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OK, historians, I need to fill some facts in on the 510 TFS/81 FS

Flying ops at the 81 TFW ended on 1 Apr 1993 and the wing deactivated on 1 Jul 1993. I know the 510th went to Spangdahlem for a while and later moved to Aviano. Now for the mystery, did the 81 FS at Spangdahlem emerge from the A-10s left over from the 510th? I got this from the the 510 FS history...

Reassigned to the 52 Operations Group on 1 October 1992, the 510th relocated to Spangdahlem AB, Germany. The 510th Fighter Squadron completed transferring aircraft from RAF Bentwaters, England, to Spangdahlem, Germany on 4 January 1993. This completed the transition of the 510th Fighter Squadron from Bentwaters, which closed in 1993. With the final two aircraft, the 510th FS had its full compliment of 18 A-10 and six OA-10 aircraft. Spangdahlem's 52nd Fighter Wing received its first operational A-10s from Bentwaters in October 1992 and was receiving aircraft from England about every two weeks during the transition. The 52nd FW inactivated when Spangdahlem was redesignated the 20th Fighter Wing 04 January 1994. The 20th FW was assigned to RAF Upper Heyford, England, but its flying mission there ended by 31 December 1993. The 20th FW was scheduled to operate three squadrons of F-16s and one A-10 squadron making it the largest flying operation in USAFE. During 1993-1994, the 510th flew more than 1,700 combat sorties, from Aviano AB, Italy, in support of Operation DENY FLIGHT. In the skies over Bosnia-Herzegovina, the squadron became the infamous "BOSNIA BUZZARDS". The 510th inactivated on 1 February 1994.

Redesignated as the 510th Fighter Squadron "BOSNIA BUZZARDS" on 23 March 1994, it activated on 1 July 1994 at Aviano AB, Italy, and was assigned to the 31st Fighter Wing's Operations Group flying the General Dynamics/Lockheed F-16CG VIPER.

The friggin USAF history page (http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/wwwroot/rso ... 081fs.html) still shows them flying F-16s, but I think that's a typo as there are dates from 1993 onward but no a/c noted.

The 81 FS had F-16s from 1987–1990, I am just wondering why they would take an A-10 squadron (510th) and convert it over to F-16s and then take a F-16 squadron (81st) and convert it to A-10s. I knwo the 78 TFS also converted to F-16s when they moved to Shaw.

Cheers! Maj M2

The same fleet of Hogs became the 81st FS, with the 510th FS joining the 555th at Aviano using F-16's which formerly made up the 86th FW at Ramstein.
Aside from the odd transfer out here and there, the flock of Hogs at SP are the ones which transferred from Bentwaters/Woodbridge.
The transfer of squadron number from 510 to 81 took place on Feb 25th 1994.
As for the 20th FW, that transferred to Shaw AFB to replace the 363rd FW and absorbed their aircraft with the 55th FS becoming the Hog squadron and the 77th/78th having the Vipers.
To my knowledge, the 20th FW have never been associated with Spangdahlem nor has the 52nd been deactivated in recent years.

I hope you can find some useful info out of the above ramblings!

Did the 510th FS A-10's become the 81st FS?...........I should have just said YES!!


<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - Bacon Bits on Dec 03 2003 08:50 AM

Bacon

That is what I suspected, thanks for the gouge. The 510th history I posted was a bit confusing, I don't think it was meant to imply that the 20th was ever at Spangdahlem. But I see your point, it does state:

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> The 52nd FW inactivated when Spangdahlem was redesignated the 20th Fighter Wing 04 January 1994.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

...which I don't believe is true. My question was simply did the Hawgs from Bentwaters end up at Spang, which you confirmed.

Thanks again! M2

By the way, that history blurb came from: http://www.510fs.org/history/

Cheers! M2

Bacon

Just to confirm the above, last week while I was at the 81 FS I noticed the dartboard in the bar was the old one from the 510 TFS!

Needless to say, hanging out at the 81st is like "Hawg Heaven!" <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Cheers! M2

Well kind of...yes and no. The reason I say this is because I was on the transfer team at Bentwaters at the time. The aircraft at Spang are actually a mix of aircraft from the different squadrons that were assigned to the 81st TFW. It was scheduling madness but what it boiled down to was, when a squadron slated to get our aircraft were ready for some, we sent them. They went to 4 different places...Boneyard, DM flightline, Indiana Guard, and Spang. Most of the later transfers were to Spang but not every jet in the 510th went to Spang. I wish I had kept better track of the tails...

Go Ugly Early !
No body's ugly after 2:00 A.M.

_________________
Go Ugly Early!
Nobody is ugly after 2 A.M.

This might be a bit off topis but what the hell. I heard some rumor that A-10's will be leaving Pope in the next few years and a similer diving up of the A-10's will be done between units and the boneyard. Can anyone confirm or deny that Pope will loose the A-10?

Specs Make Better Lovers

Hogmender

Thanks, I really wasn't sure if the 510th moved <i>in toto</i> or it was how you described. With all those A-10s departing WR, it only makes sense!

Now the real question is (and I don't know if there is an answer for this), why did the 510th move to Aviano and become a Viper squadron and the 81st stood up in its place? Why not make the Viper squadron the 81 FS? We may never know the logic, kinda like having the 355 FS in the 354 FW, while the 354 FS is in the 355 FW! <img src=newicons/tard.gif border=0 align=middle>

Cheers! M2

Not really sure of that question. I do remember being in the 21st FS at Shaw. They told us the reason we were getting designated the 55FS was because they wanted to keep the more "historic" unit designations going. That's when we got named the 20th FW after Upper Heyford closed. The 55th was a F-111 squadron and was then, the A-10 unit at Shaw. They later got 16's when the A-10's moved to Pope. I know the 78th at Woodbridge went to Shaw to a 16 squadron...still is. The 77th and 79th I think were at Upper Heyford but not sure. Funny how those things work.

Go Ugly Early !
No body's ugly after 2:00 A.M.

_________________
Go Ugly Early!
Nobody is ugly after 2 A.M.

The 78th is no longer a FS at Shaw. We have the 55th, 77th and 79th. All F-16's.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

Yep, the 78th Bushmasters folded about a year ago, right?

What I don't understand is what the 510th didn't stay an A-10 unit at Spang. Why did they become the 81st and then the unit designation move to Aviano? The 510th had a history with the A-10 with the 81 TFW, it "moved" to Spangdahlem when Bentwaters/Woodbridge closed down (sniff, sniff...sorry, it still brings a tear to my eye to know that the mightiest A-10 unit that ever was--the 81 TFW with 120 A-10s--is no more). Same goes with the 78th, why taint it by becoming a Viper squadron? Wasn't there another designation out there that the squadron at Shaw could have become?

Might just be me, but I think a squadron that changes aircraft should keep its designation (e.g. the 138th), but when it closes down the designation should be "retired." OK, maybe not, I just don't like seeing old A-10 designations on Viper squadrons. At least the 81 FS has some memorabilia left over from its A-10 days (when it was the 510th)...it it the last remaining remnant of the 81 TFW there is!

Cheers! M2

Hmmm, didn't know the 78th folded. You learn something new everyday

Go Ugly Early !
No body's ugly after 2:00 A.M.

_________________
Go Ugly Early!
Nobody is ugly after 2 A.M.

Yeah, sad news, even if they were a Viper unit! <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> I read about it on the association web page (http://www.78th-bushmasters.org/), last year, but it ain't working at the moment...

I've got the Squadron Prints print of 80-0203 from the 78 TFS right next to me on my office wall. Oddly enough, it is dated April 1982, the same month and year I arrived at Bentwaters!

Sniff! M2

Major you got to BW in April 1982? I got there in June 1982. Where did you work? I was is the Gun Shop, 81st EMS.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

Fender

I worked in the DCM building next to the 78th, and I lived over in the 581 AGS dorm on Woodbridge. I had the additional luck of being a SP augmentee while I was there. We probably ran into each other at the Bag Nasty (remember that?) or the BX. Otherwise I spent most of my free time visiting my British girlfriend in Bury St Edmonds. Ahhh...the good old days!

I hope to get back to Bentwaters in the coming weeks, it will be the first time I've returned to the twin bases since leaving in 1984.

Cheers! M2

Regarding the 510th leaving Spang, I can only think that maybe it was to keep the 81st FS 'alive' with the 52nd FW.
The 81st FS has a long history in Europe with the 52nd FW.
The 510th took over Vipers from the 512th/526th FS's at Ramstein to help form the 31st FW at Aviano alongside the 555th.
This is pure speculation, but the 81st FS have had a long association with Spangdahlem.
If the powers that be were interested in Hog squadron history, they would have kept the 92nd FS 'Skulls' alive and transferred them to Spang seeing as they were the first USAFE A-10 unit.

Majormadmax......I can't describe how insanely jealous I am that you got to visit the 81st FS at Spang<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>
As for BW, I last saw it when I flew a x-country trip to Norfolk a couple of years after getting my PPL in 95, its about 80 or 90 miles from me, I miss the place like crazy, there was a time when apart from DM, I considered it Hawg Heaven.

"Who's on first, I Don't Know's on second and What's on third"...

"...government without arms is an inconsistency." James Logan (circa 1740)

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Bacon

Sneak over here to the Continent and we can see about stopping by Spang. I try and get by there every month or two.

You don't have a motorcycle by chance, do you?

Cheers! M2

Motorbikes are a no no, I don't mind risking my neck in 30 year old C-150's but motorbikes?...hell no!
I'd have to grab one of the budget airline flights over.