WT Forums

BILLY,JUST GET ME ON A SOAPBX.I'LL WRITE A NOVEL.

HOW MANY JOBS HAVE BEEN LOST IN THE LAST 4 YRS? AND I CANT BRING MYSELF TO BLAME BUSH FOR IT.
THEN LOOK AT THE JOBS THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED.
BIG DIFFERANCE IN THE QUALITY AND PAY. PLUS LOOK AT IT FROM THIS POINT OF VIEW,YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO CREATE MORE JOBS,NOT JUST REPLACE THE ONES YOU LOST,THE WORKFORCE IS BIGGER,PEOPLE AINT RETIREING BECAUSE THEY CANT,ITS A WATERSHED MORE JOBS HAVE BEEN LOST THEN GAINED.
AND THE JOBS OUT SOUCRED WE'RENT LOW PAYING BLUE COLAR FOLKS JOBS,I SAY HIGHER EDUCATED IE. COMPUTERS,ACCOUNTS, ALONG THAT LINE PLUS THE HIGH PAYING BLUE COLAR UNION JOBS.
THE COMPANY KEEPS HEADQUARTERS HERE BUT MAKES IT ALL OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY.
LIKE I SAID AND TRUELY BELIEVE IN PAY SOMEONE A LIVING WAGE AND THEY'LL BE LOYAL AS HELL TO THE COMPANY. PEOPLE SHOULD START AT A COMPANY AND GROW WITH A COMPANY AND END WITH THE SAME COMPANY LIKE OUR FATHERS AND GRANDFATHERS.
I'D PUT THE AMERICAN WORKER UP AGAINST ANY OTHER WORKER AND HE'LL KICK THEIR ASS.
BUT THE OLD GAME OF TIT FOR TAT TAKES OVER,THERE'S NOTHING MORE THAN A SLAP IN YOUR FACE WALKING INTO CONTRACT TALKS AND THE FIRST THING IS THEY TELL YOU "WERE DOING SO BAD" WE JUST AFFORD ANYTHING AND YOU'LL HAVE TO GIVE BACK" THEN YOU PULL UP THEIR STOCK FORECAST AND THEY SHOW 50% GROWTH RATES AND PROFITS ABOVE THE FORECAST.
BUT THE BLUE SHIRTS CANT HAVE ANY OF IT. I WAS ALWAYS HAPPY WITH 3% A YEAR AND MODEST INSURANCE ADJUSTMENTS.
BUT YOU FOUGHT LIKE HELL FOR IT. FAIR IS FAIR SPENDING 12 HOUR DAYS ON A 7 DAY WORK ROTATION PLUS OVERTIME ON TOP OF THAT GETS OLD.

IF YOUR IN FAVOR OF PEOPLE IN THEIR 40'S AND 50'S GOING BACK TO SCHOOL TO GET A 4 YR DEGREE THAN YOU END UP PUSHING KIDS 18-19 OUT OF SLOTS BECAUSE THERE;S JUST NOT ENOUGH SCHOOLS.

WE'LL ALWAYS DIFFER ON THIS SUBJECT
JOB'S
UNION'S
SS#
SOCIAL PROGRAMS
OUTSOURCING
THE LIST GOES ON. BUT THOSE ARE THE VALUES AND CONVICTIONS I HAVE AND I'M TOO OLD AND BELIEVE IN IT TO STRONGLY TO EVER CHANGE.

IT COMES DOWN TO HOW OTHERS SEE YOU BY YOUR ACTIONS AND DEEDS.

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

Edited by - sgtgoose1 on Sep 24 2004 1:09 PM

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Well herein lies a problem. It really is a good thing that to have a gaggle of high paying white collar jobs. Thats what we should be, heads and tales above all other nations. That was the beauty really of Ronny (may the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him). We moved more people from the middle class to the upper class than at any other time in history. But there wasnt as many lower class people heading to the middle class, thus creating a huge disparity and an erosion of , you got it, the middle class. The problem with the United States (and I dont believe we have many of them), is that the lower class people honestly dont have the opportunities of the middle class or upper class. You cant take advantage of free college money, free medical clinics, free money for small businesses etc etc etc, when you dont even know which way is up. I dont know which way is up financially, but I know how to find ways to take advantage of services. Most lower class people dont have a clue and are therfore excluded by ignorance and the inability to get a clue and even take that first step. And lets face it people that are born into priviledge are really not stingy. Just because we dont know how much they give to charities, doesnt mean they dont give exhorbitive amounts away. Most of them do, for the wrong reasons more than likely, but none the less they do. It makes them look good and soothes there consciences. However upper class folks that came from the middle class in the 80's and early 90's and really had to struggle to get there are less likely to be free giving with their money because they have been more subjected to the "people need to be responsible for themselves " preaching than people of previous generations. So as the middle class tax base errodes, so does the ability to help people that really do neeed it. Of course this is a large dillema, not small scale by any means and not soon to go away but it is definetly true that the gap between the haves and have nots is larger than some may think. Its because the middle classes have moved up and not been resupplied from below. I am not claiming I can fix it or that I would even have a clue as to how to start, I am just saying well................I paid attention class and wanted to feel like I know what I am talking about. Although it may well prove to be a feeble attempt.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

_________________
YGBSM !

PERFECT BILLY,YOU GOT TO THE NUT OF THE PROBLEM.
I AGREE WITH YOU 100% ON YOUR THOUGHTS ON CLASSES IN AMERICA.
BUT I'VE READ SOME GREAT CONSPRICY THEORIES ON THE SUBJECT

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO SPELL CHECK MY JIBBERISH.

HERE'S A GOOD RULE TO FOLLOW FOR MYSELF,I GET TONS OF STUFF FROM ORG'S AND CHARITIES THAT WANT AND NEED MONEY.
SO THE WIFE AND I PICKED A LIST THAT WE CONCENTRATE ON AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

SALVATION ARMY
DAV
PVA
THE NATION OF ISRAEL GROUP
NMSS (MUTIPLE S-----) FOLKS
NGWRC

AND LOCAL EVENTS AND SUCH,HABITATE FOR HUMANITY,CHIRSTMAS IN APRIL.

SO YOU CUT BACK OF OTHER THINGS,I LOOK AT IT FROM I'M BLESSED AND ITS ONLY RIGHT TO HELP SOMEONE IN RETURN.

THAT TO ME IS COMPASSIONATE CONSERVITISM.



MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

Edited by - sgtgoose1 on Sep 24 2004 1:29 PM

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

let me throw this to you. I can pay a guy overseas programming 1/3 to 1/4 what I pay a guy here for comperable or better work. No benifits, no medicare, not extra expenses. Hey where should I spend my company's money.

there are some jobs that can not be outsourced but I am telling you the reason you can afford the technology you use today is because of outsourcing. There is no way with current incomes here states side you could aford the vast majority of the technology you now enjoy.


So let try this raise your salary so you can pay for the technology. Oh now now you can not aford the inflation on food, shelter, cars, and other needs that comes due to that raise in salary.

This a much more complex problem then just paying US workers more. You want to kill information technology and access to new programming technology end outsourcing this will then kill the efficiencies our economy enjoys through the application of computers in manufacturing and medicine. Basically your cutting your nose off to spite your face.

No Matt I'm not saying your wrong, because you are right. What I am saying is that there is going to have to be an attitude adjustment within society as a whole as to the underclasses. The government cannot pick up the bills anymore.............period. However there are grave social matters that are falling to our generation that we dont want to have to deal with because we are the reagan generation, the generation of "you need to do it yourself". But not everyone by a long shot can be responsible because they really and truly dont know how to access the means to be able to do so. I also believe that churches as a whole could do tons more to help but are tied up because everyone seems to think that somehow being a fundamental God fearing letter of the law Christian, Jew, or Moslem makes you bad for society. Noone wants to hear that we fall far short of of what the Allmighty wants us to be, whether you think He be the Christ, Allah or El-Shadai. But thats a whole different major problem that I dont think we want to broach here.
Sorry guys I think we hijacked this thread.


By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

_________________
YGBSM !

MATT,

WHERE DID ALL THIS TECH STUFF COME FROM IN THE FIRST PLACE?
GOOD OLD AMERICAN KNOW HOW THATS HOW.
THEN THEY EXPORTED IT OVERSEAS.

BUT TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT LIKE ME YESTERDAY
"HOW WOULD YOU FIX THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE AND THE LOSE OF JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY AND AT WHAT PAY SCALE WOULD YOU PAY AN AMERICAN TO BRING THEM BACK?
AND HOW DO YOU GET YOUR BENEFITS? CHARGE THEM TO THE COMPANY AS A BUISNESS EXPENSE?
WHAT IN YOUR MIND IS A "LIVING WAGE?"

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

"yes but sniper what about the poor man who did not get an education and all he knows how to do is repetively screw a bolt on a 1000 times a day."

That's not my problem...it's his.

Join the military. I hear they're hiring.

"Molon labe".
Leonidas, King of Sparta,
Thermopylae, 480 B.C.

"WHERE DID ALL THIS TECH STUFF COME FROM IN THE FIRST PLACE?
GOOD OLD AMERICAN KNOW HOW THATS HOW.
THEN THEY EXPORTED IT OVERSEAS."

Well, let's use plasma TVs as an example. We invent them, but they cost so much to make that no one can afford them. We then outsource the manufacturing overseas....BANG....now a lot of people can afford them.

It's the same all across the tech sectors.

We're great at inventing stuff, but the unions prevent us from making those items at a competitive price. So if we want to make these various items available to joe schmoe average, we have to outsource.

It's actually pretty simple.

"Molon labe".
Leonidas, King of Sparta,
Thermopylae, 480 B.C.

THATS RIGHT BLAME THE UNIONS,NOT THE CEO'S MAKING MILLIONS SKIMMING OFF THE TOP.
NOT THE COMPANIES PROBLEM STEALING FROM RETIERMENT FUNDS TO GIVE TOP MANAGEMENT MILLIONS IN PERKS
ITS NOT TOM'S FAULT ERON WENT UNDER,IT WAS THE UNION LINES MAN'S FAULT.

GIVE ME A BREAK ,BLAME SOMEONE BUT,NEVER THE PEOPLE WHO CAUSED IT WHILE THEY FLOAT AWAY ON THE GOLDEN PARACHUTES.

AND ANOTHER POINT HERE
es but sniper what about the poor man who did not get an education and all he knows how to do is repetively screw a bolt on a 1000 times a day."

That's not my problem...it's his.

Join the military. I hear they're hiring.

HOW MANY OF THOSE WORKERS SERVED ALREADY IN KOREA,NAM,GENADA,PANAMA,GW1 ETC...... OUR PLANT HAD A 45% VET RATE OF UNION COMPARED TO 10% COMPANY.
SOME OF THEM WERE A LITTLE TOO BUSY SERVEING THEIR COUNTRY THEN SPENDING FULL TIME IN CLASSROOM

ONE DAY IT MIGHT COME BACK AND BITE YOU,NO ONE KNOWS THE FUTURE.


MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

AS FAR AS PLASMA TV'S THE MAN AT THE U OF I WHO INVENTED THEM GOT SWINDLED OUT OF THE PATENT AND TO THIS DAY HIS WIDOW DOESNT GET SQUAT.

GOOD NEWS IS A COMPANY WHO BLUIDS LCD TV'S IS BRINGING MUCH NEEDED JOBS TO DECATUR IL MAKING THE TV'S HERE BECAUSE THEIR BETTER QUALITY .

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Hey I am President of my own startup (code word for spending more than taking in), but at the end of the your damn right I want to skim the cream off of my labor.

This is like the arguement about the buggy whip maker when the car came into being adjust invent, create new opportunities or loose.

I am sorry if I am a cold bastard but I will tell you I am risking every thing on a long shot dream if I make then well it will be worth it if not, oh well I will have pick myself up again.

I agree for someone in your condition this is not reasonable so there should be social net to take care of those who through no fault of their own need help. My belief though is this social net should be a helping hand, not a hand out. For instance my best friend died of cystic fibrosis after a lung transplant. He was never allowed to work because if he did medicare and medicaid would take away his anti rejection medicine. He wanted to work so badly because he was being driven insane from boardom. People in his condition should be encouraged to do what ever they can because a good mental out look would have improved his quality of life. I am not mandating work for him but saying he should have been allowed to work

Now for shaheed who get shot regualarly and high on crack nightly I think there comes apoint where 3 separate shootings your out. I am sorry if he can not accept the help the first few times it is offerec it is time to move on to the next needy person.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Thanx for the moderating Fender, aka Fender Lehrer. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

No problem Snipe. Hope I didnt step on any toes?

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

MATT,
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST SMALL BUISNESS,AND BELIEVE ME,IF I COULD GO BACK TO MY OLD JOBS I WOULD,I HATE BEING TREATED LIKE A SECOND CLASS CITIZEN.
MY OLD EMPLOYER WAS THE ONE WHO RETIERED ME DUE TO SAFTEY CONCERNS,PLUS I COULD ONLY WORK 40 HOURS A WEEK 8 HOURS A DAY BEFORE MY LAST ATTACK.
THEY COULDNT COULDNT CANX ME,BECAUSE OF THE UNION OR BY LAW. (WHICH IS A REAL JOKE)
THEY WANTED TOO BUT LIKE I SAID "I HAVE MS,I AINT STUPID".THEY DIDNT WANT THE FIGHT,NEITHER DID I REALLY.

BUT YOU STILL DIDNT ANSWER THE QUESTIONS,
1. WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY?
2. WHAT TO YOU IS A LIVING WAGE?
THE REST AINT REALLY ANYONES BUISSNESS, MY BAD.
I'M GLAD YOUR LIVING A DREAM YOU HAVE HAD, AND I WISH YOU WELL,I DONT WISH HARM OR SICKNESS ON ANYONE, (HAVE WANTED TO HELP SOME PEOPLE TO FALL DOWN SOME STAIRS) BUT DIDNT ,DAMN UP BRINGING.

THE ONLY DEALING I'VE HAD WITH SMALL BUISNESS IS THE LOCAL STORE AND BARBERS STUFF LIKE THAT.
I'VE DELT MORE WITH CORPRATE AMERICA AND BELIEVE ME THERE'S ALOT OF SCREWING OF GOOD HARD WORKERS OUT THERE, UNION OR NON- BY THOSE CORP'S.


MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Well I can see that this will never go anywhere. But just to inform you Sniper , that guy that can only turn a screw, he is your problem. And he is my problemm. Because he will propogate and there will be more like him. Unless we are prepared to rewrite the Bill Of Rights, and the Constitution and take away every last one of his rights because he only knows how to turn a screw, there will be more like him. And when they have no more bread to eat, they wont be told they can have cake.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

_________________
YGBSM !

I am willing to pay a comperable wage to for the quality and type of work being done. For instance if the prevailing wage is 6 bucks, i am willing to start there and see what I got as an employee. If that employee turns out to be a value to my company then i may be willing to go upto 8 a hour. But in the end I will not be in business if I pay double what a competitor pays.

Now as I build out the company I would be willing to share stock options ect for certain classes of workers. This is very important certain works because they are not skilled and can easily be replaced are not as valuable as grade a programmer who has imagination. Sorry this is business people have to give me a reason to keep them around.

Now if I have someone willing to learn excell, and grow into skilled jobs you really work hard to keep that person because they will become the heart and soul of your company.

As for a living wage I have lived on 6.75 hour as an EMT basic hated it but it motivated me to become a paramedic. Just as the low wage as paramedic motivated me to risk it all now. A living wage to me is relative to how you manage your money and two your lifestyle.

You can not eat stake and flip burgers during the day to pay for it.

Goose, CEOs making exorbinate amounts of money are also partly to blame....i don't disagree.

I am a social darwinist, for all the goods and ills that come with being one.

PS- veterans will always have a leg up for civil service jobs over non veterans.

"Molon labe".
Leonidas, King of Sparta,
Thermopylae, 480 B.C.

And when they have no more bread to eat, they wont be told they can have cake.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson
[/quote]

How very eloquent.....I'll sharpen the guillotine.

".....leave the bodies. The buzzards gotta eat too."
Smitty

I THINK WE'RE AT THE SHAKE HANDS PART ,SO LETS GET A DRINK.

MEXICAN STAND OFF.

PRETTY GOOD OFF TOPIC THREAD. I'M JUST WORN OUT NOW.


MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Disclaimer......Sgt Goose really doesnt believe anything he posted he was just trying to reach 3500 posts. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

_________________
YGBSM !

LOL.

"Molon labe".
Leonidas, King of Sparta,
Thermopylae, 480 B.C.

<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_bow.gif border=0 align=middle>
I WAS HAPPY TO GET TO 3000

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"