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Hi - this is my first post but have frequented the site for a long time and have always enjoyed the wealth of knowledge and love u guys have for the hog

Anyhow.....i've always been interested in the history of the A-10 but just recently have wondered why certain nations have never tried to purchase the aircraft (i know a maritime strike varient was propesed for a time tha generated some interest). In particular I wondered why South Korea never considered the Aircraft to suppliment or replace their A-37 Dragonflys as the facilities and expertise provided by the USAF unit as Osan would have made the job of flying the A/c much easier.....


Any light u guys could shed on this would be greatly appreciated.....

Thanks in advance......

Ever consider the US did not want to sell the A-10 to anyone else?

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

I thought Fairchild tried to sell the A-10, I remember reading a foot note on it but I'd be damned if I could find it.

Silly Saddam, Holes are for rabbits! - joe P.

My take on that is that the vast majority of nations cannot afford a dedicated CAS jet, so tend to go with the multi-roles instead.

"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

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I thought Fairchild tried to sell the A-10, I remember reading a foot note on it but I'd be damned if I could find it.

Silly Saddam, Holes are for rabbits! - joe P.
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The bottom of the page.....

http://www.warthogpen.com/twoseat.html



HMFIC

From the link provided by Dice...

"As I said the program didn't die when the AF rejected the concept because in 1982 Fairchild Republic responded to a "letter of interest" form a small Middle Eastern country named The United Arab Emirates or UAE. As you can see from the documents below the USAF backed the program and it seemed on track but again, in the end, it died also.

The story I've heard (rumor) is the UAE was not really interested in the program from the start because the AF did not buy the aircraft... so nether were they! For whatever reason the UAE didn't purchase the NAWs A-10 and the program died around 1982."



"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier."

Kipling-

I remember back in the 1980's there was talk about South Korea wanting to purchase the A-10. All they wanted was the basic aircraft and the abilty to deliver bomb's and bullet's and no pointy head avionics stuff.

"GLAD TO HAVE BEEN THERE AND HAVE BEEN PROUD TO HAVE SERVERED"

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I remember back in the 1980's there was talk about South Korea wanting to purchase the A-10. <b>All they wanted was the basic aircraft and the abilty to deliver bomb's and bullet's and no pointy head avionics stuff.</b>

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Freaking amen! As it should be. Too many HUD/EGI baby pilots these days. Soon, we'll have consent-to-release/MFD babies too.

All the ingredients for a slow F-16.

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The story I've heard (rumor) is the UAE was not really interested in the program from the start because the AF did not buy the aircraft... so nether were they! For whatever reason the UAE didn't purchase the NAWs A-10 and the program died around 1982."

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Shoulda sold them the F-20.

Stupid Dutchies...

Arghh our coverment is making strange and wrong decisions>>>

1st.. they buyes Apachy's... I Think far to fragile and expensive..... A couple of Hawgs should be better

2nd.. they gonna participate and buy the JSF... ARGHHHHH stupid stealthy thing.... how about stealth with some bombs under the wings? or is one bomb in a bomb-bay enough?..... A couple of Hawgs should be better...

The US should sell tha hawg!!!! Promote it!!!! put it in Sale

<img src="http://www.xs4all.nl/~ervani/ervani_sig.jpg" border=0> <br><br>Thou Mortal Grunt did you ever hear the sound of the GAU-Avenger? now you know how death sounds
http://www.displaytigers.nl
http://www.lastresort.nu

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Freaking amen! As it should be. Too many HUD/EGI baby pilots these days. Soon, we'll have consent-to-release/MFD babies too.

All the ingredients for a slow F-16.
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I don't like it any more than you do, but these improvements and modifications are what're going to keep the A-10 in inventory.

I still maintain the skills to find targets without nav equipment and with only a good map in the cockpit, but I'm most definitely going to do my best to contintue to teach the new guys in the squadron how to do it the new way and the old way, as long as the old way still applies.

Use of the new technology and equipment has to be taught because that's how we're going to employ most of the time. However, bombing and nav basics also have to be taught so we can still employ when all that cool new stuff shits the bed.

I always felt the AF and Most Tactical Aviators had the poorest Topographic Nav abilities. It's not something that is invested well enough into.

The Marine Aviators have a good grasp of it as Land Naviation is a key skillset of it From the Training recieved in OCS. While it doesnt match up to the Skills of an Infantry officer that applies his tradecraft. It does allow the Marine Ground and Air to exist on the same tactical wavelength.

The army has probably the best Skillsets concerning Topographic nav skills as most of force structure of their aviators is Warrant Officers with previous land Combat arms experiance and that their mission is Focused to supporting ground operations.

The F16 has nice tools to utilise. I never used 90% of them.

IF you can visualise the enemies route of march and evaluate the terrain correctly, you will be allot more effective with your Weapons employment, and work more effectivly supporting a ground commanders scheme of manuever.

I think from having had a previous life as a Marine Grunt was very beneficial in understanding terrain and its effects on fo0t and armor forces, and how they manuever.

The second thing that was beneficial is having an aircraft that had a large mission time. 6-8 Hours, can be spent learning and applying a larger window of application training, than aircraft such as the 16 or 15E. The shorter the air time, the longer it will take you to strengthen those skill sets.

The electronic tools are nice to have. But were loseing the art of Manual navigation and computing. It needs to be squeezed in there.

These were some of the things I tried to enforce on my flights. We used tape and covered up a few instruments to prevent computed Cheating. Some things in certain aircraft are hard to hide, but. Teaching how to properly meet time on target or ciircumnavigate with Timings is a beneficial skillset.

When an emergency happens and they lose a Hud and that "Computed nav data, and a radio... Your left to the basic steam gauges and the terrain to get the aircraft back safely.

If your in the weather it compounds this immensly.

the last thing you want to be fueling that helemt inferno is not knowing where the hell you are.

A little nav error, could put you in the drink or hostile airspace,

Flying a cessna or a birdog may not be cool. But it has its purpose. Aero Clubs should be utilised for this purpose. "Basic Navigation retention"

I actually enjoyed it as much as actually putting bombs on target or gun tracking a bandit.


Some of the fun objectives was having a 3 ship flight of cessnas. A topo Map, and calling out 4-6 digit grids and having the Lead aircraft try and nav to it, Once that gets fin tuned, you then start throwing in som challenges, 20 nm radial arc and ingress points. It was one hell of a challenge, and when you did it right, it took you to a whole new level. the cool thing is you could do this for a longer sortie generation and aquire more "noodle time" with the lower airspeeds to grasp the concepts.

Even if the aircraft you have is not providing the time you need, theirs other airframes that do. and very cost effective.

Id fly a cessna over flying a desk until the next "jet" time.

Many skills can be practiced, SAnDY, FAC, Recon, etc....

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

Tiny Giant, Mudd and Type 7,

A mentor of mine once told me: Technology works best when it matters least. Keep teaching the fundamentals.

In OIF, we had a flight doing Urban CAS in north Baghdad when the flight lead's HUD went lost wingmen, so he did what any self-respecting ATTACK pilot would...he switched to standy pipper and continued to rage upon the enemy with guns and rockets! And the vis was about 1.5 miles with some pretty heavy AAA in the area.

ATTACK!
Coach

Coach!

We had the same thing happen, and did the same thing.

I'm a relatively inexperienced IP, but I like to tout the usefulness of the manual systems in the aircraft. Sure, you have to know how to use the green shit and all the cool new toys, but, just as you said, they don't always work.

I can't count the number of times I get whines and complaints when I tell my wingy we're going out to do manual weapons delivery followed by <i>real</i> LATN (nothing but a clock and a map). After the flight though, I find that most pilots actually enjoy getting back to the basics of what they learned so long ago.

I belive more money should have been put into making the A-10 more surviveable in the envrioment it was built for (IE Comet and other systems) and not used to move it out of it's low level role. I worry about MC rates and maintanablity of the "new" A-10. <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

HMFIC

BREAK OUT YOUR COPIES OF " FAIRCHILD-REPUBLIC" A-10 THUNDERBOLT II BY PETER C SMITH

CHAPTER 14,PAGE 121

COUNTRIES THAT EITHER LOOKED INTO OR FAIRCHILD TRIED TO SELL THE A-10 TOO

MOROCCO
IRAN<img src=newicons/anim_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
THAILAND
UAE
PERU
PAKISTAN
EGYPT

BUT I READ ALSO WHERE TURKEY SHOWED INTREST.



PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

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BREAK OUT YOUR COPIES OF " FAIRCHILD-REPUBLIC" A-10 THUNDERBOLT II BY PETER C SMITH

CHAPTER 14,PAGE 121

COUNTRIES THAT EITHER LOOKED INTO OR FAIRCHILD TRIED TO SELL THE A-10 TOO

MOROCCO
IRAN<img src=newicons/anim_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
THAILAND
UAE
PERU
PAKISTAN
EGYPT

BUT I READ ALSO WHERE TURKEY SHOWED INTREST.



PRESS TO TEST
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Iran? We talking the Shah days, or Iran-Contra affair days?:)

IT WAS THE SHAH DAYS ,

I COULD ONLY IMAGINE THE I-RANS WITH THE HOG,END UP LIKE THE F-14 ,LACKING SPARE PARTS.
BUT IF THEY WOULD OF BEEN ABLE TO USE THEM AGAINST IRAQ IN THE 80'S,THE WORLD MIGHT LOOK ALOT DIFFEREANT

PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

I always thought the reason nobody else has it is because of the WMD status it has because of the DU rounds. Thereby the U S wouldn't let anybody buy it. That's what I heard anyway.

High On The Hog

_________________
\"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a GAU-8/A at your side, kid.\"--Hawg Solo

Dice, just read your post:
I belive more money should have been put into making the A-10 more surviveable in the envrioment it was built for (IE Comet and other systems) and not used to move it out of it's low level role. I worry about MC rates and maintanablity of the "new" A-10. <i></i>

<i></i><i></i>
My rules for Hog upgrades right now...survivability, sustainability and lethality, in that order.

Coach

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My rules for Hog upgrades right now...survivability, sustainability and lethality, in that order.

Coach

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Coach, I guess it depends on who you talk to how the up-coming mods will affect survivability. It will also depend on guys like you developing tactics to match her new capibilities.
Sustainability as you know is a big issue and being worked but, where we are going to end-up is still kinda cloudy.
lethality again is a subject up for debate.



HMFIC