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Just wondering how you guys/gals felt about the dents on the nose of the hogs caused by tanker boom hits? I know that every one of our jets has at least one, and some have several! It has never been an issue until now! As we are getting close to an ore/ori everyone is scanning the depths of the tech data to ensure we don't miss anything. Well in the process we've found out that most of our jets have dents that are out of limits according to depot standards.
Can someone enlighten me on how that could be bad suddenly when they've been flying that way for the past 13 years that we've had them.
Also.....If we do pop them back out they will most surely re-appear the next time the Lt. comes back from a nvg tanker mission!

Any thoughts?
Thanks!

LOTS of stuff comes up before an ORI. Did you know we have to blow out -60 hoses before hooking them up to the jet(F-117s, but I'm sure there's gems on the hog)? Don't know how long you've been in maintenance, but things get all messed up in that time frame. Before the ORI here, we had an ORE, and a week of twelves before that. At least four weeks of twelves. I can't imagine doing three months in the desert, or do they manage to do eight hour shifts in the sandbox?

"Some pup"
Nickname by Fenderstrat72

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Evil is evil, no matter how small.

I'm starting my 13th year on the hog! This will be my 3rd ORI so i know how "ANAL" it can get as you get close. This one just seems to be bothering my more than the other petty things they come up with!?
Oh..
I did 6 months in Kuwait/Iraq this last time and we worked 12's+. You've gotta keep the bullets flying 24/7 ya know!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

I COULD DEAL WITH A FEW DINGS,BUT WHEN YOU GET NEW PAINT JOB AND IT COMES BACK WITH A "SCRATCH" ALONG THE WHOLE NOSE THRU THE THE EYE AND THE CREW BLOCK AND YOU GET THE "TAC" SALUTE IT PISSES YOU OFF<img src=newicons/madani.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/madani.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_cussing.gif border=0 align=middle>.
AND THEN WHEN YOU FIND OUT THE "STICK ACTUATOR" WAS LAUGHING ABOUT IT<img src=newicons/anim_furious.gif border=0 align=middle>
THATS WHEN YOU TELL YOUR PILOT AND LET HIM DEAL WITH IT!<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>
I GOT A SIX PACK AFTER THAT .

BUT DID SEE A HOG TAKE A TURKEY BUZZARD SQUARE ON THE NOSE,PILOT HAD NO CHOICE,EITHER THE NOSE OR THE WINDSCREEN AND IT TOOK MONTHS FOR DEPOT TO FIX IT.CAVED IT IN LOOKED LIKE A BASKETBALL WOULD FIT IN IT

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Also.....If we do pop them back out they will most surely re-appear the next time the Lt. comes back from a nvg tanker mission!

Any thoughts?
Thanks!


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Hehe. Have seen some of those planes come back with dents from the Maj's and LtCol's too, lol.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
LOTS of stuff comes up before an ORI. Did you know we have to blow out -60 hoses before hooking them up to the jet(F-117s, but I'm sure there's gems on the hog)? Don't know how long you've been in maintenance, but things get all messed up in that time frame. Before the ORI here, we had an ORE, and a week of twelves before that. At least four weeks of twelves. I can't imagine doing three months in the desert, or do they manage to do eight hour shifts in the sandbox?

"Some pup"
Nickname by Fenderstrat72
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Hehe. Forgot to tell you I'm in the 8th now. 117 sure is one of the more uncomfortable planes to get in and out of. You ready for our upcoming ORI.......take 2? lol.

Here's one for you. Going air refueling one night, after coming back into my spot, crew chief goes through the shutdown procedure and we shut down, then asks me to pull the emergency AR handle to cycle the AR door open just prior to both of us disconnecting comm cords. All well and good. In the debrief, the guy I was flying with mentioned that he'd forgotten to tell me in our brief to cycle the AR door open normally prior to shutting down so maintenance could postflight the door area. Told him no problem, I'd popped it open with the emergency AR handle. I then get chewed out and told never to open the AR door that way, except in emergency.

So what's the true story?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

IMO, most our 117s are static displays that come complete with their own hangar, lol. MX is doing the best they can with them, but some of these birds are just run out.

On a sparate note, we're gonna have some good ramp space available on the main ramp at Holloman. With the German AF F-4s closed up, and the GAF Tornado fleet reducing in size from about 45 jets to about 15 due to defense cuts in the German military, all we're gonna have on the huge main ramp is nothing but 12 T-38s and the aero club T-41s.

...there'll be a ton of room for F-16 RTU to work out of after Luke closes down....(nothing official, only my personal prediction as BRAC 2005 looms....)



Edited by - Type 7 on Dec 30 2004 5:00 PM

gifted,
You mentioned that you are now having to blow out -60 hoses before attaching them to your F-117 aircraft. On every aircraft I worked on that had a pneumatic starter, and there were a few,your first action after starting the unit was to blow out the hose. On the F-4, at one base, if QC saw you hooking up the hose without blowing it out you bought yourself a writeup. You would shear the starter shaft in a heartbeat, and engine folks got a 6-pack from the crewchief who failed to do the task.Also,the hose lining could come loose, and get blown up into the starter. I learned the task in T-38 FTD long ago, and it stuck in my mind throughout my career.

Richard E.RAY

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Richard Ray (RayBoy)
A-10A 80-142

Hey Hogfixer you may want to go out and get the ORE / ORI report from the Bradley guys and the Baltimore guys. They were unfortunately in my opinion only the sacrificial lambs for the A10 community . They were the first on the post OIF deployment schedule for the ORE / ORI's. I know for a fact that they , especially Bradley got hit hard more thanonce on the dents in the nose. I was on the EOR crew for their gen / regen /ORE and they got a couple birds rejected on their generation excercise for that reason. Thats not a laughing matter when you get to that point. But their report has got a bundle of need to do items. I am sure that your flight chiefs can get that off the web.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

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YGBSM !

Actually I've already read them and briefed the rest of the CC's.
I've also read several F-16 units reports as well.
I also went to Willow Grove and assisted them during the ORE but no "Official IG" types there so the nose thing never came up.
I'm hoping depot will "Loosen" the restrictions a bit and make life a heck of alot easier?
Please?<img src=newicons/anim_bow.gif border=0 align=middle>

If I remember right the whole nose section is being redesigned to make it more "user friendly" and harder to dent. Don't remember how this is being done (and maybe I'm remembering wrong) because I lost interest pry to retirement. <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

What do you guys need, the limitations for dents relaxed, better repair procuders, what? I have contacts in the SPO both in engineering and the ES side of the house, if the field is having trouble with this issue and needs help from the SPO maybe I can help.

The best/right way to handle this would be for the unit to go through HQ/ACC/DRA10 (TSGT Grimes or MR. Jeff Zep) and have them bring-up the issue to the SPO but, if I can help get the ball rolling I will.

Ugly But Well Hung

hehe, dents in the nose. I've never been through an ORI yet, I keep PCSing right before/after them. I remember when I first got to Pope, (in 1999) I was doing a Doc Rev and there was a job in the K from 1996 for the nose being dented, and it even had a doc # for a nose having been ordered, so I signed it off 'dents withing limits' and canceled the doc # just to keep my K clean. My last jet at pope, 141, had one the the most jacked up noses there, this is a small pic of it:
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/crewchiefsmakeithappen/nose141.jpg" border=0>
and another jet at Pope...
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/crewchiefsmakeithappen/nose192.jpg" border=0>

We had one take a birdstrike while I was at Osan, dented the nose <i>really</i> bad, like a good 8 inches deep, I didn't get a chance to take a picture before it was repaired, but here's the after...
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/crewchiefsmakeithappen/nose247.jpg" border=0>

If an ORI is <i>that</i> anal about those kinds of things, hell, you'd have to change like evey canopy out there. I can't recall the exact limits for scratch depths, but I do remember it being a ridiculosly small number, like .001" or something along those lines.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand Binary, and those who don't.

Maybe Mudd or Coach can expound on this, but in my last 3 year tour in the Hawg at Eielson it never happened that the boom hit the nose. Not once. That'd be a pretty big deal treated nearly like a midair. I'd imagine those dents are caused by something else...

ATTACK!!!!!!!

Dude that is an abortion of a repair. Looks like Franken Hawg.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

_________________
YGBSM !

From the jets I looked at here, the Eielson noses got bumped fairly often. Maybe the tankers over here just aren't as good as the ones you use there.

I almost killed a boomer on a pond crossing. I was flying my jet, fresh out of the paint barn to Kuwait. The first AAR out of Pope, he stabs me right below the UAARSI and leaves this perfect imprint of the boom receptacle in the new paint job.

There are two types of boomers, the lazy and the aggressive. The lazy ones will never leave a mark, but it is frustrating to get gas from them. The aggressive ones are easier, but more likely to whack you around a bit. Then at night with no lights, it gets even better.

Coach

Do I sense a couple "There I was" stories coming on ?

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

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YGBSM !

Oo yesh, story time!<img src=newicons/bounce.gif border=0 align=middle>

I don't recall seeing alot of dented hogs at Spang, I didn't see many hog up close in the first place though.

We don't use the -60s pneumatic for engines(at least weapons), the cooling system for the avionics uses bleed air, and it's alot easier than hauling out the monster of an AC(no C-10s) for it. I suppose having the hose lining coming off would be a problem though.

Hey Type7, good to hear there's another Black Sheep on the board. The only thing I could see is if the crew chief wanted to ops check the emergency AR, but didn't want to mess with hauling out the AGE and stuff. I've seen them have you guys do the lights and stuff prior to shutting down, so it is possible.

"Franken Hawg." A new A-10 legend!<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Some pup"
Nickname by Fenderstrat72

_________________
Evil is evil, no matter how small.

Thanks for all the replies! Hey Dice...I know that our QA has been in contact with someone from depot but I don't think there's been an "official" response yet? In the meantime, when a jet rolls into phase we are pulling the water wash bottle and anything else that's in the way and using the old air hammer method! Everyone else has write-ups in their K! And don't even try to order one because they don't exist!! It would be like winning the lottery to get one in a reasonable amount of time!!
That brings us to the Frankenjet repair jobs! It's the only option left for the badly dented!
Our Structural guys are really overjoyed about the whole thing I'm sure!<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

If I remeber right theres only 674 rivets in the nose section!?
But seriously, with all the AMARC jets getting their wings removed, doesn't that free up an adequate supply of nose sections that can be referb'd?

I know when I first got to DM in 2001 the Lobo's had a birdstrike that required them to remove the nose section and repair it. But it did take some time (like the entire time I was in MRT!)



"SSgt stripes coming July 2K5!"

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3 Branches down... 2 to go!
Put on your tinfoil hats, the black choppers are coming, and I'm calling them in.
Former DCC OA-10A T/N 80-278

WASH BOTTLES<img src=newicons/anim_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
I DONT KNOW A THING ABOUT ANY WASHBOTTLES,DO YOU BILLY?<img src=newicons/madani.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_furious.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_cussing.gif border=0 align=middle>

JUST TELL THEM ITS "BATTLE DAMAGE"

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

I dont know who the hack was that put mine in. <img src=newicons/idea.gif border=0 align=middle> Got any ideas Goose ?

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

Edited by - Hawg166 on Dec 31 2004 7:06 PM

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YGBSM !

<img src=newicons/Whatever_anim.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_bow.gif border=0 align=middle>

ABDR <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

I'll see what I can found out Monday. I know I saw a new nose section in the engineers section and I belive it's being designed for eaiser removel and installtion...more to come.

Weasel, I belive they are drill-to-fit so we can't use the one from AMARC.

Ugly But Well Hung

Goose is a hack, Goose is a hack, Goose is a hack. <img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

_________________
YGBSM !

WHAT CAN I SAY,THEY SHOULDNT LET CREWDAWGS HAVE A BOX FULL OF NEAT "TOYS" TO DO ABDR WITH.
I RAN OUT OF (JB WELD) MONTHS AGO.<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

MONEY TALKS,B.S. JUST PILES UP.

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

I knew I wasn’t crazy I did see a nose cone in the engineers area a while back! They are working with a company locally to have new cone manufactured so they can get them placed into supply, sorry to say the company’s cone failed “first article” testing so they have to resubmit a new design. You will not be seeing new cones soon but, you can help by placing them on orders so the demand rate rises and the priority goes up.

I’m having them look at the limitations to see if they are “correct” and if…maybe… they can be relaxed a bit. I would not hold out much hope because with a redesign in the works it may not be a priority. All you can do is keep submitting wavers to the SPO and keep flying them boys. One ray of hope is if the dents cause to much airflow problems over the AOA vane (PE/IFFCC removed the reverse scoops just for this reason) the priority could go up.

Ugly But Well Hung

Edited by - Dice-man on Jan 04 2005 4:25 PM