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Will the A-10C still employ the Pave Penny system even though it's capable of carrying the Sniper and Litening II pods? And, if so, why?

This topic has been covered before but a concrete answer was never given.

Thanks-

Pave penny is a laser spot Reciever Only, and permanently mounted, and more economical to maintain. It allows the Aircraft to maintain a fulltime supportive role as a CAS platform. This is as system in use for a great deal of time, and high proficiency on the user side in experiance and training. This system is fleetwide

The Targeting pods can do both. But are mission oriented. If it is not needed it is not carried. Limited supply, still maturing during its installment to the Fleet, and not in widespread use at the moment. It is also a costly system to maintain, procure. Limited in experiance and trained Pilots to operate it.

As far as conjuctive use and the avionics of the two systems, that more than likely falls into a Tecnical security area. The way that it is used is maturing during the hog upgrades, really unknown at this early in the game where the future lays for both.

"RickUSN-

That was intelligent and useful Mudd.

But it certainly is what Ive come to expect.

Mindless babbling with no intent to either enlighten or inform.

Edited by - mrmudd on Mar 17 2005 6:45 PM

Couldn't have said better. Though many people argue that PAVE PENNY is not that maintainable, and getting worse every year. Your right though, its around to stay.

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Couldn't have said better. Though many people argue that PAVE PENNY is not that maintainable, and getting worse every year. Your right though, its around to stay.
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Rarely used the thing, and never in combat. HUD symbology may or may not be in the actual place the laser is pointing, but then again, it's not for targeting per se, mainly for SA.

No current capibilities with be removed from the aircraft with PE.

Ugly But Well Hung

The lack of funding for modernization from the depot will eventually starve this capability. A lot of the support equipment is obsolete and unsupportable. Pave Penny(TISL)is going down the same path as HARS, it's not widely used and has a high mean time between failure rate. They are both legacy systems that do not have high visibilty. They do not spark a lot of interest when it comes to upgrades. Until there is a targetting pod for everyone, I would imagine we will keep Pave Penny around and a few band aids. I would be curious at what the overall cost of maintaining this system is.



Edited by - kungfu on Mar 19 2005 09:06 AM

Me too kungfu. Especially since there or NO more benches or plans to replace or repair test equipement at the shop level. Each PENNY shop has to 100% to keep the AC sim, DET test set, and bench functioning are there not doing so well. Moody's got parted out with the closure and DM using an entire setup and a CANN bench. The sytem as a whole is exacly what you said "legacy"

Guys i wouldnt look at the situation as to when they were conceived and brought into service. The Pave Penny is a Very valuable system.

The problem is Funding, Not the fact it is Legacy.

The answer is it is not being defended and being neglected. I believe it should stay.

Back when I flew with target pods. WE never had them Available, because they were always being " Loaned" off. Several wings were handicapped in the First WWG1 Becasue the F15E's didnt have any in inventory to validate their mission.

As long as theirs a Hung dependent instrument. Expect to never have it for the intende mission needs. IF they dump the Pave Penny and the Ground Guys lose Comms, But you know they are operating the designator during an engagement and for some reason you didnt have a TGT Pod available.....You can see how quickly for a pilot this is like poking your eyebals out with lead pencils. The Penny was conceived installed as a mission system.

Type 7 Brought up a relative point. Its not necceasrily depending on the Instrument for the "Sight alighnment-Sight picture of targeting" ITs purposes is to insure that the Ground Guys and the pilot are working on the same page. Yes their are other tools that help in this EGI/INS coords. But the fact remains. Each tool has a benefit of use and should not be discounted.

Just because something new and shiny comes along doesnt meen it always superceeds a current system.

If that was the case. We dont need grease pens and stand by pippers anymore. (idiotic), No need to teach Degrade Bombing as a root skill becasue the HARs, CCRP/CCIP etc "computer absed systems became available"

The Aircraft is their as an asset, and not a systems liability to the Ground Force Commanders in their case needs.

Are we forgettting the importance of why the aircraft was built to keep up the fight under dire circumstances?

"RickUSN-

That was intelligent and useful Mudd.

But it certainly is what Ive come to expect.

Mindless babbling with no intent to either enlighten or inform.

Edited by - mrmudd on Mar 19 2005 3:35 PM

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If that was the case. We dont need grease pens and stand by pippers anymore. (idiotic), No need to teach Degrade Bombing as a root skill becasue the HARs, CCRP/CCIP etc "computer absed systems became available"

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I fully agree. But it's scary to see the new mindset that's evolving.....that is, guys not bombing or shooting due to a slight degradation. I can remember a couple of guys that had degraded systems while out on a flight over in theatre, one during a time to put down weapons. The flight RTBd and F-16s that were inbound hit the target instead of the A-10s dropping while slightly degraded, which should've been no problem based on what they had and that there was no troops or frat problem involved. Of course I wasn't on scene at the time, so I don't wish to Monday morning QB, but all I'm saying is that I hope with all this new whiz-bang technology that we're not dropping out the basics. Sure, back stateside we all do a few flights (some more than others) of dropping in HARS or STBY pipper, but should this be "kept stateside" or brought forward to combat? I believe the latter. I fear we're going down the road of the former, though.

I think we've gotten off topic. Of course PENNY will stay on the aircraft as a system. The question is employment and configuration. With a Target pod on the aircraft that will free up a PENNY pod for another aircraft that may not have the PENNY it needs. There would be no reason, other than simple redundancy to have both on config within Suite III. We are adding capability both ways.

The coments I was making was to emphisis that TISL is getting increasingly hard to maintain and is WAY past its intended life span. It might be wishful thinking but I'd like to see a ramp of A-10 with no TISL pylons and all target pods, just my 2 cent though.