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Sparticus is still waiting patiently for a10stress to return with info from his friends and scoffs at boomer for the April fools comment.<img src=newicons/anim_cussing.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Insert trite message here"

LOL, Sparticus scoffs very convincingly.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

I fear no scoffing lol
<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> on the string

it takes some muslin to smother a muslem, that's what I always say.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

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The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

You can actually see the titanium bathtub very clearly on an unpainted Hog.



"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

<img src="http://www.warthogpen.com/bs/tub.jpg" border=0>

HMFIC

OK. Here is how I remember it. Some of the details had alternate configurations but these are the ones I liked. Be kind.

<img src="http://www.mem.com/images/individual/186916/4192004_93740_AM_1.jpg" border=0>

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YGTBSM!!! <img src=newicons/anim_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/tard.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

HMFIC

ok mudd nice pot shot lol.

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how is the tub attached? Is it welded to the longerons front and rear? I assume it would be used as a bulkhead to save a little weight?

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The tub has titanium sides and front, aluminum bottom and back. It is all bolted together and bolted in, integral to the airframe. No welding.

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Aluminum bottom?

Hmmm.

I'd think the bottom would be the most oft struck part of it.

Thanx for the pix Stress.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

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Aluminum bottom?
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I believe I have misspoken. Only the back is aluminum. I don't know why I said that. Oops.

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Got ya bro.

What was the rationale behind removing the aft titanium portion of the tub starting with the 76MY Hogs?



"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
What was the rationale behind removing the aft titanium portion of the tub starting with the 76MY Hogs?

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Weight/Cost Saving. I didn't know anyone was aware there were some with titanium rear walls. It was argued that by the time any AP projectile reached the aft cockpit wall it would not have much punch left after going through the heaviest wing/fus. structure in the aircraft (if the jet survived a hit at "ground zero" in the first place).

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I was mainly thinking of the aft tub's ability to stop schrapnel after the plane took a hit...not really of the effect of a round hitting it.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I was mainly thinking of the aft tub's ability to stop schrapnel after the plane took a hit...not really of the effect of a round hitting it.
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I think it's about an inch thick. That will stop the schrapnel, right?

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waaaaaaayyyyy cool on the A-10X pic
I want one where do I steal it from?
THAT should be the "Batplane"!!!

another question, how does Titanium compare as far as spall is concerned? I understand DensAlum is something less than desirable when it comes to spall.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

"I think it's about an inch thick. That will stop the schrapnel, right?"

Depends on the type of aluminum alloy used, it's hardness, and the nature of the schrapnel in question.

Probably the answer is yes, it will stop most schrapnel.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
OK. Here is how I remember it. Some of the details had alternate configurations but these are the ones I liked. Be kind.

<img src="http://www.mem.com/images/individual/186916/4192004_93740_AM_1.jpg" border=0>

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Stress, that is absolutely hilarious! I want a model of that thing!

looks like it would be pitch unstable to me.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

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looks like it would be pitch unstable to me.
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Everybody's a critic.

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quote:
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looks like it would be pitch unstable to me.

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Everybody's a critic.





<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

"face it....perhaps your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others!"

so is Stress being criticle of ME? lol a vicious circle I tells ya!
Ya It looks unstable to me.




"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

I guess it's about time to explain some of the details. This sketch is mine but it includes all the goals we were trying to achieve with the A-10X concept (no matter how delusional it was). Priority one was the frontal sector RCS. We were only looking for -13db (95% reduction), so the usual suspects were given the treatment, e.g the inlets got the cone screens, the right angle reflectors at the wing and empenage intersections got swept (aligned), so did the wing/gear pod intersection. The noses of the fuselage and pods got pointy to get rid of the specular reflection of the spherical nose. The gun (which was the only armament for the stealth mission)was completely enclosed utilizing actuated doors for the muzzle and gas purging. The canopy also got the spook treatment, shhhh. One problem the A-10 didn't have was a radar antenna and radome. It made up for it with all the other warts. If you noticed, the wing is new, no pylons thank you. It is much thinner with no camber and a wet outer panel. To make up for some more of the lost fuel, the leading edge extensions (LEX)are wet. The controls can only be fully powered. Forget about manual reversion. The aerodynamic balance, mass balance and those trim tabs out in the airstream are total nighmares to deal with. All those antennae sticking out have to go too. They needed to be flush, with the spook treatment applied, but we had no detail knowledge of how to fix it then. Yeah, Boomer is probably right. The leading edge extensions are destabilizing, but I tried to compensate with the empennage LEX. The C.G. was moved forward when fuel was in the Wing LEX, which also was compensating. Maybe I should have swept the outer panels aft like a DC-3, darn. Anyway, artifical stablization was OK to consider. The vertical fin tilt was something I just put on to confuse things. The side RCS was not a priority. The A-10X had the same empennage configuation as you are familiar with, but it was RAS (Radar Absorbing Structure). Fairchild had a research contract in the late 70's to look into RAS. We used the A-10 vertical fin as a design exercise. We built a big chunk of the fin and tested it structurally and electrically. It worked OK. Needless to say, this radar signature reduction retrofit is a whole lot of work. Would it be worth it? Definitely not for an airplane that is maneuvering within a few miles of the threat radar...and all those eyeballs. What were we thinking? All the A-10 quirky survivability features were gone, and for what? We had a pointy nose fighter that was more vulnerable with even less performance than before. Lawn darts looked better against the "X" than the "A". The F-117, which was already flying by then, was the right use of the stealth concept. Good riddance A-10X.



Edited by - a10stress on Apr 20 2004 1:48 PM

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I bet modding the engine pylons (rather than the whole engine mount at the fusalage) could have moved the Cg far enough forward to counter the LERX. I like the scrimmed intakes, and the idea of the gun being the only armamment is a VERY interesting idea, what other plane could get away with THAT!!
Can you tell what the threat was that they/you were trying to counter?

also, was Indium the canopy treatment that replaced the gold film(vapor deposit?) on the F-16 canopy?

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell

Fighting For Justice With Brains Of Steel !
<img src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/atengun2X.GIF" border=0>

_________________
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.

Can sparticus safely assume that a10stress did not see a working copy of this stealthy beast? Could it have been built as a 2 seater? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Insert trite message here"