WT Forums

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ATTACK!
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Thunderstruck, just wondering if you were ever assigned to the 75th?

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You can run but why die tired.
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Not directly...but I have worked with quite a few of The Sharks.

"Never miss an opportunity to shut the fuck up." That was told to me at the beginning of my A-10 career by a former FWSI who I believe is now a deputy group commander at the 23rd FG. One of the most outstanding and impressive individuals I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Wish I could have spent more time learning from him. His sage advice has saved me from buffonary many times.

ATTACK!

jmf422nd...
i dont know enough information specifically about the tf-34 or the hog to answer all those qustions... but my best guess is, like everything that was built a while ago, the t-34 is probably pretty strong.. and could probably handle a little more thrust and a little more rpm... especaily for the kind of time periods that water injection is comonly used for...

probably the aircraft best known to carry water injection would be the b-52... and they just use it for take off...
on the subject of whether or not water injection is worth its wieght... it seems logical to me that if water injection was used widely in piston engines to improve power, at random times during the flight, then if used properly it will be worth its weight... we are dealing with a large set of hypotheticals.. unfortuently... i havent got an a-10 manual... dice... why did you take it off the website? however i do have a a-10 pilot manual with all the opertaing procedures etc... and as far as i can see theres isnt anything in that to sugest the tf-34 couldnt take a little extra...

If you read the story posted by Boomer you can see a thrust incresses, which would equal water injection, can be done with new components like a redesigned fan.

"General Electric will overhaul TF34-100A engines with a new fan and upgraded internal components that can withstand higher operating temperatures."

So why are we beating this issue to death?

Ivan, I didn't removed the TO this is not my site but, I did have a hand in it being removed. Weasel (the sites webmaster) was questioned on having the -1 on the site so we tried to get the OK from the AF for him to have it....big no-go from the AF. I know it can be found other places but, we like this site to much to put it in danger over one peice of information.

Ugly But Well Hung

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> One thing I never understood as a pilot is when going through the hot pits, why the ground crew couldn't slap on 6 more BDUs?
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Concurrent servicing is rarely approved in day to day ops.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

Edited by - Fenderstrat72 on Jun 12 2004 10:14 AM

There's two drawbacks to water injection(i know this because it works in turbo-charged cars too).

1) You need a water tank
2) When you inject you leave a black smoke trail.

Methanol injection works better, and has a less pronounced smoke trail.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction"

Ronald Reagan

OH, YOU HAVE TO LONG FOR THE DAYS THAT THE HOG FLEW WITHOUT TEMS OR CDU'S,COMPUTERS IN THE OFFICE AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF,BEFORE THE AIM-9 MOD,FORMATION LIGHTS,ALL THOSE NEW FANCY THINGS PUT ON IN THE LATE 80'S AND EARLY 90'S.

THE EURO-1 CAMO PAINT,THE BIG A-10 BASES (BEACH,EAFB AND CROOKED CREEK),YOU FOUGHT FOR A TDY BECAUSE YOU GOT TIRED OF STAYING HOME.
CHEMICAL WARFARE WAS JUST A EXCUSE TO MAKE YOU WEAR A HOT SWEATTY RUBBER MASK IN 90F + TEMPS.

CREWCHIEFS DID APG WORK,SPECIALIST DID THEIR'S,NO-BODY STEPPED ON THE OTHERS TOES. WEAPONS TROOPS ,WELL THEY STILL HAVE A UNION (<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

BUT LIKE EVERYTHING,I LEARNED THAT YOU HAVE TO CHANGE,NO MATTER WHAT EVEN IF ITS NOT FOR THE BETTER.

THE BEST THING ABOUT THE HOG FAMILY IS THAT IT'LL KEEP TIGHT AND WILL FIGHT AMONGST ITSELF AND WHEN CALLED ON WILL DO THE JOB.

NEW ENGINES OR NOT,DREAMLIST MODS,WANTS,HAVE-NOTS,SHORT COMMINGS, ETC..
THEIR AINT ANOTHER JET LIKE THE A-10.




PRESS TO TEST

Edited by - sgtgoose1 on Jun 12 2004 7:54 PM

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> WEAPONS TROOPS ,WELL THEY STILL HAVE A UNION <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

OK Goose are you trying to start another rucus on here? Last I remember about the good old days was A-flight and B-flight not helping each other and spec and weapons having to step in and fireguard/launch assist.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

THAT WAS TRUE ALOT,BUT I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO WORK WITH A GOOD GROUP, I HAD ALOT OF BFLT FRIENDS,THE SPECIALIST WERE ALOT OF HELP,IE TRICKYLIL PULLED CHOCKS FOR ME ALOT OF TIMES,AND WEAPONS HAD ALOT OF PRETTY GOOD FOLKS TOO.PLUS THEY WERE FUN TO HANG OUT WITH IT.

I NOTICED FOR THE MOST PART FOLKS RIBBING EACH OTHER,BUT WORKING TOGETHER IN THE END .
EVERYBODY IS PART OF THE WHEEL,WITHOUT THEM ALL IT WOULD BE FLAT!!!!!!!



PRESS TO TEST

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

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THAT WAS TRUE ALOT,BUT I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO WORK WITH A GOOD GROUP, I HAD ALOT OF BFLT FRIENDS,THE SPECIALIST WERE ALOT OF HELP,IE TRICKYLIL PULLED CHOCKS FOR ME ALOT OF TIMES,AND WEAPONS HAD ALOT OF PRETTY GOOD FOLKS TOO.PLUS THEY WERE FUN TO HANG OUT WITH IT.

I NOTICED FOR THE MOST PART FOLKS RIBBING EACH OTHER,BUT WORKING TOGETHER IN THE END .
EVERYBODY IS PART OF THE WHEEL,WITHOUT THEM ALL IT WOULD BE FLAT!!!!!!!



PRESS TO TEST
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Couldn't have said it better...we always talked sh*t about specs & weapons....but my best friend is a spec, and most of the people I hung out with away from work were either specs or weapons...<b>BUT</b> Crew Dogs are still the best <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/70th.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/Mav_shot.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/25.jpg" border=0>

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>EVERYBODY IS PART OF THE WHEEL,WITHOUT THEM ALL IT WOULD BE FLAT!!!!!! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

To me the APG, Spec, Weapons thing is just part of the flight line...it's a "friendly" competition...at least it was to me...don't get me wrong...there were some specs & weapons troops I couldn't stand cause they thought they were better than everyone else...but there were crew chiefs like that too who I didn't care much for...but I worked with all of them alike...when it came to getting "my girl" ready to fly that day or the next, I "used" all the resources available to me, be it spec, weapons, or a more experienced crew dog if so needed....and...I would GLADLY trade the people I Work with since I've been civil service for the worst APG, Spec, or weapon troop...cause they were a million times better!

<img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/70th.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/Mav_shot.jpg" border=0><img src="http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/prkiii/25.jpg" border=0>

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Couldn't have said it better...we always talked sh*t about specs & weapons....but my best friend is a spec, and most of the people I hung out with away from work were either specs or weapons...<b>BUT</b> Crew Dogs are still the best <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

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So what do you guys think of Finance or CBPO folks?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> So what do you guys think of Finance or CBPO folks?
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Let's just say the flightline is where the rubber meets the road and everyone else is there as support. By the way Type 7 you are showing your age by calling it CBPO. It was changed to MPF many moons ago.

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

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Couldn't have said it better...we always talked sh*t about specs & weapons....but my best friend is a spec, and most of the people I hung out with away from work were either specs or weapons...<b>BUT</b> Crew Dogs are still the best <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

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So what do you guys think of Finance or CBPO folks?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

I think Finance screws up travel vouchers just to piss us off...and CBPO (MPF) gets all the awards because they have no job & just get to take college classes all the damn time...but I'm not "hating" cause I would much rather be on the flight line than either of those two places (hell, I'd rather be back working the hog now than be the QAS/Lead Analyst that I am now!!)


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<i>This A-10 re-engining thing just won't go away. It's been talked to death for twenty years. Based on historical perspective, I don't think it will happen.</i>


<b>Electronic Warfare's Potential Touted by USAF General</b> (Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2004)
[Aerospace Daily & Defense Report, June 24, 2004]

The U.S. military needs to develop a "full spectrum" of electronic warfare (EW) capabilities and should consider accelerating programs that could meet those requirements, a senior Air Force general said June 23.

Unmanned aircraft and space systems are among the new, potential EW platforms that should be looked at, said Gen. Hal Hornburg, commander of Air Combat Command. In addition, while EW typically includes such things as communications- and radar-jamming, Hornburg said he would like to expand its scope to include such new capabilities as disabling enemy tanks without blowing them up...

<b>Fighter upgrades pushed </b>

Beyond EW, <u>Hornburg spelled out a range of upgrades he envisions to sustain the Air Force's A-10 close-air-support aircraft</u> and F-15 and F-16 fighters until they are replaced by the F/A-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The Air Force is equipping the F-15E and F-16 with new radars, and "my prediction is we'll have to do it for the F-15C as well in due course," he said. The Air Force also needs to consider buying new digital radar warning receivers and more precision targeting pods and datalinks for those aircraft, he added. <u>The Air Force also is looking at putting new engines and enhanced precision strike capabilities on the A-10. </u>

Hornburg defended the Air Force's long-term plans to replace the legacy platforms, saying they are still capable but are becoming dated. Although U.S. aircraft faced almost no air threat in the Iraq war, the stealthy F/A-22 and JSF "would have made a difference in Iraq" by allowing the United States to destroy enemy air defenses more quickly, he said. He added that a February exercise in India, in which Indian fighters performed surprisingly well against U.S. F-15Cs, was a "wake-up call" for the United States to modernize its fighter fleet...

- Marc Selinger





THE CRAPTOR ENGINEERING TEAM <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
"The F-22...It's the poo"

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Good article A10Stress but the keys words you had underlined are still "looked at new engines". But hey, I hope we see them. It would be a great asset to the Hawg.

I fear the <b>USAF</b> is giving a lot of lip service to A-10 upgrades, as it does with the CAS mission.

edit (bold)-JMF, I miswrote "A-10" as opposed to "USAF" for some reason...



Edited by - type 7 on Jul 02 2004 7:36 PM

Please elabrate Type 7.

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Please elabrate Type 7.

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IMO, the whole thing with the USAF having never particularly liked the CAS mission in general, nor the A-10 in particular. IMO, nothings really changed, which being the cynic I am, has caused me to not believe things until I've seen them (installed, in this case). We got the EGI nav system, and that was good. There are more avionics upgrades in the works as well as the long-winded "looking into engines" debate that's been promised for years. If it comes, all well and good. I'm just a cynic when it comes to seeing how all these items they want to install are going to get paid for, with tab for the JSF, F/A-22 and V-22 still unpaid, so to speak. And I worry that if we cut any of the A-10 fleet in order to generate the necessary dollars to get upgrades for the airframe, that will sign the death warrant for the jet, as it will become unsustainable, IMO. So far as the CAS mission, my cynicism tells me the AF holds onto it soley so it doesn't lose the $$$ that comes with it, as well as it possibly being a pride issue of not wanting combat jets being flown by 19 year old WO-1s in the Army.

If it was up to me (I were king for a day), I'd have the Army be responsible for their own CAS as the USMC does. Leave the USAF to be the "air and space force" it's looking to be.....whereever that takes it.

Who knows, we might soon see "spaceCAS" (I should be shot at sundown for even saying that word....)<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>



Edited by - type 7 on Jul 02 2004 7:48 PM

When you add the sustainability $$$ required to keep the new PE jets flying and the moneys needed for upcoming SSI inspections the CAS dollors may not be enough counter this bill. If the A-10 starts costing more than it brings in what do you think will happen?

Ugly But Well Hung

Well Dice, I guess the sustainability $$$ and future warrenting new engines will all depend on how the rest of PE goes. With any luck PE will save sustainability by greater mean time between failures and more money into keeping the A-10 FMC. Its all a gamble, we may end up seeing the A-10 go the way of the F-4 and F-111 with jets coming out of PE and straight to the boneyard; or it says and kicks ass until 2028.

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Well Dice, I guess the sustainability $$$ and future warrenting new engines will all depend on how the rest of PE goes. With any luck PE will save sustainability by greater mean time between failures and more money into keeping the A-10 FMC. Its all a gamble, we may end up seeing the A-10 go the way of the F-4 and F-111 with jets coming out of PE and straight to the boneyard; or it says and kicks ass until 2028.


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422, as you say only time will tell. As you may have guessed I don't agree with most of PE because I belive the money could have been better spent in other ways (ECM/Comet pods/better IR counter-mesures) to make the A-10 surviable in the enviroment it was built to operate in...low level and in the enemies face. As as been posted here I belive we are turning the A-10 into a 300 knot F-16 and what made it special in past wars is being lost.

The Hawg does need upgrads to help with the blue-on-blue/target ID and the use of a laser/IR pod is a good thing but, it has been taken to far. I hope someday I will have to eat my words and feel free to remind me in a few years if needed... BTW I like mustard with my crow, what do you like?

Ugly But Well Hung

The engine mod will happen it will be an upgrade of the TF34-100A the new engine will be the TF34-100B. The A/C will be the A/OA-10C. Some of you seem to not really know what your talking about!

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The engine mod will happen it will be an upgrade of the TF34-100A the new engine will be the TF34-100B. The A/C will be the A/OA-10C. Some of you seem to not really know what your talking about!

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See below...

Ugly But Well Hung

Edited by - Dice-man on Jul 14 2004 3:59 PM

ROFL I just checked your profile and see you are the new AFET rep at Pope (how's Dave doing), I'm the X-ACCLO (just retired a couple months ago) here at Hill AFB.

The engines are an unfunded item (as of a couple months ago) and they were not meationed in the model roll request document (which I helped write). The change from the A-10A to the A-10 C is driven by the PE mod only and has nothing to do with the <b>preposed</b> new engines

Ugly But Well Hung

Edited by - Dice-man on Jul 14 2004 4:01 PM