably "NEXT GEN" too which would be able to do more and be trackable.
Look at your cell phone,its trackable from 911 centers,

SO I'll keep my TIN FOIL HAT ON!

Goose

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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2006, 21:35 
Which is why i said it would help resuce missing/captured troops.

Like a GPS transciever sorta deal.

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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2006, 00:03 
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Snipe,

Understand your motivation to resuce our guys in trouble, but remember anything we can use to detect our guys, the other side can as well.

If this chip was emmiting, they might not be able to break the encryption, but they would be able to track the source. And because the troops are moving and changing position, you can't make the emmision directional or narrow beam.

Goose,
They might want to make them active and therefore trackable, but the problem is a power source. Most of your cell phone is battery. I know propeller heads are trying to use the bodies natural electrical flow to power stuff, but it's so low power, I doubt it would send a signal far.

But agree to both your points, we couldn't predict what technology would be like today, twenty years ago. Who know WTF might happen in the next twenty.

You're born, you keep your head down and you die. If you're lucky...


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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2006, 00:26 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID

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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2006, 05:49 
IF this chip were a GPS micro-transciever(and i understand it's not) it could be implanted in 'slumber mode', ie inactive. Then, if something happens to said troop, the DoD can tell the satellite to send out an activation signal that only his unique 16 digit chip will respond to, at which time it would begin emmiting it's unique 16 digit ID and 10 digit grid continuously(like a rescue radio).

THAT'S what i'm visualizing when i say 'i can see some merit'....just so people know where i'm coming from here.

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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2006, 19:16 
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I understand where your coming from,but the Rag's aint going to give you anything to resuce once they know they have chips.

They'll kill them off the bat,

Which to me would be a better way to go instead of them dragging it out.
But then again,you dont surrender and always leave a bullet for yourself.

Goose

I know now for a FACT that Truth is Stranger than Fiction and IT CAN ALWAYS BE WORST!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2006, 21:44 
You're right...that would be a better way to go because as far as i'm concerned, troops have no goddamned business surrendering to begin with.

Certainly not to these animals.



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