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I am spitballing here...But is there not a procedure to reactivate airframes at long term storage at DM? Has there ever been a situation where it has been done? And how does that affect programs that have been recentley retired like the A-6...or soon to be retired like the F-14, or even the A-10, if what we have been hearing and reading is true......

You can be general, but I am curious if they go into "mothballed state" for a period of tiem not unlike Navy ships, before they are turned into beer cans.

If your not having fun, your not doing it right!

Yes there is a procedure for reactivating the aircraft that are in the AMRAC at Davis-Monthan. I have heard it said that they can start rolling certain catagory storage jets in as little as 24 hours. That always seemed a bit ambitious to me after seeing how they were preserved though. It has been done on a limited basis....not as the result of a military callup. The F-100, F-106 and F-4 drone program being an example. They are doing it at this moment with older F-16's for foreign military sales. They are sending them to Italy and Poland.

"face it....perhaps your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others!"

Edited by - m&m on Jun 11 2003 4:38 PM

Thats something I never considered...Using DM is kind of a "used car lot" for foreign sales...

Always figured that exported aircraft were ususally new build, or were ANG holdovers. Never knew they actually went to DM. Thanks for the gouge Mark.



If your not having fun, your not doing it right!

[quote]
Yes there is a procedure for reactivating the aircraft that are in the AMRAC at Davis-Monthan. I have heard it said that they can start rolling certain catagory storage jets in as little as 24 hours. That always seemed a bit ambitious to me after seeing how they were preserved though. ----------

I use to ferry aircraft into DM for storage. Yeah, they have different catagory storages. Navy had parked 2 Tomcats in 81 for storage. These were prototypes and couldn't use stock parts to keep them flying. Took DM 6 months to store them because they weren't qualified to turn the birds yet.

The biggie in DM is the heat. They developed this white coating that kept ambient temp inside of the airplane close to OAT.

Lots of test birds that never work out are parked there. Saw those, STOL birds with the jets on top of the wing. Forget their name. Funniest bird I saw was an orange B-52. DM workers told me it was the biggest RC bird around and ran by the CIA.

We use to get the short tour when we departed after dropping a bird off. At the time they had a wooden taxiway over the sand. You always felt like you would fall through the damn thing.

Jack

A lot depends on what you mean by reactivate. Do you mean just getting the aircraft flyable or to bring it up to combat statis? Flyable, maybe 7-10 workday working 24/7, combat ready a lot longer...

Take the F-106 or F-4 for example, some of the weapons they used when they went into the boneyard are no longer in the inventory so the aircraft will have to to be upgrades so they can use the weapon (at least some) of today.

The A-10 is unique in it's the only USAF fighter/attack aircraft which has remained in front-line service after some were put into the "yard". To get the Hogs of AMARC up to current config would require about 200 minor TCTOs (lighting, software updates, and airframe repaires) and many major TCTOs like LASTE, EGI, and AIM-9 intergration.

I don't think (and the pilots can help with this) a current pilot could operate (not without problems) an A-10 comming straght from AMARC. LASTE alone and how it changes weapons deleavry would be one major issues.



Ugly but well hung!
http://www.warthogpen.com

NOT TO MENTION CREWCHIEFS DICE,

ALOT HAS BEEN CHANGED SINCE A COUPLE OF US HAVE TOUCHED A HOG.
BUT I BET ITS LIKE RIDING A BICYCLE

LETS SEE

I BET I COULD STILL DO THE GROUND CHECKS BY MEMORY TODAY

PRESS TO TEST

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\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
NOT TO MENTION CREWCHIEFS DICE,

ALOT HAS BEEN CHANGED SINCE A COUPLE OF US HAVE TOUCHED A HOG.
BUT I BET ITS LIKE RIDING A BICYCLE

LETS SEE

I BET I COULD STILL DO THE GROUND CHECKS BY MEMORY TODAY

PRESS TO TEST
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Ha I'm sure you could Goose! Most of the Crew Dog stuff is in the inspections, a couple times around the jets and I bet you could turn and burn with the best! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly but well hung!
http://www.warthogpen.com

WHAT THE...
the tomcat is being scraped!!!!!?
this can't be happening
NOTE: tomcat is SECOND favorite plane

It's true.

2008, they're history.

"Trample the wounded...hurdle the dead"

I am glad the Tomcat is being retired at this point...I don't think I can tolerate much more gross mismanagement of such a awesome combat aircraft. Its great now, could have been better. Some may stay around longer as dedicated tarps birds.........some VF's may carry on beyond 2008...all depends on the SH, and the F-35.

If your not having fun, your not doing it right!

[quote]
Thats something I never considered...Using DM is kind of a "used car lot" for foreign sales...

Always figured that exported aircraft were ususally new build, or were ANG holdovers----------

It all depends. I have pulled some S-2s out of the boneyard before to be flown down to some South American country after an overhaul. Major problem for me, was ensuring the damn things would run OK. Old timers told me to stop in ELP and really check the bird for leaks, oil burn and fuel burn. We flew them into Navy Jax. Dunno if they ever sent them down South.

If they want to pull something out of the boneyard to reactivate the warbird. It depends on the bucks and priority being used.

Jack

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Yes there is a procedure for reactivating the aircraft that are in the AMRAC at Davis-Monthan. I have heard it said that they can start rolling certain catagory storage jets in as little as 24 hours. That always seemed a bit ambitious to me after seeing how they were preserved though. It has been done on a limited basis....not as the result of a military callup. The F-100, F-106 and F-4 drone program being an example. They are doing it at this moment with older F-16's for foreign military sales. They are sending them to Italy and Poland.

"face it....perhaps your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others!"

Edited by - m&m on Jun 11 2003 4:38 PM
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I find it very humourous observing the Hell Flight test goes through Getting these planes Certified for Service and Sale. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>..LOL there he goes again M&M, thats the third pass with a hung main!

Personally I feel the aircraft are nor preserved well enough and should be placed in a Hardened shelters that can control the enviroment. I dont miss my days of acceptance testing <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

I will Agree with Dice on the Phase Updates to allow the aircraft to meet current operational Standards. However. The worse jets are always the ones that sit the longest. Even trying to evaluate what is required to be repaired is a scarry endeavor. You really cant compare what airframe will be in service quicker. A Hydraulic bird or a Electric. The maintainers can speak for this. is it easier to chase and fix Hydraulic problems, or easier to check and pull/ replace yards of wire looms and black boxes. The fact is the birds are a mess. It may just be better to leave Dm birds as a Foriegn Military sale or as Parts only, and to Upscale production of current new fighters rolling off the assembly line to meet upsizeing operational warfighting abilities.

Personally as long as the bird can drop bombs and send Bullets out of the nose and Hotpit for another sortie then it has combat potential. I could care less if the GPS, Inertial, or Threat warning and Protection systems work. If we have gotten ourselves into a shit sandwhich that required our useing Dm birds in our defense. We sure dont have time to upgrade to current status gear.

Anybody still recycleing soupcans?
<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - mrmudd on Jun 13 2003 6:11 PM

[quote]


Personally I feel the aircraft are nor preserved well enough and should be placed in a Hardened shelters that can control the enviroment. ----------

The Navy bagged new Vikings and Tomcats then controlled the environment for a few years till they needed them. So its doable.

Jack

I know pre september 11 there were a number of ex jet warbirds in civillian hands has this been put a stop now and did these jets ever come directly from US surplus stocks?

Most of the Jets in this category were a-4's, a-7's, and t-38's

I presume they were just surplussed-off. After 9/11, a number were grounded for a few months to review paperwork, and such, but guys with civvy A-4s were flying out of Hill in May, and guys with L-29 Delphins still fly out of Olympia, WA, and elsewhere. Keep in mind, it takes a bit more training to fly those, they're mostly ex-law enforcement or military pilots, and it's a lot easier to high-jack an airliner than a single- or two-seat aircraft. lol

A sucking chest wound is life's way of telling you to slow down...

ok, here's an almost off topic question. About how much sprayLAT (spelling) do you guys go through in a year? I know it would vary a lot depending on incomming arivals in a given year, but can you ball park it for me? Always been curious.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

What exactly is sprayLAT (spelling)?

"Retreat, hell! We just got here!"-Captain Lloyd Williams, 2nd Marine Division, Belleau Wood, France, WWI

Here's a particularly interesting multimedia presentation from Kodak about AMARC. It gives a highly entertaining and informative look at what happens to the birds of the boneyard.

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/flash/e ... s/meta.swf

that was a nice presentation...

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As for the bone yard.... where do you think we get all the parts for our f-111's?