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Dice

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>, but I got the following from the 52 FW as part of our request to come out and photograph door art for your book...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I got a note from the 81 FS. They said that the 81FS does not have any "door art" on the jets. Apparently of a few years ago, USAFE made our jets comply with the regulatory guidance on painting aircraft, so there is no unique markings besides the tailflash on our jets.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I suspected as much after the Panthers had to be taken off the engine cowlings. There is only one jet left with it, and that is 77-0264, the one on the stick near the old main gate...

Again, sorry about that.

Cheers! M2

When I was flying with Spang last fall, I didn't notice any door art.

Coach

No need to be sorry you guys tried, if there's nothing to shot...not your fault! This has been the way of door art for the life of the A-10, one day it OK, and the next it all comes off.

I guess that's what makes it so fun to collect, knowing it's kinda a taboo subject to some yet....it still happens! <img src=newicons/saevil.gif border=0 align=middle>

Thanks for trying!!

Ugly But Well Hung

Let me be the first to raise a <img src=newicons/anim_bs.gif border=0 align=middle> flag.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

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YGBSM !

On the subject of dissapearing door art, I realized yesterday after talking with a friend about Eielson realigning, that that would mean <i>another</i> unit of door art gone. That would leave Osan as the only active duty unit with door art, and then the Gaurd and Reserve.

"The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other." - Ronald Reagan

You're right jackb and if you take into account how long some of the same art can stay on a Guard/Reserve jet, new art will be few and far between. <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

You're special (the A-10), says the Air Force, but not as special as the B-52s, B-2s, B-1s, KC-135....ect! Come on...friggin KC-135 (sorry 30mm) and KC-10s can have nose art but the A-10 can't? Guess their hitsory is longer and more important than the yours!? <img src=newicons/anim_bs.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_bs.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ugly But Well Hung

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Y KC-135....ect! Come on...friggin KC-135 (sorry 30mm) and KC-10s can have nose art but the A-10 can't? <img src=newicons/anim_bs.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_bs.gif border=0 align=middle>
Ugly But Well Hung
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>


Joe, I've noticed the 157th ARW here at Pease has removed all their nose art. The only thing they have left is the one "Lets Roll", everything else was taken off sometime last year.



TG out

<img src="http://www.x-plane.org/home/topgun/Personnel/A10logo.jpg" border=0>

_________________
If it Flys, shoot it

No offense taken, dice. I agree 100%. <img src=newicons/anim_bs.gif border=0 align=middle> I'll have to check with 30MM jr...I don't know if they have any nose art left other than the "Let's Roll", either.

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson

WAIT UNTIL THIS ROUND IS DONE,MORLE IS LOW,CREWDOGS PISS'ED-OFF AND SUCH,THEN THE NOSEART STARTS SHOWING BACK UP,LITTLE BY LITTLE.

TELL THEM ITS A MORALE BUILDER,

IF YOU GET OVER TO THE SANDBOX OR AFGANYLAND OR WHERE THEY SAY TERROR LIVES SLAP THAT PUPPY ON THERE! WHEN A HOG GOES IN TO COMBAT,IT HAS TO HAVE ART ON IT,ITS THE UN-WRITTEN RULE.

SO PACK PAINTS,AN IDEA,SEALER SO ON AND PUT THE ART ON,WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO TO YOU? SEND YOU HOME?<img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_lol.gif border=0 align=middle>

WITH THE NEW PRINTERS AND COMPUTERS YOU COULD HAVE ONE ALREADY DONE AS A FULL SHEET DECAL,PUT IT ON AND SPRAY ACRYLIC SEALER ON IT,LATER ITS EASIER TO REMOVE IF THEY WANT TO BE <img src=newicons/anim_cussing.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=newicons/anim_bs.gif border=0 align=middle>ABOUT IT.
IT WONT COME OFF UNLESS YOU WANT IT TOO,I HAD THAT BUMPER STICKER ON FOR 3 MONTHS,UNTIL SOMEONE STARTED SCREWING WITH.

DOOR ART WILL NEVER DIE,IT MIGHT HIDE,BUT IT WONT DIE.

GOOSE

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>DOOR ART WILL NEVER DIE,IT MIGHT HIDE,BUT IT WONT DIE.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> Well said, Goose!

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson

I think the Air Force would be really hard pressed to get the art off of our doors. One reason is, is that our CO and the pilots really like it and even go half to pay for a lot of it. Secondly we have a great relationship with a lot of local busineses and Michael Dooney's studio is one of them. His art is kind of a big thing at the base.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

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YGBSM !

The AF could make you take the art off the same way they made the actives do it...just enforce the rules.

Who paid for it or who your unit is hooked up with doesn't mean jack. Do you think the AF paid for the art on the AD jets? No, the crew dawgs and the pilots did.

It is an LG rule that drives this, not ops by the way. We like it as much as you guys do. Is timing just coincidental that the art made its disappearance when maintenance started running maintenance again? Now that ops doesn't own maintenance anymore, time to quit whining and get the rule changed.

Coach

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The AF could make you take the art off the same way they made the actives do it...just enforce the rules.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Each commands AFI's are written differently and the only ones who define nose art as "specialized artwork applied to <b>any</b> area of the aircraft" is ACC and USAFE. They also add..<b>Waivers for fighter and other aircraft will not be entertained".</b> pretty well stops that doesn't it.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

It is an LG rule that drives this, not ops by the way. We like it as much as you guys do. Is timing just coincidental that the art made its disappearance when maintenance started running maintenance again? Now that ops doesn't own maintenance anymore, time to quit whining and get the rule changed.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Art has made it's disappearance a number of times in the past decade both when ops owned maintenanace and since it fell back under the LG, one has nothing to do with the other as far as my research shows. What matters is who (ACC/wing commander/base command/ops/maintenance ect) wants to inforce the ACCI at any one point in time.

The Guard/Reserves/PACAF seem to have written their AFI not to include the door in the deinition of "nose art" or at the very least given their units an "out" to be able to do door art .

You're right it is time to quit whining and chance things but, it seems the only ones who need to chance is ACC and USAFE. Look what happen at Spang, they have had door art and the panther on the engines for years but, now all of a sudden they have to go...why? The AFI's haven't chance just the leadership and how he/they feel about it.

Ugly But Well Hung

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Each commands AFI's are written differently and the only ones who define nose art as "specialized artwork applied to any area of the aircraft" is ACC and USAFE. They also add..Waivers for fighter and other aircraft will not be entertained". pretty well stops that doesn't it. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Waivers for fighter and other aircraft will not be entertained...except for Popes tiger teeth. I hate how rules like this are invented for, well, really no logical reason at all. Who does door art hurt? Noone. But, like Goose said, door art will never die. It might hide, but it will never die. If I wind back up in ACC, you can bet I'll be bringing paint with me on my next deployment. It's easier to ask for forgiveness than beg for permission.

"The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other." - Ronald Reagan

On a similiar subject, how about mission markers? I seem to remember the 926th's jets post Desert Storm, with all sorts of mission marker/sihoulettes of enemy systems on the left sides of the planes in red. Right after returning to CONUS, the markings promptly disappeared.........

The art thing is interesting beacuse in the 117 community, many of the aircraft have "bay art", or art on the inside fore or aft of the left bomb bay door. A few of our jets still have mission markers (GBU-12 stencils) on the left side under the canopy in white. How long these markers will stay is anyone's guess. And why they have the door art still is anyone's guess too (in the sense of I'm surprised the regs nazis haven't demanded them overpainted yet).

We have mission markers on our jets also. We started doing it after Deny Flight .

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

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YGBSM !

Type7, it seems to me that weapons bay art is the wave of the future. As you said the F-177 does it now (also the B-2 I believe) and I think the F-22 and F-35 will do the same thing.

One AFI is witten to only include the exterior of the aircraft which allows, depending on how you interpret it, art on the door or, in this case the weapons bay.

Art to me is not just an image but a link to "out" past and to the future, I know that sounds corny but I believe it's true. There are people trying to track-down info on nose art from all eras, WWII, Korea, Vitenam, ect. and we are "living" our history today. If you look at door art it not only represents the people who fly and maintain the aircraft but it's also a sign of the times. I have art from bases which have been closed for over a decade and it's the only <b>personal</b> link to the people who worked and flew the aircraft at those bases.

One of the best moments I've had in my art collecting is when aircraft 700 went down at Eielson and we lost the pilot along with the aircraft (don't take that the wrong way guys). I received an email about two weeks later from the pilots sister saying how she had found her brothers door art on my site and how it had made her feel closer to her brother. It was a connection to her brother, and an aircraft she knew nothing about, that she needed at that time.

<img src=newicons/smiley_salute.gif border=0 align=middle>

If you look at it isn't door art our "nose art" of the Cold War?!

Ugly But Well Hung

Edited by - Dice-man on May 21 2005 05:57 AM

All the jets here at Eielson that were on the March-Sept OEF deplyment to Bagram still have the mission markers on the foward left side of the fuselage. The markers are not of what they hit, but what was fired, either 30mm, bombs, or mavs.

"The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other." - Ronald Reagan

THE 23RD'S TEETH OUR PART OF A UNITS HISTORY AND AVG MARKINGS AND HAVE A "SPECIAL WAVIER FROM AIRFORCE"
EVEN BACK IN THE ENGLAND AFB DAYS DURING DCC SCHOOL WE GOT TO LOOK AT THE SPECIAL WAVIER THAT WAS GRANTED,"TEETH,TAIL COLORS AND OVERSIZED TAIL CODES"
EACH WING/CO BIRDS MARKINGS HAS A WAVIER TOO FROM AIRFORCE TO DO THE SPECIAL "PAINT JOBS"(IE TAIL CODES)

IN 91 WHEN THE A-1O'S CAME HOME THE ORDER WAS GIVEN TO REMOVE ALL "KILL MARKINGS" FROM THE A-10'S" BUT AS IN MOST CASES THEY REMOVED IT FROM ALL JETS EXCEPT (THE WING/CO'S PLANE)
THE BEACH KEEP MARKINGS ON SOME,OTHERS DID TOO BUT THE 23RDS JETS EXCEPT THE WING /CO'S WAS LEFT ON THEN REMOVED.

THE THOUGHT WAS TANKS WE'RE TO THE A-10 LIKE AIRCRAFT WE'RE TO FIGHTERS AND TANK KILLS SHOULD BE LEFT ON THE JET AS PART OF ITS HISTORY,LIKE MIG STARS ON F-4'S ETC.....

PLUS WE ALMOST LOST OUR TEETH DURING DESERT SHIELD BECAUSE SOMEONE THOUGHT "THEY COULD SEE THE TEETH FROM THE GROUND",
2 TRAINS OF THOUGHT THERE
1. THE A-10 IS IN EURO-1 CAMMO ,KIND OF STICKS OUT AGAINST BLUE
2. IF THE IRAQI COULD SEE THE TEETH,IT WOULDNT MATTER,HE'S ABOUT TO DIE ANYWAY.

THE LIKE THE WILD WEASELS,AN F-4G LOOKS JUST THAT MORE WICKED WITH THOSE TEETH ON THEM.

NOW I NEVER DID GET TO SEE "OP'S" TAKE OVER MAINTANCE,BUT OP'S WORKED ALONG MAINTANCE AND MAINTANCE WITH OP'S IT WORKED JUST FINE.
GO ON TDY THE "OP'S" HIGHEST RANKING PILOT WAS DET. COMMANDER,THE MAINTANCE OFFICER REPORTED TO HIM.
I WAS ON MAJGEN RENUALTS FIRST OP'S ASSIGNMENT WITH THE 23RD IN NOV 86"SNOWFOX" AT GRANDFORKS AFB, HE WAS A NEW MAJOR BACK THEN.
WE KEPT OVER TEMPING ENGINES ON STARTS BECAUSE ENGLAND TOLD THEM "THEY DIDNT NEED TO MOTOR ENGINES TO START THEM."
-21F AND JETS THAT CAME OUT OF 75F THE DAY BEFORE.
THE FIRST MISSIONS WE'RE ALL CANX DUE TO OVER TEMPS,EXCEPT THE LAST 2 THAT WE MOTORED AND STARTED,NORMAL LIGHT-OFFS.
BEFORE THOSE 2 WE MOTORED ONE JET TO PROVE OUR THEORY,GUESS WHO WAS THE SAP IN THE COCKPIT?(GOOSE)I WAS SCARED ALITTLE BUT IT WORKED.
THE MAJOR ALONG WITH OUR MSGT MADE THE DESICION AGAINST EAFB TO MOTOR THE ENGINES FIRST BEFORE START,NEVER MISSED ANOTHER SORTIE.

SO NO MATTER WHO OWNS WHAT, ITS A JOINT EFFORT,OP'S HAS ALOT OF PULL WHEN IT COMES TO DOORART,THE 74TH AND 75TH 'S OPS HAD IT REMOVED AND PATCHES PUT ON,THE 76TH ON THE OTHER HAND ALONG WITH THE AMU'S COMMANDER SAID "NO" WE'LL KEEP THE ART(OR THE CC'S WERE GOING TO REBEL) AND THE RACE WAS ON FOR DOOR ART,BESIDES THE OLD MAN EVEN GOT HIS DOOR DONE SINCE HIS JET WAS ASSIGNED TO US.

THERE'S WAYS AROUND EVERYTHING,LIKE YOU ALL HAVE SAID "IT DEPENDS ON WHO'S BUCKING FOR A FEATHER IN THEIR CAP" IF IT AINT DOORART ITS,BULIDING COLORS,T-SHIRTS,UNIFORMS ETC.. ALL DEPENDS ON WHO'S IN CHARGE.
DOOR ART WILL NEVER DIE,IT MIGHT HIDE,BUT IT WONT EVER DIE!

GOOSE






Edited by - sgtgoose1 on May 21 2005 7:48 PM

Edited by - sgtgoose1 on May 22 2005 05:02 AM

_________________
\"Live Free Or Die\"

Goose

Good post, right on target!

By the way, a bud of mine sent me this pic of an AC-130...apparently those badasses in AFSOC allow noseart! <img src="http://www.dynamictruth.com/ubb/graemlins/bigguns.gif" border=0>

<img src="http://www.gunships.net/Picture438-2.jpg" border=0>

Cheers! M2

I'll just keep colecting when and where I can.....

Ugly But Well Hung

Nice stick figures on that Spectre. Each one must represent a crowd of protestors.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

_________________
YGBSM !

It does seem the bombers get prefrential treatment. Here are some pics from the recent Shaw Fest.

<img src="http://home.sc.rr.com/thedhodges/B-52.JPG" border=0>
<img src="http://home.sc.rr.com/thedhodges/B-1.JPG" border=0>

Also a pic of one from Pope with my nine year old.
<img src="http://home.sc.rr.com/thedhodges/Tori.JPG" border=0>

Fender
"A woman drove me to drink
and I hadn't even the courtesy to thank her".
W.C. Fields

Edited by - Fenderstrat72 on May 22 2005 10:04 AM

She probably gets her good looks from her mom.

By this time tomorrow I shall have gained either a pearage or Westminster Abbey........Nelson

_________________
YGBSM !

Hawg166- the stick figures most likely represent little hot-spots running around in the dark.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." - Carl Zwanzig

_________________
\"Those who hammer their guns into plows
will plow for those who do not.\"
- Thomas Jefferson