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I am updating my A-10 files and wondered what has happened to 79-0203, 80-0199 & 80-0209 last noted with 23rd TFW at England AFB in 1991.

Also 75-0262 last noted with 333rd TFS at DM in 1990


shuck

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shuck

I really don't think talking aircraft tail number location is such a good idea...If the AF want people to know where all the aircraft were it would be posted on the AF website.
In fact after 9/11 the tail numbers of aircraft at AMARC were removed form their site, must have been a reason for that...sorry Shuck.

<img src="http://www.warthogpen.com/bs/sig1.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Hogpen13 on May 20 2004 3:33 PM

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In fact after 9/11 the tail numbers of aircraft at AMARC were removed form their site, must have been a reason for that...sorry Shuck.

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LOL. What, so terrorists wouldn't know the tail numbers of the F-106 Delta Dart and A-4 Skyhawks we've got there?

Some of this OPSEC stuff is really WAY overboard. When we go overboard, we end up with stuff like the TSA, for starters.

What's next? Erase the tail numbers of static display planes on poles and next to gates, along with the ones at the AF museum?

LOL.

Whatever...just my opinion. <img src=newicons/Whatever_anim.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://www.warthogpen.com/bs/sig1.jpg" border=0>

TSA...talk about fighting the last war. That bullet has already been fired, that horse is out of the barn. Harass the traveling public about shoes and laptops. I personally think if a person was able to hijack a jet today, the people on that jet deserve to die if they let him get away with it. Take control of your own destiny.

Coach

Funny you say that Coach. I had the opportunity to work for the USSS for the SLC2002 olympic, I worked with a Capt from the Mass State police. He was the commander of the state HRT/SWAT team. His team was the one that took the Sneaker Bomber off the plane. His discription was very vivid.

The synopsis went a little like this:

Sneaker Bomber lights his sneaker... two big Black NBA players grab the guy and beat the shit out of him (few months after 9/11 so fears were high) and hold him down. Add in about 30 more people on theflight were taking their turn with him, Kicken, screamen obscenities, Pulling hair etc. They had this turd tied down with several belts. Every time he would move, he would get Drilled by one of the Big NBA guys.

The Swat commander said when they met the guy at the plain, this bigs sigh of relief came over the guy...then he collapesed at their feet. He had more fear from what he just went through with the passengers, than what he would ever have of the Police.
He laid their with ripped clothes, sever bruises and lumps, abrasions Like hed been ran over by a Hadjii MOB.

Any terrorist or person thinking of starting static on a Commercial flight is asking for a pretty serious tuneup.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

Shuck,
If you look through the archives on this site you'll probably find a a discussion on the tail numbers.
I fail to see the OPSEC threat from tail number location.
I have a list of where the tail numbers are in my office, but I'm too lazy to go down and get it.
In fact there is a website......www.scramble.nl...(if think that's right), that is a military aircraft site. Plug in a tail number and it will tell you where a particular jet is from several different countries.
Cheers
db

Being responsible means sometimes pissing people off.
Gen Colin Powell ret

www.scramble.nl/



Being responsible means sometimes pissing people off.
Gen Colin Powell ret

The pronoun security folks in the DOD and the ACC dont like it do to the fact that under expeditionary and training deployments, their claim is that by tracking the tail and Frame ID it can be used as a valuable intel tool in collecting information about a units abilities and identifying what unit has been spotted, all valid and relevent.

But the point is more to do with the fact, not all aircraft of the same type have identical field modifications and special systems. IE seperateing a tyndel F15C from an Aesa F15C. theirs a big differnce of capabilities, same as a Weasel 16 from a Guard 16 without lantirn.

If the pronoun folks were really serious about it. we would be flying vanilla painted aircraft with no identifiers as well as getting rid of the Color codings... Only then would the deception be more effective.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

I expect that the tail numbers asked about have been destroyed in accidents. How does that effect OPSEC? Already tried the Scramble data base with no joy.

shuck

Edited by - shuck on May 21 2004 01:35 AM

_________________
shuck

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I expect that the tail numbers asked about have been destroyed in accidents. How does that effect OPSEC? Already tried the Scramble data base with no joy.

shuck

Edited by - shuck on May 21 2004 01:35 AM
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Its a blanket Policy.

If theirs no lock then it aint stolen...thats the way it works. Sorry Shuck but probably not a good way of pushing the issue. your argument is flawed.

To answer your statement it would be simple to say. Just because its destroyed doesnt mean we want them to know what configuration was destroyed. Again the intel buisness is all about details and subterfuge.

We dont have policies stated for only the intel profesionals to understand and follow. It is written in a way that prevents the unknowing Service person from traveling on dangerous ground. And this is why we call them Blanket policies.

OPSEC doesnt exactly refer to if a system is operational or not. It covers all Sesnitive systems that are reflected in use as a whole.

This website may not be the best resource for this info. What is spoken here is becasue somewhere along the line The Head Quarters USAF and relevent commands in the DOD, made a public release of the info.

I would recommend you on visiting the www.af.mil website and using the Freedom of information act and the Public affairs office to handle that request.

Its not up to us to decide what to deciminate to the masses.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

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www.scramble.nl/



Being responsible means sometimes pissing people off.
Gen Colin Powell ret
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I looked on there and found all three tail numbers I was ever a DCC or ACC on...BUT.... I agree with Mudd also...if tail number locations are not important, than why did we use callsigns instead of tail numbers & spot locations during excersises?

We seem to get in the OPSEC arguement about once a year or so....everyone has a different opinion...lets just agree to disagree & just not post the locations...

<img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/70th.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/Mav_shot.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/25.jpg" border=0>

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I agree PRKIII, I'd hate to see the good folks of WT get called upon the carpet, because those lurkers feel a policy was broken.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

I dont understand why a fan of a particular aircraft needs to know which tales numbers are at which bases anyway. And agree that information shouldnt be common knowledge. Seems like the only spot that would be of use is at depot or higher up the chain.

Ken, Plane watching is a very big enthusiest Hobby. For them it's an exciting past time shareing info and plotting their avian travels. It's understandable and a harmless pursuit in their activities. But to those entities that are harmful to us, its a goldmine of intelligence data.

I've on many occasions worked as a temporary or supporting PAO with the Japanese when I was in the PACAF Theater. I enjoyed participateing with the aviation entusiests. Having a Japanese wife had also assisted me on several occasions on higher Levels of communication with the japanese people and Govt. for the Good of the US Govt and USAF in general. However even then with those friendshipping activities, there is just domain you cant delve into. Many civillians voice the argument about Public domain or the argument of within enhanced sight.

There are also arguments that becuase its on the internet or in a publication its officialy cleared to be discussed or volunteered upon. Just because the info is out there, It does not mean it has been cleared to continue its publicizing or volunteering such info.

If it doesnt come from an Official Command structure. It cannot be discussed, and even then the best policy is to refer them to the offical statements.

Not to be anal. But if its not referenced from an official site, it should not be referenced, no matter how honest our intentions may be to support those enthusiests.

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

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Whatever...just my opinion. <img src=newicons/Whatever_anim.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Let me clarify, my comments weren't directed at you in any way. Your comments simply provided a good lead-in to my thoughts.

No shots directed your way!

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Whatever...just my opinion. <img src=newicons/Whatever_anim.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Let me clarify, my comments weren't directed at you in any way. Your comments simply provided a good lead-in to my thoughts.

No shots directed your way!


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Understood.

<img src="http://www.warthogpen.com/bs/sig1.jpg" border=0>

If you could all look here folks for just a moment. I will have the answer to all your questions.....

<img src="http://www.batcave.syol.com/images/mib.gif" border=0>

"The power to Destroy the planet, is insignifigant to the power of the Air Force----Mudd Vader

The first three are serving the pope receiving some close attention from some tiger sharks.........and the last one rests in the boneyard<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>
Aah come on....the average raghead will never work that one out.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

In all seriousness, the info is freely available in countless database books nevermind the internet site already mentioned.
Solution? paint over the tail numbers....cancel all airshows.....fly only at night....restrict the sale of binoculars to ornithologists.....and round up anyone the other side of the perimeter fences at airbases......if you must fly during the day, erect unfeasibly high solid fences round the bases in case one of the wily spotters has got some bino's on the black market (am I allowed to say 'black' here in the States without it being considered un PC?)


Edited by - Bacon Bits on May 26 2004 04:23 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The first three are serving the pope receiving some close attention from some tiger sharks.........and the last one rests in the boneyard<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>
Aah come on....the average raghead will never work that one out.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

In all seriousness, the info is freely available in countless database books nevermind the internet site already mentioned.
Solution? paint over the tail numbers....cancel all airshows.....fly only at night....restrict the sale of binoculars to ornithologists.....and round up anyone the other side of the perimeter fences at airbases......if you must fly during the day, erect unfeasibly high solid fences round the bases in case one of the wily spotters has got some bino's on the black market (am I allowed to say 'black' here in the States without it being considered un PC?)


Edited by - Bacon Bits on May 26 2004 04:23 AM
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don't be a smart ass....

<img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/70th.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/Mav_shot.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/25.jpg" border=0>

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Shuck,
I checked "Scramble.nl" and they are all there.
Cheers
db

Being responsible means sometimes pissing people off.
Gen Colin Powell ret

If anyone wants to "discuss" OPSEC lets do it here http://forum.a-10.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6188 instead of taking over other threads...thanks ya'll...

<img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/70th.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/Mav_shot.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/25.jpg" border=0>

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Shuck,
I checked "Scramble.nl" and they are all there.
Cheers
db <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

So did I........

D.B. & Bacon Bits

My research suggests that the Scramble data might be wrong. I will stick with info I have until confirmed otherwise. Cheers

shuck

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shuck

hey prkiii, since when is being a smartass against the rules? It's OK for you to rage against anyone who rubs you the wrong way that day, but no one else can? Maybe you can make some sort of sign for the board that says "prkiii is a prick today" or maybe "prkiii is in a good mood today" so whe know what we are "allowed" to post.

Coach