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OK, never realized the Vikes won a title.

BTW, McNabb wasn't drafted until 1999, Reid's first year with the Eagles.

Eagles are a 7 1/2 to 8pt favorite this week against the Pack.

Prediction: Eagles 38 Packers 24. The Packers secondary blows.

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

dude...dan marino is definatly one of the best ever! nobody other than maybe montana showed his patience in the pocket, and he was by far one of the best pressure qb's ever, the fact that you actually believe a ring decides a qb's worth is rediculous, if dante...or should i say, when dante never wins a bowl...i'm sure you will think no less of him...c'mon snipe, get real

just sit back, and let the 30mm do the work!!!

Permanently behind the power curve.

If Marino is so great why no title???



"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Its all about championships...Marino was a great NFL QB, but he would trade every record he owns for a Super Bowl win. Joe Willie Namath evolved the QB position to how we know it today, and was the first QB to pass for 4,000 yards...He did this in a 14 game schedule, but what made Joe famous, and paved his path to the Hall of Fame was his victory over the Colts in Super Bowl III.

I love Rich Gannon as a football player, and he is a great NFL QB, was the 2002 NFL MVP, set several NFL single season records that year, but the only one that matters is the one he set in the Super Bowl for the most pics in a game...


Major League pitchers are judged by their winning percentage. Being a 20 game winner in the majors is the yard stick the great ones are measured by. NFL QB's IMHO should be measured the same way. Jim McMahon won...period, and won himself a ring in "85" IMHO thats what makes an "elite" QB.... Otto Graham, Norm Van Brocklin, Bart Starr, Joe Namath, Lenny Dawson, Bob Greise, Terry Bradshaw, Johhny Unitas, Kenny Stabler, Roger Staubach, Jim Plunkett, Joe Montana, Joe Theisman, Jimmy MacMahon, Phill Simms, Troy Aikman, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Steve Young, Brett Favre, John Elway,Tom Brady, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner....Not a bad group.

When an NFL QB straps it on beginning in the pre-season...His goal isn't "I am going to lead the league in completion percentage" its...I am gonna hold that Lombardi trophy in January and go to Disney Land....

As far as homework goes... Daryl Lamonica, Kenny Anderson, Jim Hart, Ken O'Brien, Dave Kreig even Steve Grogan all had better career stats then Bob Greise...Guess which QB is in the Hall of Fame? Also guess which one won 2 Super Bowls...

Come on Vette...The Vikes got waxed by the Chiefs in the 1970 Super Bowl. Hank Stramm ran on them all day long. They may have won the NFL title that year, but the NFL was essentialy the NFC at that point, AFL proved it was as just as comptetitive and the Super Bowl was the World Championship, so no....your Vikes never won a title.

Snipes Eagles won those titles when the NFL was the only game in town., and there was a clear degration in the quality of play with the other leagues.

I mean your argument for the Vikes in 69, is like me saying that the Raiders won a Title in 68, despite the fact the Packers kicked their asses in the Super Bowl that year. AFL and the NFL where merely confrences after Joe Namath and the Jets beat the Colts and created parity between the two leagues.















Edited by - chadrewsky on Dec 02 2004 11:59 AM

ok...the topic of what makes a great qb is notw a pointless one, i think we agree to disagree!! i feel that a great qb is made in his leadership and team ability. even now, payton manning is looked at by many as one of the best ever, and colts don't have a snowballs chance in hell of the trophy this year, but manning is still one of the best, despite no ring yet!! but like i asked before, is one of the best running backs of all time barry sanders less of a back???

on another topic...who does anyone feel is the sleeper team?? the NFL's top 3 are the PATS, EAGLES, and STEELERS, but they are by far not the only teams out there, how do the masses feel about teams like seattle, indi, or even the vikings (as much as i don't wanna say it, haha). this should be good!!!

just sit back, and let the 30mm do the work!!!

Permanently behind the power curve.

Two Sleeper teams for you...

Green Bay & San Diego

Neither are powerhouses, but both have the talent to knock somone off in the playoffs...

Runningbacks like the rest of the team rely on the QB...Even more so in the 70's when QB's often called their own games...All of the Super Bowl winning QB's at the very least had elite status as leaders, even if their talent was mediocre. Walter Payton...As great as he was (IMHO the best ever) did not win a Super Bowl untill Jimmy MaMahon was leading the team. The Bears did make the playoffs when MacMahon was hurt, but never went far without him...

Runningbacks need great QB's to win championships, but Great QB's can get it done without great Tailbacks...

Case in Point: 1976 Raiders...(No 1000 yard rusher on the team)
But a HOF QB IMHO in Kenny Stabler





Edited by - chadrewsky on Dec 02 2004 3:06 PM

You're about to watch Green Bay get undressed and spanked this week.

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

hmmm...green bay and san diego.
i like green bay, brett favre could make any team a winner in my opinion. i think GB's only downfall is they are an emotional team, when they get in a rut, favre really has to make a few good plays before the team will pull their respective heads out. i don't think they will be a bowl contender, but they will pull off a few surprises. i really don't know much about san diego, not a team i follow too much, but alwaya a contender. how do you feel about the colts. i think manning has a lot of the leadership favre does, but is it enough to carry them past the mighty pats!
also, how about the chiefs! one of the best tight end offenses in the league, and very hard to defend between that and priest holmes!
as long as the cowboys still suck i will be happy!!

just sit back, and let the 30mm do the work!!!

Permanently behind the power curve.

THANK YOU...YOU ROCK!!! finally a bit of discussion from an educated person!! i very much agree with your stance on the qb/ring issue! and part of what you said about the NFL loving green bay is true, but you have to admit they are decent team! there is noway however GB will bea phili in a real head to head game, it would be a very fluke victory!!
well done!!

just sit back, and let the 30mm do the work!!!

That was Chad's argument.

Do you guys actually read who posts what?

Pack has no chance this week.

None.

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

"I don't think the Pack will beat the Eagles this week either, but never underestimate the power of the Cheese - I swear they some of the luckiest (or opportunistic) when it comes to calls and big plays - except of course for that 4 and 24 or what not that the Eagles converted despite this alledged luck."

It was 4th and 26, and the Pack has no chance.

This year's Eagles team- both on Offense and Defense- is NOTHING like last years team.

Far more talent all across the board.

And the Packers defense- particularly their secondary- BLOWS.

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

They're ranked 28th against the pass.

Their top corner is a Philly reject that is known for getting beat deep.

The Eagles have the 2d best deep threat in the game.

BTW, the Eagles have allowed the fewest points in the NFL this season.

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Dude you should spend as much time on 47 as you do talking football. And arent you a soccer player anyway ? Go run into the breakroom and get me a coffee ! <img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

_________________
YGBSM !

Vette...I ask one question, and one question only...Did any of those QB's you emphaticaly touted win a Super Bowl ring? Super Bowl jewelry offsets the pain of an degenerative athritic throwing shoulder alot better then winning the 1984 NFL Quaterback Effiencey Rating Award....

Don't diss Mark Rypien to bad, he is a local boy (Spokane, WA) and a former WSU Cougar standout...Plus he had good seasons, and was also a Super Bowl MVP. Forgot to mention Doug Williams as well, lol...Maybe the all time best QB ever...

Anyways I am just yanking your chains some. Fran Tarkenton was a good QB, he just lacks a Super Bowl ring <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Bud Grant got so pissed off about his Super Bowl losses that he moved to Canada...Marv Levy mopped up the senior Bingo league with vengance after blowing 4 straight...

As far as the Packers go...

You don't need a good secondary when your pass rush is in the QB's face. You know that saying...."On any given Sunday..."

Packers defense has played better since they canned their defensive cordinator. I dunno, Pack scares me this year for some reason...

Don't mind my observations...The quality of the football being played by my Raiders has forced me to have a negative bent on the NFL in general. Something about Kerry "Have a drink" Collins QB play has depressed me to great lengths. I am just a sad man these days...I haven't even gotten into what the Chicago Cubs did to me this year. Maybe I will start watching the Chinese Ping Pong League or something....I here Bejing has a good team this year...

Edited by - chadrewsky on Dec 03 2004 10:51 AM

It has???

They canned their D coordinator after last season, and have proceeded immediately into mediocrity.

The Eagles allow the fewest points in the NFL.

The Eagles are one of the top scoring teams in the NFL(top 5 at least)

The Pack has the 28th ranked pass defense.

This game has mis-match written all over it.

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Rypien was a scrub overall, but in 1991 he had one of the great seasons any NFL QB has ever had.

That was also a tremendous football team as a whole.

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Since Bob Slowik was promoted to defensive coordinator he has adobted a more agressive blitizing style, not unlike what Jim Johnson does in Philly...

Grady Jackson is healthy again, and playing well...Green Bay's two young CB's Ahmed Carrol & Joey Thomas are playing better...

Yes they gave up 448 passing yards to the Rams, and I am not saying their D is 1985 Chicago Bear material, but they seem to be playing better with the new scheme, and they can make big plays when they have to....

I am not even a Packers fan, so I have no idea why I am even in this discussion. But experience as an arm chair NFL enthusiast has shown me never to count out the Favre Factor, plus he is on two of my fantasy teams <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>




Edited by - chadrewsky on Dec 03 2004 11:11 AM

Green bay is going to get torched this week.

The Eagles have defeated all 8 NFC opponents they've faced this year by 11 pts or more.

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

That would be fine with me, providing Favre has adequate numbers to pad his fantasy stats. Tell Dawkins to play soft in the 4th Quarter, and have your Eagles score quick, no time consuming drives to keep #4 on the bench...

Fraid i can't do that lad.

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche